My N64 collection :D *big ass pics....*

[CAPSLOCK]

I will admit that I had a lot of fun with goldeneye and star wars shadow of the empire when they came out. That being said the only games I would pick up and play today are mario kart 64 and smash bros if there are people around having a few beer or something. Time did not treat this console well.

[BlueBMW]

I play through Banjo Kazooie every single year.  Not as big of a fan of Tooie, but there's just something about banjo 1 that I adore.

That said, these also get regular play from me

Mario 64, Waverace 64, Mariokart 64, Star Wars SotE, Mischief Makers, Extreme G, Diddy Kong Racing, WCW/NWO Revenge

[NightWolve]

...one is a massive flop that could never hope to live up to the Silicon Graphics hype or the legacy of its predecessor.

Seriously, we Nintendo fans went from Final Fantasy VI and Super Street Figher to having essentially no real RPGs or 2D fighters. Overnight. That's what it mean to be a Nintendo fan in 1997. You were shit out of luck while all your Saturn and Playstation owning friends had Tengai Makyo, Fatal Fury, Street Figher Zero, and so many hundreds of RPGs its sick. Hudson made quite a few N64 games but...none come to mind as being much good except for the Mario Party series.

Full disclosure: I bought a US N64 day one, loved Mario 64 and I'm one of the biggest fans of Waverace you'll ever find. I'm also quite a fan of Nintendo stuff in general, lots of Mario and stuff around here, no question. Loved the Cube especially. However, the N64 is the worst console they ever made by a mile and a total waste.

Yeah, glad I jumped shipped from Nintendo after SNES and went with Sony and PS1. I do remember all the hype that I was reading with Nintendo's partnering with Silicon Graphics and how great it was gonna be... In the end, I think that I was mainly angry that they were still gonna use carts when I saw from my Turbo Duo how CDs were the future (after Ys Book I&II, Dracula X, CF2, etc.), cost only 3 cents per pressed plastic, plus a couple of bucks for manual and jewel case, etc. We were supposed to see game prices go down, or so we were told given a drastically reduced manufacturing cost per unit.

It seemed like Nintendo would still be screwing us with expensive $25-to-make carts that would never even come close to the storage space of a 650 MB CD, and from what I understood, still screwing the developers/publishers who'd have to buy the carts from them (CD could be pressed at many plants, Nintendo carts mainly by Nintendo)!! I'm not totally sure about all that, but yeah, I think I read articles along those lines in the CD vs. Cart debate. Vaguely remember it like that.

Nintendo had a point with the instant loading that came with a cart, but with faster CD reading drives, it was tolerable and well worth it pro/con-wise. Seems nowadays though with these SD cards, we can move away from optical/laser disc formats and go back to solid state electrical ones as they keep getting bigger and faster in the gigabyte ranges while still being relatively cheap, etc.

[PCEngineHell]

So, considering my reference point (Jaguar, 3DO...but I won't go further off topic...), you'll understand why I'm not an N64 hater.

Carry on....

The 3DO had way more quality titles then the N64 did. Comparing libraries between the two, the gap there is huge as far as how many C+ to A+ titles there was. Off the top of my head the 3DO had:

Crash n Burn
Out of This World
Alone in the Dark
D
Super SF II Turbo
Novastorm
Myst
Panzer General
Return Fire
Pyramid Intruder
Mega Race
Guardian War
Captain Quazar
Policenauts
Samurai Shodown
The Eye of Typhoon (if you're lucky enough to find it)
Primal Rage
Star Control II
Bust A Move
The Incredible Machine
Way of the Warrior
Shockwave 2
Trip'd
Yu Yu Hakusho
Iron Angel 1 & 2
Cannon Fodder
Sailor Moon S
Ultraman Powered
Lost Eden
Royal Pro Wrestling
Lucienne's Quest
AD&D Slayer
Microcosm
Spacehulk
Need for Speed
Star Fighter
Twisted
Starblade
Flashback
Zhadnost: The People's Party
Road Rash
Gex
Strahl
Wing Commander III and Super Wing Commander
Off World Interceptor
Total Eclipse
The Horde
Wolfenstein 3D
Theme Park
Syndicate


I cant even begin to recall that many good to decent games on N64. The N64 did have a few superb games though, and some pretty decent ones. Just not enough though to keep my interest.

