PC Engine on par technically with SNES / Genesis ?

T2KFreeker · 08/24/2006, 07:10 PM

Quote from: CrackTiger
Quote from: T2KFreekerGoing by certain theories that have been thrown around for a long time, I have such a hard tinme taking anything that any videogame magazine or corpoately sponsored videogam web site has to say. I am one of those people that looks at what limitations that a system may have and try to see the amazing things that it does, and this can get hard, especially when you are a fan of the underdog systems. Alot of the people I know talk so much shit about perfectly good systems like the Atari Jaguar, 32-X, and Saturn, I still don't see the point. Each of the systems mentioned has awesome games that take advantage of what the hardware can do, and each has been "Tricked" into doing siome amazing stff.
Example; Ever seen Rayman on the Jaguar? Blows both the Playstation and Saturn versions out of the water. The 32-X actually has some of the nicest games I've seen from that generation of gaming, right at the tail end of the death of 16 bit, it still was an awesome little piece of Hardware that was never really pushed, and I still think that it is sad.
As far as the Turbo Grafx/Duo/PCE, this system just has some of the most amazing games ever made. It may not have the most colors on screen, or all the junk that the SNES has, or "Blast Processing" like the Genesis, but it does what it is supposed to do, and does it well. It plays games, and that was what it was supposed to do. NEC was able to revolutionize gaming as a whole so much with one system. I remember when everyone in the industry was laughing at them for using the CD Rom on their machine. Well, we know where that went. nThat right there is a huge factor to look at when looking at this system. Even though the first batch of games wasn't the best in the world, look at later releases like Shape Shifter, Y's, Shadow Of The Beast, and God help us, Beyond Shadowgate. These are amazing examples of games that were just awesome as hell. Splatterhouse on the PC Engine is still far better than either of the Genesis games, and then we have Bonk, great stuff. I don't know about you all, but I HATED Bonk on the SNES, it was horrid.

I loved the 32X. It was my first and main Doom experience. It was worth it alone for that one game.

I also loved Virtua Racing and had wanted to play the game for less than $1 per credit ever since I first came across an arcade unit during a trip to a big city.

I got both games and the 32X at X-Mas/my birthday and I had fun with it for months after(I still don't know what happend to it, lost in a move?)

I also didn't like SNES Bonk and didn't give the SFC game a chance after helicoptering through a maze as a chicken for way too long.

Great, sounds like a nightmare!

Joe Redifer · 08/24/2006, 08:05 PM

Quote from: CrackTigerThe PCE version definately has more [melody] than the Genesis version, but I don't know if there is still some missing from the arcade.

Yes, I was able to listen to it on your site. That's how After Burner 1 sounds... which is MUCH better in my opinion. That's not to say After Burner 2's music sucks, but I really do like the additional melodies. There aren't any melodies in the PCE version that are missing from the (After Burner 1) arcade. In fact I think it added a couple at the end of Final Take Off. The Sega CD After Burner 3 has the melodies, but unfortunately it also has some really bad sounding fake trumpets or horns of some type that really aren't very appropriate for the music. Otherwise it sounds godly.

Tatsujin · 08/25/2006, 12:08 AM

Quote from: BonknutsI think the SCD and arcade card both were excellent upgrades for the PCE that helped a show its potential.

When it comes to PCE SCD/AC vs Genesis/MD - the only thing MD has on the PCE CD system is the extra scrolling background layer. Oh SGX, why were you shown no CD love?

so truly true, dude! you've seeing it in the right and correct way!

OldRover · 08/25/2006, 12:30 AM

Quote from: BonknutsOh SGX, why were you shown no CD love?

Making SGX CDROM games is very possible, but I have no idea why this was never done. I believe there are some PCE hax0rs who've already experimented with this...PD and I were going to test the concept out since he has the entire setup but we never got to it...

