Analyzing Street Fighter 2: CE on why it is so great.

Joe Redifer · 07/26/2007, 06:45 PM

The voices in Fighting Street and Forgotten Worlds rock, but those are not TG-16 voice examples. The ADPCM does those (and they are exactly like the arcades sound).

Quote from: guestI don't remember those Dynamite Headdy sample sounding so high quality on an actual console, or even in an emulator. What's up with that?

There are two possibilities:

#1 - You remember incorrectly. This is the most likely scenario.

#2 - You listened to them on a crappy Genesis 2 (the ones with the messed up sound) or a poorly written emulator which made the voices somehow sound worse. I haven't seen too many emulators that could play Space Harrier II's "Get Ready" voice correctly. It usually sounds slowed-down.

awack · 07/26/2007, 06:51 PM

The JP version of forgotten worlds has an option to change the voices not only does it effect the cutscenes but also in game when you get hit or die it longer sounds as if some one is smashing there face on a microphone.

Joe Redifer · 07/26/2007, 06:54 PM

The sound team at Capcom is very poor. There was lots of popping in Street Fighter as well (that's what the distortion is called when you hear the puff of air from the letter "p", etc), not to mention other sorts of distortion from being too close to the mic. Forgotten Worlds has a lot of this and Strider even has a little bit. Totally unprofessional recordings.

CrackTiger · 07/26/2007, 06:58 PM

Quote from: BonkThis on 07/26/2007, 09:16 AMI love the examples black tiger, is there any chance you can throw up the arcade equivalent next to the 3 you already have for the ultimate comparrison?

Here are some of the 4-way shots I've got ready-

I've got screenshots of all the stages of all four versions.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/26/2007, 05:44 AMClick here for Genesis voice examples recorded from real hardware by me.
_{► /crap/GenesisVoiceExamples.mp3}
Click here for TurboGrafx voice examples from CrackTiger (I assume from real hardware).

Yeah those were recorded from real actual hardware, but they are only some of the english samples that I could find on HuCards that I actually own(and I'm no HuCard game expert).

Even though most HuCard games are kept small or moved to CD, there're probably better samples on HuCards. But I don't think that anything would sound better than the best of those Genesis samples.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/26/2007, 01:56 AMThat's right! Two white guys cannot possibly hate each other, so no special treatment for that victim!

Anyway I think the Genesis voices sound bad because there is only one DAC in the thing. The game had to be able to play back more than one voice at a time, which it often does. Also you have sampled drums and elephant screeches. The sample rate was probably halved if not quartered to accomplish this through a single channel.

If thats the case, they shouldn't have bothered trying to get so many simultaneous sampled sfx going at once. It looks like the PCE version only uses 2 channels for samples, one for voices and one for sfx & instruments and it sounds fine multiple sfx-wise. The arcade doesn't even have more than one voice at once.

Maybe multi-channel samples are a strength the PCE has against the Genesis' seemingly better potential quality for single samples.

awack · 07/26/2007, 07:25 PM

It seems that the snes and genesis versions are missing the dude with the guitar in the second set of pics.

CrackTiger · 07/26/2007, 07:29 PM

Quote from: awack on 07/26/2007, 07:25 PMIt seems that the snes and genesis versions are missing the dude with the guitar in the second set of pics.

Yeah, each port has its own unique inclusions or ommissions. The MD/Gen version seems to have the most of those touches in its bgs.

Some ports are more faithful in color to the arcade in some areas of stages while some are different but look nicer.

SNKNostalgia · 07/26/2007, 07:35 PM

I think they just simply spent a lot more time on the PCE version. Think about it, they had to make a 16-bit game work right for a 8-bit system with 16-bit color. Also, it probably helped that the PCE was already being maxed out in those days. It wasn't until 95-96 when the SNES and Genesis did some really amazing stuff with the help of more experience and higher meg counts.

Another missing thing is the girl to the left of the jet intake in Guiles stage. Also, the Vegas girls are bouncy on the PCE but not SNES and even more bouncy on the arcade. I have an eye for that after being a KOF fan for years.

spenoza · 07/26/2007, 07:43 PM

Joe, please PM me some info (and sites) about the "crappy Genesis 2". That's the model I have and I'd like to find out more so I can replace it, if need be.