[o.pwuaioc]

Of those 3DO games you listed, they either can be found on another system (Road Rash, Gex, Myst) or they're not really good/pale in comparison to N64 exclusives. The N64 is pretty low on my list of consoles (2nd to last if we exclude handhelds), but the 3DO doesn't even warrant an appearance.

[PCEngineHell]

Of those 3DO games you listed, they either can be found on another system (Road Rash, Gex, Myst) or they're not really good/pale in comparison to N64 exclusives. The N64 is pretty low on my list of consoles (2nd to last if we exclude handhelds), but the 3DO doesn't even warrant an appearance.

A lot of those games on 3DO that are on other systems, the other systems got inferior ports. This is pretty common knowledge, so there isn't much point in mentioning that unless you just want to make the Saturn and PS1 look bad. The 3DO had a good mature library that also tended to give gamers a pc like gaming experience. And honestly there is nothing on N64 that can evenly match something like Wing Commander III, Star Control II, Return Fire, Shockwave 2, Road Rash, Need for Speed, Primal Rage, Panzer General, or Super SF2 Turbo. And I was just naming stuff off the top of my head that I owned prior. I could grab a list of all the titles released and tack on even more to the above list.

And when we get down to it, this comparison about game libraries isn't about 3DO, PS1, Saturn, PC, and N64. Its only about comparing the 3DO's total library to the N64's, and which one I'd rather have more, and why. By all accounts the N64 game library should have blown the 3DO's away completely. But it didn't. It didn't even come close. Nintendo was too busy trying to appeal to kids still and the casual uninformed gamers or their parents that bought something because it said "Nintendo" on the box, because Nintendo always meant quality, amarite?

The N64 shined most in its cartoon'ish 3d adventure titles like Super Mario 64 and the Zelda games, which yeah, the 3DO doesn't have, but I also don't like Super Mario 64 or the 3d Zelda titles, so no fucks are given. If those kinda games are what floats your boat, then I'd def not recommend a 3DO. When the N64 was out I was already at a point in my life where I outgrew Mario and wanted something that felt more mature then that or crap like Pokemon Snap. 

Given a majority of the N64 stuff is trash, inferior ports of games on other systems also, choppy FPS titles, or sports games, it leaves very little as far as original compelling content goes, outside of Treasure, RARE, and Nintendo's titles.

And to throw this back at you, just for the sake of argument in favor of a systems merit based on ports being on other systems, most of the good games on N64 not made by Nintendo are done way better on other systems or PC. Rouge Squadron on PC, along with Shadow of the Empire and Episode 1 Racer make the N64 versions look like clown shoes. Quake 1? Better on PC and Saturn. Quake 2? Better on PC. Resident Evil 2, same deal, its on DC, GC, and PC and are worlds better on those other formats.

MK Trilogy? Better on PC and PS1. Biofreaks and WarGods? Better on PC. Gauntlet Legends? Better on DC. MK4? Better on PC and DC. Sf Rush 2049? Better on PC, GC, Xbox, and DC. Ogre Battle? Better on PS1. Starcraft? Better on PC. Vigilante 8 2nd Offense? Better on Dreamcast. Turok 1 and 2? Better on Pc. Hexen? Better on PC. Winback? Better on PS2. Wipeout? Better on PC and PS1. I mean I could go on and on, but you get the idea.

Thankfully the 3DO didn't suffer that kinda fate. The games on it that are on PS1 and Saturn are more often then not better on 3DO.

[PCEngineHell]

Oh, and as Zeta pointed out prior, a lot of the good N64 exclusives made by Nintendo are on better systems now. This makes the N64 even more of a moot point.

[SignOfZeta]

I've played a lot (I worked at a video store that rented them in the mid 90s) of of those 3DO games and feel the Prof is reaching *really* hard on at least half of those.. Most of that stuff kinda relies on the player being really overwhelmed by the amazingness of mid 90s polygons (didn't work on me then, works on almost nobody now) and the ones that don't aren't amazing either. Yu Yu in particular is one of the most hilariously bad fighting games I've ever played. Slightly better than Fight for Life, but nowhere near as good as Ultimate Battle 22 and UB22 is a POS. Guardian War is barely even a game, Strahl is barely worth playing on the Laseractive (and it's way better there), SSFII' was a passable game for the time, but not worth the effort of finding (making, let's be honest) two good controllers in order to play it, especially when that game is on at least 5 other systems and those ports actually have parallax, Sailor Moon is EVEN WORSE than Yu Yu, Primal Rage is a total POS on any system.