Keranu · 08/25/2006, 12:55 AM

I'm still waiting for us to make some demos via SGC CD

. Super Grafx + CD + Arcade Card... just imagine the possibilites

.

Joe Redifer · 08/25/2006, 01:01 AM

Didn't the SuperGrafx have some sort of problem which prohibited it from operating at its full potential? I can't remember what it is eactly, but something about how memory must be shared and graphics or some such thing. I also heard the SuperGrafx had many more colors but I've never seen evidence of this by any screen shots... none of them looked like anything the PCE couldn't do aside from the extra scrolling layer. They should have included the extra SuperGrafx chipset on the Super System Card 3.0... for free.

Tatsujin · 08/25/2006, 01:09 AM

Quote from: Joe Redifershould have included the extra SuperGrafx chipset on the Super System Card 3.0... for free.

and hou you think this should have been possible?

more they should have included the chipset into the DUO itself.

Keranu · 08/25/2006, 01:09 AM

Don't recall hearing the SGX having problems like that, but I'm not the person who would know the answer for that. The SGX has no color differences from the regular PCE, as far as I know.

Tatsujin · 08/25/2006, 01:19 AM

only double of the vram and different sprite option (size or amount), i believe.

T2KFreeker · 08/25/2006, 01:30 AM

I can say that as far at the Arcade Card goes, Strider was amazing as all Hell on the Turbo/PCE. I still rmember playing it and drooling over the game, it was just amazing, period. Even though the Genesis version was awesome for it's time, the Arcade Card versiobn stomps all over it!

Joe Redifer · 08/25/2006, 01:33 AM

Ah yes, I remember now. It was the extra video chip. It had to be controlled by the regular old CPU which did not see any increase in speed, thus giving it a heavier workload than the PC Engine normally had to deal with. It didn't have it's own graphic controller or anything of the like. A faster CPU would have probably solved that, but a graphics GPU may have been cheaper.... not sure.

Tatsujin · 08/25/2006, 01:40 AM

for me the arcade hiryû strider is the most disapointed version exist on consoles! the fact that the scrolling is struggling with a horrible frame rate/scrolling, and the gameplay also couldn't reach even the MD standard and as well as most of the parts palette is looking awfull (ex. the ball in the gravity room). allthough an advantage is the sometime nice drawed back grounds (ex. the astrodome of the russian parlament in the 1st stage..) which appears in a huger and closer way to the arcade! the rest just suckz!

TurboXray · 08/25/2006, 03:41 AM

Tatsujin's right on the money with Strider for AC - what a huge let down. I have a friend who's dying to play it, but I won't let him as I don't want him to experience such a tragedy

QuoteAh yes, I remember now. It was the extra video chip. It had to be controlled by the regular old CPU which did not see any increase in speed, thus giving it a heavier workload than the PC Engine normally had to deal with. It didn't have it's own graphic controller or anything of the like. A faster CPU would have probably solved that, but a graphics GPU may have been cheaper.... not sure.

Not quite

It's funny really, when you read all the rumors of the SGX. I've written some demos/test code and SGX lib for HuC compiler. I don't want to type another 10 paragraphs so I'll try to make this short( it's getting late here).

Basically- saying the SGX CPU is under powered by the additional VDC(GPU) is like saying the Genesis CPU is also under powered by the additional BG scroll/layer and larger sprite buffer(80). It takes all of 30 cycles to update the background position of the second VDC - out of a possible 120,000 every 1/60 of a second(frame). Taxing? Hardly.

The SGX has an addition Video Display Controller with it's own 64k or vram and it's own set of sprites(64) just like the original VDC. So the SGX has 4 planes/layers - BG2, BG1, Sprite 2, Sprite 1. You can set priorities to rearrange the order(on the fly with Hsync interrupts too). And either VDC does not require the CPU to maintain display. There's also this neat(limited) little transparency effect you can do too - ala Jack Chan but cooler.

