Is Duo's CD driver supposed to load this slow?

[Bekic]

Atfter every single level, 5-10 seconds? DD2 especially felt like it was taking forever while Cstöevania: Rondo of Blood somewhat less but stilll pretty long. All the cutscenes and music work as they're supposed and the caps have been recently changed so i don't that's the issue.

[esteban]

The load times vary by game + condition of drive.

Let's assume your drive is in decent working order...you will see a range of load times, depending upon the game. The only way to compare load times is to (1) compare the same game at precisely the same moments and (2) to measure things precisely with a stopwatch. Otherwise, your perception of time can be wildly inaccurate.

[Bekic]

What about your loadtimes, does it happen on some games that it takes as long as mine?

[Bekic]

2-3 seconds tops. None.

[Gredler]

2-3 seconds tops. None.

Is that what you expect, or the result? I haven't played a Turbo CD or PCE-CD but my Sega CD always had load times, and my Saturn, and my PS1. The GD and DVD drives barely improved that. Most disc based games today have load times too. N64 sounds like what you're looking for, Nintendo made it especially to counter this issue

[SignOfZeta]

In general I find PCE load times to be far more tolerable than, for example, a Playstation 1, 2, 3 or Portable.

There are good games for load time and bad ones, but an average game usually needs no more than 2 seconds plus seek time. The worst ones are anything with the Arcade Card. Filling up the thimble sized amount of RAM in the CDROM2 or SuperCDROM2 shouldn't take very long. I don't know WTF "DD" is but Dracula X should be only a couple of seconds. If it's longer than this, especially if it's inconsistently longer, you are probably having read issues.

If I were to allow my prejudices to speak for me, which I occaionally do, I'd suspect you are playing CDRs and your Duo needs glasses.

[SignOfZeta]

maybe play one of those laser cleaner discs with the brush on it?

Don't do that.

[NecroPhile]

I agree it sounds like you're using CDRs.  If so, try a different (better) brand, burn slower, adjust the pots, or resign yourself to living with a system that won't play CDRs at all.

[GohanX]

That's my thinking too. The DD2 isos floating around the net load super slow probably because they are imperfect copies. Same with Drac X, a lot of bad isos out there.

[SignOfZeta]

CF2 is one of the slowest loading CDROM2 games.

[SignOfZeta]

I've been meaning to do that for about 15 years now.

That's my thinking too. The DD2 isos floating around the net load super slow probably because they are imperfect copies. Same with Drac X, a lot of bad isos out there.

Seriously, what is "DD" or "DD2"? Didn't you punks go to school? Abreviations are fine, but the first time you use the thing you want to abbreviate, use the entire thing. Abreviate as much as you want afterwards. In legal matters this is known as "letting people know what the fuck (WTF) you are talking about."

Regardless, there is really no reason for bad images of PCE games to continue to circulate. Those should have been weeded out years ago. Learn how to pirate shit, if this is the case. I wouldn't assume it was a bad image though, it's most likely a bad burn combined with a very tired drive manufactured before the existence of the CDR as we now know it.

[GohanX]

Did you not know exactly what I was talking about? I don't feel the need to spout verbal diarrhea when I'm making a quick post in my phone at lunch.

[esteban]

I've been meaning to do that for about 15 years now.

That's my thinking too. The DD2 isos floating around the net load super slow probably because they are imperfect copies. Same with Drac X, a lot of bad isos out there.

Seriously, what is "DD" or "DD2"? Didn't you punks go to school? Abreviations are fine, but the first time you use the thing you want to abbreviate, use the entire thing. Abreviate as much as you want afterwards. In legal matters this is known as "letting people know what the fuck (WTF) you are talking about."

Regardless, there is really no reason for bad images of PCE games to continue to circulate. Those should have been weeded out years ago. Learn how to pirate shit, if this is the case. I wouldn't assume it was a bad image though, it's most likely a bad burn combined with a very tired drive manufactured before the existence of the CDR as we now know it.

Double Dungeons 2
Dragon Double 2
Dangerous Liasons 2
Double Dragon II
Dubble Bubble

[wildfruit]

Double dribble?

[seieienbu]

Double dribble?

No, but the sequel would count.

[Bekic]

I've been meaning to do that for about 15 years now.

That's my thinking too. The DD2 isos floating around the net load super slow probably because they are imperfect copies. Same with Drac X, a lot of bad isos out there.

Seriously, what is "DD" or "DD2"? Didn't you punks go to school? Abreviations are fine, but the first time you use the thing you want to abbreviate, use the entire thing. Abreviate as much as you want afterwards. In legal matters this is known as "letting people know what the fuck (WTF) you are talking about."

Regardless, there is really no reason for bad images of PCE games to continue to circulate. Those should have been weeded out years ago. Learn how to pirate shit, if this is the case. I wouldn't assume it was a bad image though, it's most likely a bad burn combined with a very tired drive manufactured before the existence of the CDR as we now know it.