Return Fire is fucking GREAT though, and unless it's been released somewhere else recently the 3DO version is still the best. I would buy a 3DO for Return Fire (and expansion) before I bought a N64 for anything so...I guess the 3DO wins!?!

God the N64 sucked. Worse than 3DO? That can't be right, can it?

If so, does that mean the N64 belongs in the dusty-ass unholy trinity of Jaguar/CDi/3DO swap meet crapola?

Now it's an unholy quadrangle?

[CrackTiger]

Of those 3DO games you listed, they either can be found on another system (Road Rash, Gex, Myst) or they're not really good/pale in comparison to N64 exclusives. The N64 is pretty low on my list of consoles (2nd to last if we exclude handhelds), but the 3DO doesn't even warrant an appearance.

I prefer the controls and camera of Mario 64 DS and consider it the definitive version. The Gamecube version(s) of the 64 Zeldas were supposed to be the best at the time. Even if you don't count Virtual Console type releases, the N64's exclusives quickly get erased if you do the same for 3DO. I don't look at libraries that way though. I just judge each game for what it is.

For me SSFIIX is more important than anything on N64 and I don't even like the Turbo versions of the series. Lucienne's Quest and Policenauts also cater to my tastes more than what actually became a style than individual genre entries: "N64-style" games.

The combined bottlenecks of the hardware and main game format made N64 games feel predictable and familiar, regardless of genre, compared to the feeling variety in the 3DO, PSX and Saturn libraries.

[SamIAm]

If you have an Everdrive, I seriously encourage you to play Bangai-O on N64. The Dreamcast version may be prettier, as well as a little more forgiving in certain respects. However, the N64 controller is better for the game, and the simpler graphics and heavier slowdown during the most extreme moments give the game an appropriately old-school charm. By coincidence, I've been re-playing this one for the past couple of weeks, and enjoying myself capitally.

[o.pwuaioc]

I'm with SignofZeta about most of those 3DO games mentioned.

MK Trilogy? Better on PC and PS1. Biofreaks and WarGods? Better on PC. Gauntlet Legends? Better on DC. MK4? Better on PC and DC. Sf Rush 2049? Better on PC, GC, Xbox, and DC. Ogre Battle? Better on PS1. Starcraft? Better on PC. Vigilante 8 2nd Offense? Better on Dreamcast. Turok 1 and 2? Better on Pc. Hexen? Better on PC. Winback? Better on PS2. Wipeout? Better on PC and PS1. I mean I could go on and on, but you get the idea.

The only one of those games I would recommend anyone for the N64 is Ogre Battle, which, by the way, is an exclusive. Ogre Battle on the PS1 is a totally different game from Ogre Battle 64. They don't even have the same gameplay.

Thankfully the 3DO didn't suffer that kinda fate. The games on it that are on PS1 and Saturn are more often then not better on 3DO.

Add in all the way better PS1 and Saturn games, and 3DO still is redundant. The rest that you mentioned are very lackluster and boring. I see though what you're going to respond with if any objections are raised, because it's ultimately going to come down to taste. You like the games you mentioned, I presume, but they make me yawn. The good N64 games do the opposite for me, but you say you don't like them. Though since we're listing games, here are games exclusive to the N64 that sell the system imo (in alphabetical order only):

Blast Corps
Doom 64
GoldenEye 007
Mischief Makers
Ogre Battle 64
Perfect Dark
Rakugakids
Robotron 64
Rush 2: Extreme Racing USA
Star Fox 64


Edit: A word or two.

[PCEngineHell]

stuff...

Blast Corps
Doom 64
GoldenEye 007
Mischief Makers
Ogre Battle 64
Perfect Dark
Rakugakids
Robotron 64
Rush 2: Extreme Racing USA
Star Fox 64

Ogre Battle on PS1 is a better Ogre Battle then the 64 one. Ogre Battle wears thinner and thinner though from system to system. The same idea is used over and over and gets less innovative as they go, just stealing off of other games. Rush 2 just blows. Its a choppy low res mess. It was an insult to die hard arcade Rush players. Doom 64 is a dark mess. I know this because we have it here. Regardless of game settings, to see anything clearly you have to turn the brightness on your monitor up way past recommended calibration settings. I really love Doom, but I did not enjoy the experience that the N64 Doom presented. Id rather just play the PS1 Dooms, or stick to my PC and play them in high res.