The SGX has a total of 128k of vram which is twice that of MD and SNES, so it wouldn't require as much dynamic updating (e.x. Sonic). And even though the SGX divides the 128k into two seperate 64k chucks, updating isn't really a problem because you can write to either display(vram) pretty much at any time.

The other parts of the SGX include 24k more ram for a total of 32k system ram (more important for hu-cards) and a Video Priority Controller(VPC) which handles priorities between overlaping sprites and backgrounds of the two VDCs as well as clipping options and turning on/off the second VDC output.

Two interesting things about the SGX is the VCE - another 16bit processer that handles the color, palette, resolution, and composite/RGB output. The SGX version has an 'A' revision that nobody seems to know what the changes are as well as the CPU having an 'A' revision. Probably nothing much, but I figured I'd mention it.

.....

Keranu · 08/25/2006, 03:46 AM

Bonknuts is the Super Grafx king, haha.

Joe Redifer · 08/25/2006, 06:17 AM

Do you think it would have been possible for Hudson/NEC to have made the SuperGrafx into a card for the existing CD-ROM, kind of like the 32X works as a giant expansion cartridge or the SNES with its FX chips? Granted, it would have cost a bit more than the standard System Card 3.0 update for existing PCE and TG-16 users (and it could have been built right in to the Duo as mentioned before), but I think it would have been worth it.

But then again I am a complete geek so I love things others may not.

OldRover · 08/25/2006, 09:54 AM

Often times in IC manufacture, "A" and later revisions are slightly redesigned to drain less. Perhaps they were planning on using the same power source but there was too much drain with the original spec, so hence the "A" revision. The PCE itself has quite a heavy drain from its three core ICs so I imagine that's what they did. Can anyone give the specs on the power adapter used for the SGX?

I doubt it would be possible to build the extra circuitry into a system card, and even if it was, it's unlikely that it'd be a performant as the real setup. I'm not sure the cartridge port has the means to do this but I couldn't say for sure...but I do know from my time in electronics that it wouldn't work as well as the original setup.

TurboXray · 08/25/2006, 10:24 AM

It's possible to make an SGX add-on through the back BUS of the system - excluding the Duo units since it's an all in one unit. If I can find another SGX for cheap, I would try to make one. Talking with Charles, he said you'd probably need an additional VCE on the add-on and not use the original output of the onboard VCE. Everything - every pin and address line is rerouted to the back bus, it's amazing - that they never took advantage of it.

You can't do this through the cart port, but you could add additional hardware to interface to the system via the card port. You could add additional processors or logic ICs. The AC has a(hardware) small 3 byte adder and a 4 byte roller that could be cleverly used for other things such a decompression routine, etc.

Nod- Remember the Jack Chan tranparency trick? You can do two other tricks similar but cooler then that with the extra VDC in the SGX

guyjin · 08/25/2006, 12:57 PM

Does the PCE/TG16 epansion bus exist inside the duo, or did it get replaced with something else? Could you make a 'breakout cable' to get access to it?

Seldane · 08/25/2006, 03:14 PM

There's no exp port on the Duo-R, but you can supposedly make one yourself if you like soldering.

guyjin · 08/25/2006, 04:53 PM

I was thinking about the possibility of a SGX add on today, and I have to say I'm skeptical.

NEC was obviously not shy about selling add-ons. If an SGX add-on was possible, they would have released the add on first; that's kind of like releasing the duo before the separate CD add on.

I suspect you will run into compatibility problems if you try this - but this is one case where I would love to be proven wrong.

TurboXray · 08/25/2006, 09:02 PM

QuoteNEC was obviously not shy about selling add-ons. If an SGX add-on was possible, they would have released the add on first; that's kind of like releasing the duo before the separate CD add on.