CrackTiger · 07/26/2007, 08:01 PM

Quote from: SNKNostalgia on 07/26/2007, 07:35 PMI think they just simply spent a lot more time on the PCE version. Think about it, they had to make a 16-bit game work right for a 8-bit system with 16-bit color. Also, it probably helped that the PCE was already being maxed out in those days. It wasn't until 95-96 when the SNES and Genesis did some really amazing stuff with the help of more experience and higher meg counts.

Another missing thing is the girl to the left of the jet intake in Guiles stage. Also, the Vegas girls are bouncy on the PCE but not SNES and even more bouncy on the arcade. I have an eye for that after being a KOF fan for years.

I actually think that Capcom did a half-assed job compared to the standard of their SNES ports. Sure it turned out great, but it should've been a lot better.

Around the time that the PCE version was near completion, Capcom showed off its Megadrive version of 'CE which would've been released around the same time. It was definitely a rushed straight port. The color was awful, its was severly letterboxed, had smaller sprites and real slowdown. It showed that Capcom really didn't care about its non-Nintendo games.

Luckily, the negative reaction and likely a mathematicion showing them what the Sega market was like outside of Japan convinced them to go back to the drawing board at the last minute. The huge jump in quality of the 'Special Champion Edition" really impressed me when it finally came out. Especially Guile's stage.

I've been dying to find a rom of some footage of that original Megadrive SFIICE port, but the closest I've ever come is this video of the second attempt that resembles the final version more. It does seem to have different music than the final version and some FM sfx though.

Capcom never made any other PCE games before or after and it was only a contract job that NEC hired them to do. Plus, as it was being developed the mags reported how NEC wanted the game out asap, to bask in exclusivity before the other versions got released. Because at that point, the only other home version was SNES WW.

At the very least they music should've been programmed/performed like some of the better HuCard soundtracks, the black bar behind the HP bars is unnecessary and it wouldn't be hard to do at least some layered bgs/scrolling. One of the good NEC Ave teams could've done a much better job.

If Capcom had at least made as many games for PCE as Konami did and was publishing them themselves, I think that the game would be a lot different(especially if it was a port of the arcade instead of the SNES WW).

SNKNostalgia · 07/26/2007, 08:06 PM

I remember my friends that all had Genesis 2 systems with some similar faults and some different. All except 1 of them had a graphical barring effect going vertical across the screen, which is very noticeable in solid BGs. Two of them had not so great sound, especially noticed it when my friend was playing Mortal Kombat 2 once.

Joe Redifer · 07/26/2007, 08:13 PM

'spenoza, go to www.sega-16.com and talk about it on their forums (you can't make a new thread until you have made 10 regular posts, but there are existing threads dealing with Genesis models and as well as audio).

Here are some pics I took from emulators:

ARCADE - 140 colors

SNES - 108 colors

NEC TurboGrafx-16 Entertainment Supersystem - 77 colors (slight cropping due to Magic Engine's "DEMO VERSION" bar)

Genesis - 44 colors

CrackTiger · 07/26/2007, 08:35 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/26/2007, 08:13 PM'spenoza, go to www.sega-16.com and talk about it on their forums (you can't make a new thread until you have made 10 regular posts, but there are existing threads dealing with Genesis models and as well as audio).

Here are some pics I took from emulators:

Those arcade and SNES screenshots are from World Warrior.

Here are some similar unaltered pics of CE:

Arcade - 148 colors

SNES - 98 colors

PC Engine - 75 colors

Genesis - 44 colors

I resized the arcade screenshots for the article I'm working on to make it easier to compare bg elements and general colors.

Joe Redifer · 07/26/2007, 09:04 PM

I like the unaltered shots because then you can compare resolutions as well. Also, you should move the characters to the edge of the screen so you can see the missing elephants that no system has the power to do. The only difference in the graphics between my shots and yours (Turbo??) is that the rug is blue instead of orange... same with the drape on the wall.

The Genesis seems to have the least letterboxing.