On a side note, if anyone wants to know why Doom on 3DO was so terrible, its because the programmer was only given 10 weeks to get it running. Rebecca Heineman
is the programmer.  You can find a discussion about it here in the comments:

Robotron 64 is meh. Just people trying to cash in on the Jeff Minter look and style. Also, its on PS1 and PC, see Robotron X.  Rakugakids, just meh. I get what Konami was trying to do with it, but meh. Super Smash Bros is a much better game. Everything else you listed basically leans back to what I said prior, Rare, Treasure, and Nintendo titles. Basically the N64's holy trinity, and to be honest, the Rare FPS games are just too choppy for me to enjoy. If I just had to play a FPS on N64, I'd rather play Quake 1 or 2.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I came here for big ass pictures, and all I got was N64 shit.

where are the big ass pictures.

[o.pwuaioc]

Yeah, as I said, it comes down to tastes. I absolutely loved Doom 64 and I still think that Ogre Battle 64 is far better than any other Ogre Battle out there, in fact, ranking it at one of the best SRPGs of all time. You can't force someone to like what they don't, though. 

[PCEngineHell]

You can't force someone to like what they don't, though. 

Pfft yes you can. The Nazi regime did it all the time.

[EvilEvoIX]

I am a big fan for Robotron on the N64 but that is because that is my favorite classic arcade game.  The PS1 Version does indeed have better music and the dual shock really makes it easier to play.


I like the N64 a lot but have only played about 2 games on it, but those games had easily the greatest replay value, Bond 4-player gave me years of entertainment.  That alone is worth owning the consoles.  Mario 64 defined a genre that still sets the standard today.  Mario Kart 64 is still the best Mario Kart made.  Mario Tennis was great as well.  Less great games than a PS1, absolutely, but the good games had staying power.  Going to work on 4-Player Gauntlet next.

[SignOfZeta]

I am a big fan for Robotron on the N64 but that is because that is my favorite classic arcade game.  The PS1 Version does indeed have better music and the dual shock really makes it easier to play.


I like the N64 a lot but have only played about 2 games on it, but those games had easily the greatest replay value, Bond 4-player gave me years of entertainment.  That alone is worth owning the consoles.  Mario 64 defined a genre that still sets the standard today.  Mario Kart 64 is still the best Mario Kart made.  Mario Tennis was great as well.  Less great games than a PS1, absolutely, but the good games had staying power.  Going to work on 4-Player Gauntlet next.

Well, first off, MK64 is the game that made me sell my N64. I was a HUUUUGEE fan of Super Mario Kart. SMK was the first versus driving game on a console that was actually worth playing. The more you drove the better you got. People who were dedicated got better and scrubs got completely fucking crushed. MK64 decided to turn the series into a T-ball with a 3 run rule. Its for pussies who don't want skill to result in victory. MK64 introduced something similar to what Sega called "boost" (the leader is slowed, the losers's speed is increased) and the satanic crime that is known as The Blue Shell. Also, tripple shells, because people who can't shoot deserve more ammo. It also made the tracks so wide that anything approaching racing skill or cornering technique was rendered useless. These were replaced with that idiotic, controller destroying, wiggle boost mechanism. MK64 basically took the best racing game ever made and made it...people don't use this term very often anymore for good reason but...its special ed. It really is. Its like Super Mario Kart was remade for people with an IQ of 70. And hey, those people need games too and it sold well, but for me it was a big let down. The only reason why I'm able to function in society today is because of the bone they threw me in the shape of Mario Kart Super Circuit (GBA) which was even better than the original and had the SNES tracks in it!

So, to me the game was the nail in the coffin of N64, but to a bunch of whiny bitches that all want a turn at wining without actually working for it, its a holy relic. I suppose I can understand that, if not totally disagree with it. HOWEVER, have you actually played the new MKs? MK8 in particular? I ask because gameplay-wise they are pretty much all identical, but 8 has online play and very good graphics. Not only does it lack fog (MK64 taking place in either the Scottish highlands or central London, not sure) but the tracks are like F Zero GC times 10. If you like all that random victory shit from 64, I can't see why you wouldn't like Double Dash, 7, or 8 a fuck of a lot more. Probably because you haven't played any of this shit since you were 9.