I'm not so sure. There's alot mystery was why the system was quickly abandoned even after they had already spent the money on developement and had a working system on the market. They could have included it in the Duo design, but obviously they didn't - not even empty sockets on the board or such. I think it had a something to do with internal politics conflict between NEC and Hudson. Maybe the PC-FX was supposed to be released earlier than it evenually did and they didn't want to steer attention away from it. I dunno. I believe "HE" stands for Hudson Electronics or Hudson Entertainment - is this logo anywere on the PC-FX?

SignOfZeta · 08/25/2006, 11:26 PM

I don't know man, seeing the Saturn mentioned in such a way, as if it were kindred spirits with the 32X and Jag...that's just insulting.

The Saturn was a 1st rate system all the way. It had world class titles in every genre. Hundreds of games were made for it. I had a Saturn when the system was new, and I'm *still* finding little undiscovered jems on eBay, and from trades with friends. If I could only have one system...it would be a handheld probably, but if I could only have one system, and it had to be a TV console, it would probably be the Saturn or PCE.

The 32X was mearly left over detritus from SOA versus SOJ infighting. I'm a huge Sega fan, but the 32X to me is one of the most embarrassing, disappointing, poorly conceived, and useless add-ons/systems ever made. The Jag...the Jag just sucked. It sucked so bad it makes the 32X look good. How many good Jag games are there? I mean actually good games. Good games that a non-nostalgic person can have fun with if they were introduced to them today? Two...maybe? Rayman, and that isometric Rally game. That's all I can think of.

GUTS · 08/26/2006, 12:46 AM

Haha, yeah the Jag is worse than the Virtual Boy. I've bought one a few times and tried to enjoy the games, but between the god-fucking-awful controller and total shit they call games on that system it's impossible to enjoy. Every game that's any good on the jag can be played on another system without the phone-controller.

Hell, I even really had a blast with my 3DO and found a bunch of good games on that, but the Jag is easily the worst system of all time unless you need to make a phone call while playing.

Keranu · 08/26/2006, 01:02 AM

I'm pretty unexperienced with Jaguar, but from the games I have played for it, I enjoy it. I do plan on getting a Jaguar eventually and one of the main resons is because of the amazing homebrew support it gets. Even if I end up buying a whole bunch of games for it that I'll only end up playing one or two of, I can still have hope for new games to come out for it and from the looks of the home brew games that have came out for it and are coming out, they look pretty neat.

Here's a question I have about the Jaguar though, how come the Jaguar gets so much homebrew support? I know there are a lot of hardcore Atari fans out there, but isn't programming on the Jaguar suppose to be excruciating?

OldRover · 08/26/2006, 07:13 AM

Keranu, because Hasbro decided to "open" the console to anyone, so anyone can legally dev for it.

The machine had a few good games, to be sure...Tempest 2000 and the port of Wolf3D come to mind.

JoshTurboTrollX · 08/26/2006, 01:37 PM

Hmm, The 32X vs. The Jagg was a heated topic over in Digital Press. My Opinion: The 32X sucked. The Jagg was pretty crappy, but a few games were pretty cool. Tempest. AVP, and Flip Out! are a few games I was very happy to play. Kasumi Ninja, and Ultra Vortek are a couple Cheese-Tastic fighters that are cool to make fun of. (For some reason I see Keranu loving Kasumi!)

Anyway- BACK ON TRACK!

The TurboGrafx is amazing! ITs 16-bit, the reason why most TG16 games look like first generation Genesis titles is because most Turbo Companies moved onto CD and Super CD games when they became avaliable. You know they actually moved on to the better hardware and supported it! Just think if Sega actually gave two shits about the Sega CD....

TurboSage

One things for sure: the 16-bit wars ruled!! I loved that time in gaming!

Keranu · 08/26/2006, 04:25 PM

Hehe, I've never actually got to play Kasumi Ninja because the only way I have tried playing it was with a emulator and it freezes after you select your character. I did dig the character select screen a lot though

.

torgo · 08/26/2006, 06:30 PM

Kasumi Ninja was gorgeous, but a HORRIBLE, unplayable game. One of the lead designers was a total prick at the CES right before they released it. He would just pwn everyone at it, then get a smarmy attitude about it.