TurboXray · 07/26/2007, 09:34 PM

Quote from: guest on 07/26/2007, 08:10 AMAbout the 68000, according to Wikipedia it's a CISC chip, 16-bit design with many 32-bit registers. Feeding data to 32-bit registers normally requires it be 32-bit data, which should be relatively large if code size is indeed not inconsequential. I know later 680x0 chips were true 32 bit, but the 68000 appears to be something of a bridge or crossover chip, being the first in the series and all. I've always been a little confused by that because the 68030 and on were 32-bit in and out, and early Macintosh code that ran on the 68000-based Macs was 32-bit code and ran fine on the later CPUs. I'm sure, of course, OS support played a role and I doubt the early stuff was written all in assembly, but the "bitness" of the original 68000 has always been a confusing issue.

Watch out for wikipedia, even if it's a great source for info (correct or otherwise). The 68000 is more RISC than CISC - it only has 59 instructions out of a 16bit and/or 32bit opcode build, and paired with the fact that it has an orthogonal instruction set, I don't how one could say it's CISC. CISC instructions are individual/separate from one another (each instruction is it's own opcode). Heh, the 65x02 variants are predecessors to RISC approach, in the fact that the opcode is devised of the instruction bits, address mode bits, and operand like that of RISC - not CISC.

The 68000 is a 16bit CPU with a 16bit data bus. It can process 32bit arithmetic/shift/bitwise operations but the internal ALU is still 16bit. It uses combination of two 16bit ALUs to create a 32bit program counter(addressable memory) and 32bit operations. The 32bit operations are the same as on a 68020, but actually executing on a 32bit ALU ( and less clock cycles for the same instruction regardless of Mhz).

Quote from: Joe RediferClick here for Genesis voice examples recorded from real hardware by me.

Click here for TurboGrafx voice examples from Black Tiger (I assume from real hardware).

Nice examples.

But practicality prevents clear samples(6-7khz range) on the genesis' channel six DAC when DMAing is happening to the VDP (VRAM). This includes the z80 since it will halt if it accesses the bus (and yamaha address range) while the DMA is happening, and resume afterwards. (The genesis is known for this problem)

This is important since the genesis can not access VRAM during active display, so it must do all the transfers as fast as it can during vblank (inactive display) - thus DMA (which halts the main CPU and will halt the z80 if it trys to access the bus). Generally you can get clear samples when there's not much happening on screen (DMA to VRAM per frame not needed or is very short).

The PCE can avoid this problem because it can write to VRAM at anytime during active display. There's no need to DMA to the VRAM only during vblank - halting the CPU in the process (though you can if you wanted too). Both the PCE and the Gens will play samples at frequencies as fast as you can write to the DACs, but *both* have frequency limits for general in game use with the gens being a little more limited.

The 4 PSG channels on the gens is only accessable on the z80 with a direct port to the VDP (yes the video controller handles the PSG sound), but is not halted by the DMA if the z80 does not access the main CPU's bus ( I think samples and code have to be played out of the z80's ram to avoid being halted). I wonder if SF2 used the PSG unit instead for sound samples...

( A nice PCE sample. Play it on the real hardware or current medanfen. )

Joe Redifer · 07/26/2007, 09:53 PM

Dude, if you are going to keep calling it "the Gens", then I demand you refer to anything PCE as "the Turbs". It's only fair... and logical.

Also, I know of no Genesis game that uses the PSG channels for vocal or digitized effects. The PSG has quite limited sound, and you can listen to them in the SMS port of Street Fighter 2. The voices sound a bit smoother, but more limited in the way of frequency response.

Also, can you make an MP3 out of that link? I have no way to play your sample.

TurboXray · 07/26/2007, 09:58 PM

Heh-heh-heh... ok fine, "the turbs". "the Gens" sounds cool IMO. I'll see if I can make an mp3 tonight (if B_T doesn't beat me to it).

(Goes off to listen to some Vapor trail music for hours on end).

CrackTiger · 07/26/2007, 10:48 PM

Quote from: TurboXray on 07/26/2007, 09:58 PMHeh-heh-heh... ok fine, "the turbs". "the Gens" sounds cool IMO. I'll see if I can make an mp3 tonight (if B_T doesn't beat me to it).

(Goes off to listen to some Vapor trail music for hours on end).

Too late!

I actually already had a Duo hooked to my PC since I was recording sound roms last night.

I had wanted to include the Mario 64 voice demo back when I made that Turbo voice sample mp3, but at the time none of the computers in the house that work with the flash card were working. Its kinda buggy on real hardware, but here it is.