Case in point, Goldeneye. It was much better than that POS movie, but why this game was so popular I'll never know. I guess people with far more advanced visual cortexes tend to gravitate to that whole era of 4 player split screen fps, but personally I hate all fps and ones running at a fourth of 480i resolution are, to me, unplayable. I just can't see shit. And to play it with that crap controller? Again, for people who really wanted to mow down some dudes and didn't have a PC (where at the time everyone got their own display with a minimum of 640x480 if not 1280x1024) I guess its better than nothing, but does it really make the machine "worth owning" today? Because of a memory or because of the actual thing? How many people who love love love Goldeneye have actually played it in the last decade? And if you haven't played it in the last decade, why is it worth owning? Are you keeping it around for the same reason I keep my Saturn keyboard and mouse, or is there actually a use for this brown foggy garbage?

Brown and foggy...that's the N64 right there. Its also grey and blurry at times, but usually brown and foggy.

Oh, also, they fucked up Yoshi twice as bad as they fuct Kart. Mario Kart 64 wasn't a bad game, it was just a completely different game for different people. Yoshi's Story was just lame though. Lame lame lame. It might have been a sequel to Gex or Zool. Island is my favorite platformer, probably tied with Astro Boy (GBA) but I don't think too many people even remember Yoshi's Story.

[BlueBMW]

Zeta has taken my childhood and dropped a big fat stinky one on it   It smells... kind of bad.

Oh well   I still like Goldeneye and MK64  But I do agree... how did we play that 4 player goldeneye back in the day on a small ass TV... I guess we were 12 and didnt care.

[SignOfZeta]

Zeta has taken my childhood and dropped a big fat stinky one on it   It smells... kind of bad.

Oh well   I still like Goldeneye and MK64  But I do agree... how did we play that 4 player goldeneye back in the day on a small ass TV... I guess we were 12 and didnt care.

I WAS 24 YOU PUNKS!!!

[BlueBMW]

I guess in 1997 I was 13...  so yeah Goldeneye was the tits back then.

Confession time though....  I had an N64 and maybe 7 or so games back then... but then sometime in 1998 I traded it all in to EB and got a PS1 with Croc, Ace Combat 2 and Jet Moto...  True story.  Then I got FF7 and was happy again.

[SignOfZeta]

I traded my N64 for a Saturn, which was considered NUTS back then. I've been happy ever since.

[VestCunt]

It's not a matter of being a "hater", it's about having personal standards and not paying good money to fill your house with total fucking garbage. 

N64 collecting is like drinking or smoking: total waste of money, but kinda fun. And it doesn't kill you.

I sobered up ten years ago and immediately diverted all discretionary income to filling my house with useless video games and AD&D books. Haven't looked back since.

[VestCunt]

I guess in 1997 I was 13...  so yeah Goldeneye was the tits back then.

It's just "tits," not "the tits."

The real reason Goldeye sucks isn't because it's dated, it's because Perfect Dark is better. I still play that shit. I hate modern consoles and computers have always been too addictive. Sure, there was no comparison between N64 Goldeneye and a LAN Quake game bitd, but I prefer the casual environment of friends crowded around a TV. Playing Quake for six hours straight without a bathroom break until my hands cramped up was fun, but not conducive to a healthy life.

[MrFlutterPie]

 I loved Goldeneye but I always though Perfect Dark was far superior.  It just took the Goldeneye formula and turbo charged it with better everything.

I remember seeing how the alien weapons reloaded the first time and it just blew my mind.  That games was freaking amazing!!!

[NightWolve]

You had all that quiet time with Zeta where we wondered if he'd return to PCEFX, and now he's unstoppable! ;)

[EvilEvoIX]

I am a big fan for Robotron on the N64 but that is because that is my favorite classic arcade game.  The PS1 Version does indeed have better music and the dual shock really makes it easier to play.


I like the N64 a lot but have only played about 2 games on it, but those games had easily the greatest replay value, Bond 4-player gave me years of entertainment.  That alone is worth owning the consoles.  Mario 64 defined a genre that still sets the standard today.  Mario Kart 64 is still the best Mario Kart made.  Mario Tennis was great as well.  Less great games than a PS1, absolutely, but the good games had staying power.  Going to work on 4-Player Gauntlet next.