Ultra Vortek is still a fun game to play. Fight for Life had a LOT of promise. The lead designer (who had previously worked on Virtua Fighters) was a pretty cool guy, and you could tell that he really wanted to make a great game. It sounds like he got rushed by Atari though.

OldRover · 08/26/2006, 10:27 PM

I owned Kasumi Ninja when I owned my Jaguar. Yeah, it looked great but yeah, it played like shit.

Keranu · 08/27/2006, 02:57 AM

Quote from: OldRoverKeranu, because Hasbro decided to "open" the console to anyone, so anyone can legally dev for it.

Oh yeah that's right, I totally forgot about that.

Digi.k · 08/30/2006, 08:51 AM

Quote from: Digi.kI sure like to find a genesis/megadrive shooter that looks as nice

hmmm what was I on that night... I think it was like 3am for me when I was typing this but .. I think it was the comment before about the PC Engine games that looked like NES games that sparked me off.. but then there are some NES games that even give the pc engine and megadrive a run for their money.. Gradius II and Crisis Force anyone? And yes the Megadrive is a fantastic piece of 2D hardware but the pc engine isn't any slouch in this section either.

Two games that still look great today as they did back in their days..
/magical.jpg
/devilcrush.jpg

Quote from: Digi.kand as I've said from somewhere else before .. not bad considering the pc engine's cpu isn't much faster than the NES's..

I got that info from some site that is dedicated to the pc engine.. I don't remember which one though but that was the authors comment.

OldRover · 08/30/2006, 10:24 AM

That author was on crackers then...in clock speed alone, the PCE's processor is 4 times the speed, plus since it's based on the later model 65C02, it has some bugfixes from the original spec that cleaned up software design a bit, which also helped performance.

Keranu · 08/30/2006, 03:57 PM

Ahh, I forgot how nice Magical Chase looked. I've seen screenshots for the Gameboy Color one and it also looked very nice.

CrackTiger · 08/31/2006, 06:43 PM

Quote from: Digi.k
Quote from: Digi.kI sure like to find a genesis/megadrive shooter that looks as nice
hmmm what was I on that night... I think it was like 3am for me when I was typing this but .. I think it was the comment before about the PC Engine games that looked like NES games that sparked me off.. but then there are some NES games that even give the pc engine and megadrive a run for their money.. Gradius II and Crisis Force anyone? And yes the Megadrive is a fantastic piece of 2D hardware but the pc engine isn't any slouch in this section either.

Two games that still look great today as they did back in their days..
/magical.jpg
/devilcrush.jpg

Quote from: Digi.kand as I've said from somewhere else before .. not bad considering the pc engine's cpu isn't much faster than the NES's..

I got that info from some site that is dedicated to the pc engine.. I don't remember which one though but that was the authors comment.

From what I've read online, the average Genesis-fanboy "knows" that the Genesis/Megadrive version of Devils's Crash has better graphics and sound (especially music, -none of that TG-16 "pops & hisses") all-round.

Seldane · 08/31/2006, 07:40 PM

Clicky!
https://www.sega-16.com/2005/01/side-by-side-dragons-furydevils-crush-genesis-vs-tg-16/

Wow, the PCE version doesn't even compare to its Mega Drive equivalent. I mean seriously, how can anyone claim the PCE game looks better ?

Joe Redifer · 08/31/2006, 07:51 PM

I'm not sure why the "edge" was given to the Genesis in the graphics department when I remember writing "draw" (or nothing at all). The main playfield is definitely better looking on the PCE/Turbo. The bonus rounds are definitely better looking on the Genesis.

PS - That page seems to be filled with broken image links. WTF?

CrackTiger · 08/31/2006, 08:10 PM

Quote from: SeldaneClicky!