The Lunar clip sounds rough on my PC running in Magic Engine, but pretty freaking unbelievable on real hardware.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/26/2007, 09:53 PMDude, if you are going to keep calling it "the Gens", then I demand you refer to anything PCE as "the Turbs". It's only fair... and logical.

Also, I know of no Genesis game that uses the PSG channels for vocal or digitized effects. The PSG has quite limited sound, and you can listen to them in the SMS port of Street Fighter 2. The voices sound a bit smoother, but more limited in the way of frequency response.

Also, can you make an MP3 out of that link? I have no way to play your sample.

It plays in Magic Engine, but ME on my computer sounds noticibly different than real hardware, especially PCE sound samples.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/26/2007, 09:04 PMI like the unaltered shots because then you can compare resolutions as well. Also, you should move the characters to the edge of the screen so you can see the missing elephants that no system has the power to do. The only difference in the graphics between my shots and yours (Turbo??) is that the rug is blue instead of orange... same with the drape on the wall.

The Genesis seems to have the least letterboxing.

The Genesis version does indeed have 8 extra pixels of height in its background.

The feature was only going to compare the home consoles to one another. I only tacked on some arcade shots once the project began to grow in size.

The console shots are all at their real actual resolutions. Its hard to judge whats changed from the arcade when looking at a warped image that is meant to be viewed at a different aspect ratio, let alone when its a different ratio than the screenshots its being compared to.

If I end up finishing everything as planned, all the little things like missing elephants will be detailed with more than just full screen grabs. The screenshots I posted were from the seperate backgrounds section. I was only going to use a screenshot from the centre of each stage, since the bgs warp as you scroll across them and it would already be 36 screenshots as-is. I may still try to collage together the full stages as I had wanted to early on, but I've already got too many unfinished projects as it is...

Bonknuts: I finally got the Kabukiden sound rip rom to work on my Duo by flashing it alone to the card. For some reason I had thought that that was the first thing I tried way back when.

It turns out the drums don't use ADPCM as I had thought, so I don't know if a sound rip that uses ADPCM will run off the card. The one game I know uses ADPCM in its PSG music is Dragon Slayer, but only the sequel's music has been ripped so far(maybe the ADPCM posed a problem for people trying to rip it?).

Tatsujin · 07/26/2007, 11:11 PM

Quote from: SNKNostalgia on 07/26/2007, 07:35 PMAlso, it probably helped that the PCE was already being maxed out in those days. It wasn't until 95-96 when the SNES and Genesis did some really amazing stuff with the help of more experience and higher meg counts.

that counts the same for the PCE in term of "really amazing stuff" > e.g. Sapphire in '95, which even toped anything on any 16-bitter at that time (Neo Geo exclusive).

Joe Redifer · 07/26/2007, 11:52 PM

That is definitely a nice sound sample! But of course that one sound sample is as big or bigger than all but 1 HuCard in existence. Now do it for the Genesis as well. Should be similar if not a little better. Then do it for the SNES (reverb off, please).

QuoteSapphire in '95, which even toped anything on any 16-bitter at that time

Sapphire is a definite showpiece graphically, but I vigorously disagree with that statement.

CrackTiger · 07/26/2007, 11:55 PM

QuoteThat is definitely a nice sound sample! But of course that one sound sample is bigger than all but 1 HuCard in existence. Now do it for the Genesis as well. Should be similar if not a little better. Then do it for the SNES (reverb off, please).

Can you turn off the reverb on SNES sound?

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/26/2007, 11:52 PM
QuoteSapphire in '95, which even toped anything on any 16-bitter at that time
Sapphire is a definite showpiece graphically, but I vigorously disagree with that statement.

So do I.

I find many other PCE games much more impressive. Not that Sapphire isn't nice in its own way.

Keranu · 07/27/2007, 12:04 AM

Quote from: TurboXray on 07/26/2007, 09:34 PM( A nice PCE sample. Play it on the real hardware or current medanfen. )

Wow, that's amazing!

Tatsujin · 07/27/2007, 12:48 AM

Quote from: guest on 07/26/2007, 11:55 PM
QuoteThat is definitely a nice sound sample! But of course that one sound sample is bigger than all but 1 HuCard in existence. Now do it for the Genesis as well. Should be similar if not a little better. Then do it for the SNES (reverb off, please).
Can you turn off the reverb on SNES sound?