Well, first off, MK64 is the game that made me sell my N64. I was a HUUUUGEE fan of Super Mario Kart. SMK was the first versus driving game on a console that was actually worth playing. The more you drove the better you got. People who were dedicated got better and scrubs got completely fucking crushed. MK64 decided to turn the series into a T-ball with a 3 run rule. Its for pussies who don't want skill to result in victory. MK64 introduced something similar to what Sega called "boost" (the leader is slowed, the losers's speed is increased) and the satanic crime that is known as The Blue Shell. Also, tripple shells, because people who can't shoot deserve more ammo. It also made the tracks so wide that anything approaching racing skill or cornering technique was rendered useless. These were replaced with that idiotic, controller destroying, wiggle boost mechanism. MK64 basically took the best racing game ever made and made it...people don't use this term very often anymore for good reason but...its special ed. It really is. Its like Super Mario Kart was remade for people with an IQ of 70. And hey, those people need games too and it sold well, but for me it was a big let down. The only reason why I'm able to function in society today is because of the bone they threw me in the shape of Mario Kart Super Circuit (GBA) which was even better than the original and had the SNES tracks in it!

So, to me the game was the nail in the coffin of N64, but to a bunch of whiny bitches that all want a turn at wining without actually working for it, its a holy relic. I suppose I can understand that, if not totally disagree with it. HOWEVER, have you actually played the new MKs? MK8 in particular? I ask because gameplay-wise they are pretty much all identical, but 8 has online play and very good graphics. Not only does it lack fog (MK64 taking place in either the Scottish highlands or central London, not sure) but the tracks are like F Zero GC times 10. If you like all that random victory shit from 64, I can't see why you wouldn't like Double Dash, 7, or 8 a fuck of a lot more. Probably because you haven't played any of this shit since you were 9.

Case in point, Goldeneye. It was much better than that POS movie, but why this game was so popular I'll never know. I guess people with far more advanced visual cortexes tend to gravitate to that whole era of 4 player split screen fps, but personally I hate all fps and ones running at a fourth of 480i resolution are, to me, unplayable. I just can't see shit. And to play it with that crap controller? Again, for people who really wanted to mow down some dudes and didn't have a PC (where at the time everyone got their own display with a minimum of 640x480 if not 1280x1024) I guess its better than nothing, but does it really make the machine "worth owning" today? Because of a memory or because of the actual thing? How many people who love love love Goldeneye have actually played it in the last decade? And if you haven't played it in the last decade, why is it worth owning? Are you keeping it around for the same reason I keep my Saturn keyboard and mouse, or is there actually a use for this brown foggy garbage?

Brown and foggy...that's the N64 right there. Its also grey and blurry at times, but usually brown and foggy.

Oh, also, they fucked up Yoshi twice as bad as they fuct Kart. Mario Kart 64 wasn't a bad game, it was just a completely different game for different people. Yoshi's Story was just lame though. Lame lame lame. It might have been a sequel to Gex or Zool. Island is my favorite platformer, probably tied with Astro Boy (GBA) but I don't think too many people even remember Yoshi's Story.

I think you are being a little harsh on Mario Kart but if your argument is that Games are becoming more inclusive and easier with every generation I cannot fault that.  I have Maro Kart Double Dash and I do like it very much.  Golden eye was a masterpiece.  Try beating it on 007 mode, especially the silo.  I like the N64, it was very different for it's time and I liked it.

[SignOfZeta]

Super Mario Kart was pretty inclusive. It sold nine million damned copies and was loved by everyone.

Losing is not an exclusionary concept. The losers are part of the game too. What's been excluded is skill.

[BlueBMW]

Some of my friends and I still get together to play Mario Kart 64.  We have all been playing since it came out so we're all pretty good.  We give each other great competition.  Getting good at pulling off mini turbos seems to be what separates the men from the boys on that one.  Yeah blue shells are stupid, lightning bolts when activated at just the right time can be brutal but overall we still love to play.

Mariokart 8 is awesome in my opinion.  It took me a little while to get used to the crazy flashy graphics and high speed everything was going at but after I got used to it I really started to enjoy it.  My biggest gripe was how they gimped the battle mode...  That was a big disappointment.

[esteban]

Super Mario Kart was pretty inclusive. It sold nine million damned copies and was loved by everyone.

Losing is not an exclusionary concept. The losers are part of the game too. What's been excluded is skill.

OK, so I only played a little of Mario Kart 64 back when it was released.

So, just to clarify, you are saying that MK64 (and others to follow), was ruined by attempts to "level the playing field" between skilled vs. non-skilled players:

(0) first place cannot gain as significant a lead since 1st place is artificially handicapped/slowed-down
(1) wider tracks (easier for non-skilled)
(2) power-ups are too powerful, especially in the hands of idiots (blue shell, for example, allows non-skilled to knock out first place, etc.)