Wow, the PCE version doesn't even compare to its Mega Drive equivalent. I mean seriously, how can anyone claim the PCE game looks better? :

You said it. It doesn't even compare!

Although I don't know why anyone would judge the graphics in ports solely on bonus stages(those "SEGA-16" images are linked to bonus stage pics), especially when the version with the apparently superior bonus stage graphics/art isn't quite as nice graphically in the real playing feild where 90% of the game is spent.

I mean, I can think of a couple reasons why... but it makes about as much sense as these-

By this logic, Golden Axe PCE is by far the greatest version because all the other versions' cinemas suck in comparison and don't feature CD music.

And Strider ACD pwns the competition for the same reasons.

TurboXray · 08/31/2006, 09:05 PM

Nicely written review Joe

I did notice the draw wasn't written in the index caption. Although I like the TG music alot, the genesis version sounds great - it has those genesis yamaha instruments I just love. I noticed the gorgeous bonus 6 on the genesis version is a symetrical image(split done the center) other than a few tiles that to try an hide it - sneaky.

Joe Redifer · 08/31/2006, 09:07 PM

Read my real review on Devil's Crush for the TG-16 which was written before the Sega-16 article.

Clicky clicky

QuoteDevil's Crush
8/10
TurboGrafx-16

Like all US NEC games, the box art is atrocious!

Let me start off by saying that I pretty much hate all pinball games. Real pinball games, that is. When it comes to videogame pinball I am much more forgiving since you can do things in games that you can't in real life, like having things walk around on the board or explode! Called "Devil Crash" in Japan, Naxat has once agan given us a great video pinball game. They first brought us Alien Crush which was good but they forgot to program scrolling into the game, and it suffered as a result. Devil's Crush fixes any problems Alien may have had and adds a whole bunch o' other crap that nobody needs all purely for your enjoyment!

The board is divided up into 3 screens. This is the middle one.
You can turn that lady into a lizard if you piss her off enough.

Graphics: 8/10
The graphics are crisp and clear. Demons look kick ass and the whole thing has a decidedly underworld look to it for some odd reason. If you are expecting the shiny-happy world of Flipnic, you're about to be surprised. Great color and satanic graphics add to the fun (you won't find Jesus forgiving anyone's sins in THIS game). The Sega Mega Drive version of this game known as Devil Crash MD/Dragon's Fury doesn't quite look as nice on the TV screen as this verion, despite the latter's increased resolution.

A comparison between the graphics of the Genesis and TurboGrafx
versions. The resolution of both playfields are the same, but the
Genesis has extra resolution so more stuff on the right was added.
The Genesis version tries to have a bit too much detail, making
the TurboGrafx version end up looking cleaner and better overall.

Sound: 8/10
Naxat really improved the music this time around. The main theme is simply fantastic, and the sub themes are all great as well. The sound effects are also great. The knight makes a serious groan of pain when you slam him in his nuts with your steel pinball. When you lose a ball, the skull laughs at how much you suck ass. When you lose your final ball he laughs even longer because he knows you just aren't man enough to do very well. Unlike the Genesis version, the music keeps playing while the voices are running, and the voices sound slightly cleaner here as well for some reason. A great audio package. Real pinball can't match this! But that's because real pinball is for giant douches.

One of the bonus stages, destroy all of Tiamat's heads!

Gameplay: 8/10
I like using my ball to squash little demons running rampant all over the board. You just can't do that in real pinball. Real pinball is retarded. Another thing this game does is give you bonus screens in which you try to accomplish a difficult objective. Unfortunately there aren't as many bonus stages as the Genesis version and they don't quite look as cool as that version, either. The game is easy enough to play. If you can't figure it out, then your mom deserves Hepatitus A right in her snatch. She should also have it on her anus and mouth just for good measure. Maybe in the left ear, too. If you are used to Metroid Prime Hunters Echos Pinball or whatever the hell it is called for the DS, know that you don't have to touch the screen in Devil's Crush to tilt the board. You simply press a button. The goal of the game is to max out the score. For a pinball game, this kicks ass!