It's Double Dragon 2 man, Jesus Christ. Granted the game is not as profilic on the PCE-CD as the NES versions but still.

The games are original and in immaculate condition so it can't be that but whenever that black screens appears and i hear that buzzing sound from the reader i'm bugging the fuck out and expecting the worst (that it won't start at all).

[bob]

/games/troll2.jpg[/img]

[ClodBusted]

Galam, you make me smile.

[ccovell]

Seriously, what is "DD" or "DD2"? Didn't you punks go to school? Abreviations are fine, but the first time you use the thing you want to abbreviate, use the entire thing.

Hear hear!  For a while I thought he was talking about the legendary adult film "Dwarf Dongs 2" and maybe was posting on the wrong board.

[NightWolve]

That's my thinking too. The DD2 isos floating around the net load super slow probably because they are imperfect copies. Same with Drac X, a lot of bad isos out there.

ISO/WAV/CUE image file sets of PCE/TG CD games that have bad/altered TOCs because MP3 decoding creates wave files with different file sizes than the originals causes crashes, lip syncing issues, audio tracks starting at later or earlier points, etc. I solved this problem years ago actually with an app called TocFixer, found here.

If you wanna know if the TOC is bad/altered, use MagicEngine and see if it detects the full name of the videogame. If your CD-R or disc image of say Ys IV is detected as "Ys IV - The Dawn of Ys (J)" then the TOC is proper. If all MagicEngine shows you is "PCECD" then it indicates the TOC is bad/altered/unoriginal which will cause problems with most games. If you only have the CD-R, you'd have to use TurboRip to rip to ISO/WAV/CUE, run TocFixer on the file set, then burn it back as a solution.

Anyway, since he stated these are original CD-ROMs, it was never poor CD-R brands, etc. That leaves the laser assembly I guess. I'd try relubricating the slider pole before ever attempting full replacement. The caps may have been replaced, but was the 20 year-old grease on the slider pole refreshed ? Usually though the known problem that causes is limited to audio tracks skipping, ceasing play and not resuming till the next event in the game forces another track to play. That's because the laser has lost agility given the dried-up grease. So, I'd try that first. Next thing to try is maybe an expert tweaking of the 3 CD related pots. There are PCEFX guides here on how to do that, but it's risky for a novice.

[Gentlegamer]

I take it TocFixer won't work on .cue/.iso with no .wav files.

There's a source for images that have all the games in that format. I tried playing Cosmic Fantasy 2 and the audio tracks are all out of wack.

[SignOfZeta]

Did you not know exactly what I was talking about? I don't feel the need to spout verbal diarrhea when I'm making a quick post in my phone at lunch.

I genuinely did not know what you were talking about. It was trying to figure out how you got a CD version of Double Dungeons. Of course I could have found an alphabetical list of PCE games and found it, but I've grown tired of having to do a Wiki search between every post. I'd rather just have a conversation.

Regardless, it is not "verbal diarrhea" to spell out the full name of something once. Technically, it's not verbal at all, but regardless, nobody is going to be bored to death because this thread is so excessively lengthy that it actually contains the entire name of of the game once.

[graffias79]

I take it TocFixer won't work on .cue/.iso with no .wav files.

There's a source for images that have all the games in that format. I tried playing Cosmic Fantasy 2 and the audio tracks are all out of wack.

I think from what he said you could burn it to disc then rip it back with TurboRip and then run the TocFixer program.

[NightWolve]

I take it TocFixer won't work on .cue/.iso with no .wav files.

There's a source for images that have all the games in that format. I tried playing Cosmic Fantasy 2 and the audio tracks are all out of wack.

I think you mean that they're in BIN/CUE format, if not, that was wrong of them to rename the BIN to ISO, but yeah, this is not a problem either.

1) Mount the CUE file with a virtual CD/DVD emulator like Alcohol 52%/Daemon Tools, etc.
2) Run TurboRip and point it to the virtual CD drive and rip it normally.
3) That'll yield you a full ISO/WAV/CUE image file set and then you can run TocFixer on it.
4) Burn the CUE file of that new image file set, and you're ready to go!

To be sure that the TOC is damaged, try using an emulator like MagicEngine and seeing if it detects the name of the game like I mentioned earlier. If it just shows you "PCECD" then in fact the TOC is altered due to MP3 encoding.

The history of the problems caused by MP3 encoding is because when you decode them back to a full WAV file, the original file size cannot be restored, it's close, but not exact. OGG solves this and if it had been used instead, all those problems would've been avoided. The only drawback is for us audiophiles that know some minor audio quality is lost with lossy encoding schemes such as MP3/OGG, but the amount of compression was too tempting and that's why they were used.

[technozombie]

When I was messing with xak3 I think that imgburn ripped it as cue/iso which I thought was strange. I'll verify that this evening when I get home from work.

[Gentlegamer]

It's definitely in .bin/.iso, though that may just be a renamed .bin file. I found another source that has the images in .cue/.bin, so that makes sense.