Just to play devil's advocate, you could argue that the skilled player simply has MORE challenges, but these are actually NOT "increased driving skill" (as you would expect from a pure racing game), but CHALLENGES have shifted away from pure driving skills to STRATEGY/TACTICS for dealing with BLUE SHELL, and TRIPLE-SHELLS, and  RIDING THE BULLET and SQUID INK OBSTRUCTING VIEW and SQUASHING OPPONENTS and LIGHTNING STORM...

I would say that, in the interest of making the game more enjoyable as a "multi-player experience" or a "party game", the emphasis has shifted away from pure driving skill (which, let's be honest, can be incredibly boring when (a) you suck and (b) folks are lapping you and (3) OUTCOMES ARE ENTIRELY TOO PREDICTABLE).

I guess, based on what you said, MarioKart64 represented the shift to "making the game less predictable" by allowing players to F*CK with one another, which, I submit, makes the game better and more enjoyable as a RACE  + CRASH DERBY...

I agree, however, that Nintendo should have, at the very least, offered folks the option to turn on/turn off different  rules/conditions/power-ups (so, for example, you would never deal with the blue shell if you didn't want to).

The problem, of course, is that this sort of granularity would complicate on-line racing (since only folks who chose your exact same configuration would be eligible for a race)...but, really, as long as a game allowed you to save different "profiles", you would not have to constantly fiddle around with the customization options.



Mario Kart does not have to be a "pure racing simulation"...it has lessened pure driving skill requirements and introduced the need to strategize for all the different things your opponents can do to you...in fact, I will submit that COMBATTING THE BLUE SHELL is fun when there are more ways to counteract it (I have played Wii version a lot and there are a bunch of ways, some require crazy timing skills, to defeat blue shell). I honestly can't remember how to defeat blue shell in MK64, or if it is a feasible strategy vs. pure luck.

I'm fine with this, because I think Mario Kart's raison d'être is different than that of Gran Tourismo ...

BUT NINTENDO SHOULD STOP BEING LAZY and offer granular customization for folks! I don't really disagree with your critique...I would love to be able to customize the game.

[SignOfZeta]

Newer MKs do have the option to turn off items.

As for the shift in skill TYPES (more about item management, less about racing) yes, that's most of what happened, and I undertand that, but that's not all of it. First place should already have thier hands full with just being in first and dealing with the other karters. In MK64 he also gets the slowest kart (since everyone else has boost) and a much shitier item selection. First place gets green shells, every other place gets triple reds, blues, and lightning bolts.

The WORST place to be in MK64 is in the lead, and what kind of a fucked up racing game is that?

(A racing game for slow shitty racers)

[esteban]

Newer MKs do have the option to turn off items.

As for the shift in skill TYPES (more about item management, less about racing) yes, that's most of what happened, and I undertand that, but that's not all of it. First place should already have thier hands full with just being in first and dealing with the other karters. In MK64 he also gets the slowest kart (since everyone else has boost) and a much shitier item selection. First place gets green shells, every other place gets triple reds, blues, and lightning bolts.

The WORST place to be in MK64 is in the lead, and what kind of a fucked up racing game is that?

(A racing game for slow shitty racers)

Gotcha...so the balance is really skewed toward lesser-skilled players in MK64...and instead of feeling exhilarated/accomplished upon claiming 1st place, it simply introduces a new set of frustrations...

I am really curious about this now.

I wonder if my brother still has his N64? I want to play MK64 now! For real. My daughter, who is 11, would have fun comparing it to the Wii version (we haven't tried the DS versions, although she has a DS)...

NOT THAT MOTO ROADER can even compare to the fine experience of MK...but there were two approaches to playing Moto Roader: (1) legit racing skills + avoid opponents' attacks VS.  (2) no racing skills required, instead, troll other racers with weapons (especially at the end of the race).

I will admit that this added a lot of damn fun to the game. Spamming missiles/bombs at the end of a race to knock out an opponent just prior to the finish line felt AWESOME. And this is from a person (me) who much prefers that winners are determined by legit skills, not random B.S. luck... a common LAME tactic in Moto Roader, for example, was exploiting the fact that the car in LAST PLACE would get "warped forward" when falling behind...blowing-up an opponent + braking (to warp forward) in final stretch = wacky shenanigans at finish line.

YOU SEE? I brought MK64 conversation back to OBEY.