Another bonus stage. Destroy these losers!

Bottom Line:
Naxat is the best video pinball maker ever. NOBODY can match them. Nobody. Also, your mom smells really bad.

Although I don't think the Sega-16 article is biased in any way (a huge Turbo fanboy might see it differently), articles tend to be edited when submitted to Sega 16, much to my chagrin.

CrackTiger · 08/31/2006, 09:18 PM

Quotehmmm what was I on that night... I think it was like 3am for me when I was typing this but .. I think it was the comment before about the PC Engine games that looked like NES games that sparked me off.. but then there are some NES games that even give the pc engine and megadrive a run for their money.. Gradius II and Crisis Force anyone? And yes the Megadrive is a fantastic piece of 2D hardware but the pc engine isn't any slouch in this section either.

You know what NES game I was amazed by? Gremlins 2!

Other than a limited pallete (it still shades everything nicely, recycling colors Genesis style), it's pretty much impressively 16-bit enough for me.

QuoteAlthough I don't think the Sega-16 article is biased in any way (a huge Turbo fanboy might see it differently), articles tend to be edited when submitted to Sega 16, much to my chagrin.

It's definately one of, or the most unbiased comparison reviews on Sega-16, but the author stills refers to the music in the TG-16 version as "typical Turbo Grafx, with your PSG-heavy hums and buzzes" and says "Believe it or not, these voices sound much better on the TurboGrafx-16".

TurboXray · 08/31/2006, 09:22 PM

Quotearticles tend to be edited when submitted to Sega 16, much to my chagrin.

That's total crap! They should edit anything in anyway. BTW, I keep forgetting to ask on the Sega16 forums, but is there a Fhey Area(faeria?) walkthough - anywere!? I have a friend who's been looking for one for ages. I'd like to try it out too, but won't touch it without a walkthrough.

CrackTiger: That MegaDrive vs Arcade video is the funniest thing I've seen in a while - funnier than "All your snakes are belong to us" vid and that was pretty funny. You're such a boc for doing that vid!

Digi.k · 08/31/2006, 09:36 PM

well I was unable to get the bonus round screenshots for the Megadrive version of Devil Crush but they do look far nicer than the pc engines' bonus screens.... but here's a comparison..

/segaVSpcengine-1.jpg

That guys side by side pics ... the colours on the megadrive version do no way do they look that when I run it on my megadrive emulator and I'm using fusion.

/DEVILCRU-002.jpg

now if only I can figure a way to record the main in-game theme music of both versions into MP3's and upload them..

CrackTiger · 08/31/2006, 10:16 PM

Quote from: Digi.kwell I was unable to get the bonus round screenshots for the Megadrive version of Devil Crush but they do look far nicer than the pc engines' bonus screens.... but here's a comparison..

That guys side by side pics ... the colours on the megadrive version do no way do they look that when I run it on my megadrive emulator and I'm using fusion.

now if only I can figure a way to record the main in-game theme music of both versions into MP3's and upload them..

Here ya go-

wayback.superpcenginegrafx.com/audiodm1.html

Digi.k · 08/31/2006, 10:32 PM

Quote from: CrackTigerHere ya go-
wayback.superpcenginegrafx.com/audiodm1.html

haha thanks I forgot you put that up already in another thread ^^

Joe Redifer · 09/01/2006, 01:15 AM

Quotebut the author stills refers to the music in the TG-16 version as "typical Turbo Grafx, with your PSG-heavy hums and buzzes" and says "Believe it or not, these voices sound much better on the TurboGrafx-16".

That's a pretty good description on TG-16 sound. Doesn't mean it is bad.

Keranu · 09/01/2006, 01:25 AM

Not another TG16 vs Genesis version debate

. Sega, I love you but your fans are crude to the Turbo fans

.