I had used Magic Engine to check, and it's definitely not detecting the proper format. I'll try "reverse ripping" it and see how it works.

Edit: TurboRip is saying the mounted image isn't a PCE image.

[NightWolve]

I had used Magic Engine to check, and it's definitely not detecting the proper format. I'll try "reverse ripping" it and see how it works.

Yeah, a MP3 mess, so that's your problem and pretty terrible... What happened was this: the image file set was once like ~60 Megs in ISO/MP3/CUE form prepared for Internet distribution, somebody downloaded that archive, decoded the MP3s back to WAV, burned the CUE file to a CD-R, ripped the CD-R back to full BIN/CUE form (so now it's back to ~600 Megs), and finally, that was then zipped and uploaded to the Internet, passed off as a good "1:1" original rip...

There is actually a way to analyze a wave file and see if it's been the victim of MP3 encoding/decoding, but anyhow, you get the idea of what happened here.

[Gentlegamer]

TurboRip is saying the image isn't a PCE image.

I double checked with Magic Engine and Ootake, ME says "PCE CD" and will boot the image, Ootake shows it as "Unknown Title" with a number string but still boots.

I'm guessing it's been ripped, re-ripped, so it's all out of wack.

[NightWolve]

Right, TurboRip has the same TOC database as MagicEngine and Ootake. But, you know what game it is. Rip it to ISO/WAV/CUE with TurboRip, run TocFixer, select the game title that you know it is, browse the file set, pick a file, click Repair, and it'll resize the files properly so when you burn the CUE back to a new CD-R it will be recognized properly as well as solve sync issues caused by a bad TOC - that's the "fixing" process.

[Gentlegamer]

TurboRip

Right, TurboRip has the same TOC database as MagicEngine and Ootake. But, you know what game it is. Rip it to ISO/WAV/CUE with TurboRip, run TocFixer, select the game title that you know it is, browse the file set, pick a file, click Repair, and it'll resize the files properly so when you burn the CUE back to a new CD-R it will be recognized properly as well as solve sync issues caused by a bad TOC - that's the "fixing" process.

TurboRip keeps saying "a valid PCE game disc was not detected!" so I can't get the ISO/WAV/CUE to run TocFixer on.

The image will boot in both ME and Ootake.

[NightWolve]

Uh, that's not how it works cause it can rip any audio disc or even games from other systems.

That message is normally followed by a prompt for a title:

"No base filename for the disc was specified at the prompt and the disc could"
"not be identified as a valid PC Engine/TurboGrafx-16 CD-ROM game."
"Enter a filename now:> "

Make sure you open a Command Prompt instance from "Programs" -> "Accessories" and then CD all the way to the folder where you have TurboRip in - don't double click on TurboRip via Explorer to run it.

Also, just in case, make sure you have the latest version - linky.

[Gentlegamer]

Uh, that's not how it works cause it can rip any audio disc or even games from other systems.

That message is normally followed by a prompt for a title:

"No base filename for the disc was specified at the prompt and the disc could"
"not be identified as a valid PC Engine/TurboGrafx-16 CD-ROM game."
"Enter a filename now:> "

Make sure you open a Command Prompt instance from "Programs" -> "Accessories" and then CD all the way to the folder where you have TurboRip in - don't double click on TurboRip via Explorer to run it.

Also, just in case, make sure you have the latest version - linky.

The "Enter Filename" prompt was tripping me up, I just entered "Cosmic Fantasy 2" and it went to work. Attempting to apply TocFixer now.

[Gentlegamer]

Now I have 2 .cue files, and neither will mount now. ugh

Edit: retried with Daemon Tools... IT WORKS NOW!

ME and Ootake detect the correct game, the audio is in synch, perfect.

[NightWolve]

[Bernie]

When I was messing with xak3 I think that imgburn ripped it as cue/iso which I thought was strange. I'll verify that this evening when I get home from work.

Unless you have messed with the setting, ImgBurn will rip  a PCE CD as bin/cue.

[Gentlegamer]

Now I need to recheck all the games I've burned to make sure they are 1:1 so I don't potentially damage my Duo-R.

[EvilEvoIX]

Load times?  Go play King of Fighters 99 on the Neo Geo CD and come back to me.  That game had some LOAD TIMES.  5-10 seconds is a treat in comparison.

[VenomMacbeth]

My only two CD games, Exile and Kaze Kiri have fairly long load times, anywhere from 5-10 seconds every time on my Duo.  That normal? Lol

[Arbitern1]

Load times?  Go play King of Fighters 99 on the Neo Geo CD and come back to me.  That game had some LOAD TIMES.  5-10 seconds is a treat in comparison. 

Pulstar is pretty horrible too. On my Neo CDZ it is almost impossible to play any of the late fighters. I can't even imagine the regular Neo CD.

[Bekic]

It may be time for an update. The time it takes for Rondo of Blood isn't 5 seconds but apparently 7, altough consistent. However once or twice it has happened to me that the screen freezes altogether and i have to start all over.