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/26/2007, 11:52 PM
QuoteSapphire in '95, which even toped anything on any 16-bitter at that time
Sapphire is a definite showpiece graphically, but I vigorously disagree with that statement.
So do I. I find many other PCE games much more impressive. Not that Sapphire isn't nice in its own way.

i do not talk about its style etc. that's everyones own desicion what he likes. but technical wise it is the monster and it shows almost anything 2D related possible on a 16-bitter in almost perfection.

if people argue with donkey kong on a SFC/SNES how much the hardware was overused at that time, so I can counter argue that this was happening on the PCE as well, and at that time. the PCE wasn't pushed to its limit in '92 or '93, no.

and that the PCE was pushed over its limit may times isn't a secret at all.

Joe Redifer · 07/27/2007, 01:28 AM

Games like Donkey Kong Country, Sapphire, Blazing Star, etc which use prerendered video as the basis for their graphics never really impress me as much as they impress other people. The only thing the system is doing is showing new frames of animation. Yeah, that's cool, but I am just not a fan of the prerendered look. Granted, there are some exceptions. Yes, Sapphire has some nice multi-layers here and there as well as some cool vertical scaling of the BG. I like that. But I'm pretty sure I've seen the Turbo do better.

Also, regarding Lunar. I never really liked that chick's singing voice. Probably because it's not a very good singing voice and it's the only one Vic ever used as far as I can tell (plus his lyrics often suck). That's not a knock against the quality of the sample, though. Just against the chick.

Tatsujin · 07/27/2007, 03:11 AM

same here. i do not like sapphire for its pre-render blah, but for its impressive exposure of anything. the argue that a donky kong c. pushes the SFC to its max, isn't a statement by myself, but from a lot of people out there, which is obviously wrong. but in the case of sapphire it really pushes the hardware, and not too little. concerned to the fact it's the same ol' hardware from '87 (cpu usage, calculation etc.)

CrackTiger · 07/27/2007, 08:47 AM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/26/2007, 11:52 PMThat is definitely a nice sound sample! But of course that one sound sample is as big or bigger than all but 1 HuCard in existence.

Didn't Tales of Symphonia on Super Famicom use 16 megs for voice, on top of what was only a 32-meg game?

Once again, the size of published HuCards is irrelevant since the CD format took off early on.

This is another good example of how developers weren't as concerned with pushing the hardware for PCE games as developers were for the 2 sides of the console war.

spenoza · 07/27/2007, 05:36 PM

I think the Atari 2600 peripheral called the Kid Vid, made by Coleco, has the best audio EVAR. You connected a special tape deck to the Atari and at certain points in the game the audio would be played from the tape deck. And because it's analog there are no sampling rate complications! Atari/early 1980's FTW!

Joe Redifer · 07/27/2007, 05:39 PM

Tales of Symphonia was a MASSIVE UNBELIEVABLE 48 MEGS! That's almost bigger than my penis! WOW! MINDBLOWING! You had to have the power company wire 3-phase power feeds into every area of your home just to run such a powerful game. The game had many, many voices plus a song. I don't think any single sample was 16 megs big, though.

PS - I PWN this game.

CrackTiger · 07/27/2007, 09:04 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/27/2007, 05:39 PMTales of Symphonia was a MASSIVE UNBELIEVABLE 48 MEGS! That's almost bigger than my penis! WOW! MINDBLOWING! You had to have the power company wire 3-phase power feeds into every area of your home just to run such a powerful game. The game had many, many voices plus a song. I don't think any single sample was 16 megs big, though.

PS - I PWN this game.

I don't think that any of ToS's single samples were 41 seconds long either.

Quote from: guest on 07/27/2007, 05:36 PMI think the Atari 2600 peripheral called the Kid Vid, made by Coleco, has the best audio EVAR. You connected a special tape deck to the Atari and at certain points in the game the audio would be played from the tape deck. And because it's analog there are no sampling rate complications! Atari/early 1980's FTW!

The Intelivoice for Intellivision did some great voice samples. The audio samples were played from the cart. Because it's digital the voices can be played at any time in any order! Mattel/early 80's FTW!

spenoza · 07/27/2007, 10:08 PM

The Kid Vid could rewind y'know. It just means you had to wait a few seconds for some tracks to start playing...