CrackTiger certainly hit the nail with the hammer about the graphics between each version of Devil's Crush. When 90% of the game takes place on the main board, the Genesis version shouldn't get the "edge" just because the bonus stages look nicer. And on top of things, there are some different bonus stages in the Genesis version anyways and the designs of the bonus stages are a lot different to begin with, so they can't even really be compared.

I've posted about my thoughts on each version before and give the "edge" the Turbo version on nearly all aspects, but I did like the new bonus stages in the Genesis version a lot. Maybe I'll do a comparison in the future as well for my site.

esteban · 09/01/2006, 10:19 AM

Quote from: CrackTigerI mean, I can think of a couple reasons why... but it makes about as much sense as these-

Haahhahaahahhhahahhhahahaa. Holy crap, that is the funniest dig at what's-his-name that I've seen yet! Insanity

. Sorry AirRaidX (if memory serves me).

CrackTiger · 09/01/2006, 01:18 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer
Quotebut the author stills refers to the music in the TG-16 version as "typical Turbo Grafx, with your PSG-heavy hums and buzzes" and says "Believe it or not, these voices sound much better on the TurboGrafx-16".
That's a pretty good description on TG-16 sound. Doesn't mean it is bad.

"Beleive it or not" is a reference to the idea that it's unbeleivable for the TG-16 to match or top the mighty Genesis.

As for refering to the TG-16 music as "typical", it's not. It may work with the vanilla PSG sounds that most earlier PCE games do, but it does some amazing things with them, both effects-wise and in composition. Then it's all balanced with some of the best use of samples in a TG-16 PSG soundtrack.

The main reason I prefer the TG-16 music, is the actual 'performance'. The Genesis version has some really cool sounds and effects of it's own(and some negatives that I won't get into), but almost every track which appears in both versions sounds like it's being played by a band of souless skilled robots instead of a group of talented humans putting real emotion into it.

It's kinda like the difference with Lords Of Thunder. The Sega-CD version has a heavier sounding more modern recording and although messing with the timing of a song can really improve it, as many bands do in live versions, instead it loses a lot and although all the notes are there, it's just not performed as well.

It's also kinda like when someone programs a midi that contains every note and although they seem to have technically gotten the timing reasonably correct in each channel/instrument, somehow it just doesn't sound right as it alls comes together.

But, there isn't a huge difference between the TG-16 vs Genesis games' soundtracks(this is probably the closest any TG-16 & Genesis port will ever come), I'm just trying to explain the main reason(along with how the Genesis version's tracks aren't as balanced) why for me, the TG-16 version has the edge. I love them both.

Anyways, as for the slight bias, the author either forgot, or had his review edited to remove comments like "just another one of these wavy warbley sounding Genesis games" and "Surprisingly for a Genesis game, the new art in bonus rounds actually looks somewhat colorful."

Quote from: stevek666
Quote from: CrackTigerI mean, I can think of a couple reasons why... but it makes about as much sense as these-
Haahhahaahahhhahahhhahahaa. Holy crap, that is the funniest dig at what's-his-name that I've seen yet! Insanity . Sorry AirRaidX (if memory serves me).

Hey, the SMS vs Arcade description uses 97% of his own words. If it is a dig, he only makes himself sound crazy.

Of course, that's how he wound up on YouTube taking swipes at the message boards that he got booted from.

Joe Redifer · 09/01/2006, 04:28 PM

Actually the bonus rounds do look good for a Genesis game. Or even a SNES game.

Keranu · 09/01/2006, 08:00 PM

Quote from: CrackTiger...but almost every track which appears in both versions sounds like it's being played by a band of souless skilled robots instead of a group of talented humans putting real emotion into it.

God you're the greatest

.

Excellent points made by CrackTiger and also I loved the SMS Ghost n' Ghouls comparison video

!