Keranu · 07/28/2007, 01:30 AM

IntelliVoice is so badass.

Joe Redifer · 07/28/2007, 01:33 AM

Quote from: guestI don't think that any of ToS's single samples were 41 seconds long either.

The opening song is well over two minutes long, and the vocal part is about 1:05 long.

PhilBiker · 07/28/2007, 08:44 AM

What Strength! But don't forget there are many guys like you all over the world!

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_{► /fs/FS_03_0D91000.wav}

_{► /fs/FS_04_0D9A000.wav}

_{► /fs/FS_14_0E41000.wav}

_{► /fs/FS_16_0E61000.wav}

More: https://www.ysutopia.net/downloads/fs/

Ceti Alpha · 09/08/2007, 03:00 AM

hehehe. Those Fighting Street samples are hilarious. Now if I could only pull off some moves in that game.

But the Gate of Thunder samples are sweet. I love how the voice is so direct.

"Game Over"....now get out

I was just watchin' Soldier Blade on Youtube. I like the voice samples in that game.

Come to think of it, I really have to get that game. lol. Argh!! So many games to get. hehe

But for voice samples, nothing beats Sinistar. I posted a link in another thread with all the voice samples.

Joe Redifer · 09/08/2007, 06:36 AM

Where?

esteban · 09/08/2007, 08:20 AM

Quote from: ceti alpha on 09/08/2007, 03:00 AMhehehe. Those Fighting Street samples are hilarious. Now if I could only pull off some moves in that game.

But the Gate of Thunder samples are sweet. I love how the voice is so direct.

"Game Over"....now get out

I was just watchin' Soldier Blade on Youtube. I like the voice samples in that game. Come to think of it, I really have to get that game. lol. Argh!! So many games to get. hehe

But for voice samples, nothing beats Sinistar. I posted a link in another thread with all the voice samples.

Sinistar is great.

But, if we limit ourselves to consoles only, I don't think anything can beat Atari 2600 taunting and mocking us:

"Chicken, fight like a robot!"

My friend and I thought that was the koolest thing. And the fact that the game whupped our collective asses made it that much more poignant.

Berzerk.

Ceti Alpha · 09/08/2007, 02:09 PM

Sorry Joe, I guess I should have said where I posted that link. It's a pretty big forum, eh...

I posted the link in "What popular games do you love to hate." But here's the link anyway: http://onastick.net/drew/sinistar/

Oh Bezerk. How I love and hate thee.

I would play that game for hours upon hours. haha. My older brother and I had a high score competition. So I would come home from school or where ever and find our little gaming TV left on with his high score flashing in my face. Then I knew I had some Atari 2600 time ahead of me. We eventually took it too far. lol. IT NEVER ENDS!!!!

SignOfZeta · 09/08/2007, 03:11 PM

Quotethat counts the same for the PCE in term of "really amazing stuff" > e.g. Sapphire in '95, which even toped anything on any 16-bitter at that time (Neo Geo exclusive).

Yeah, not really. Yoshi's Island is more impressive from both an artistic, and technical level. Granted the subject matter is different, and the game's can't really be compared. Scrambled Valkyrie is also nicer looking, for the most part. I would even say that Assault Suit Valken, and R-Type III are better looking than Sapphire. Sapphire is rather bland and boring too often. Also, the gameplay is just middle of the road, and the sound is actually kind of average, and in some cases verging on horrible.

Honestly, while Sapphire is impressive in many ways, I also have a "its not *that* great" attitude about it since there are several other PCE shooters I like more, graphically and otherwise, like Star Parodia, and Gate of Thunder.

SignOfZeta · 09/08/2007, 03:15 PM

Quote from: Joe RediferTales of Symphonia was a MASSIVE UNBELIEVABLE 48 MEGS! That's almost bigger than my penis! WOW! MINDBLOWING! You had to have the power company wire 3-phase power feeds into every area of your home just to run such a powerful game. The game had many, many voices plus a song. I don't think any single sample was 16 megs big, though.

PS - I PWN this game.

I think you are talking about Tales of Phantasia. Symphonia is the far-too-long-to-actually-finish Gamecube game, which is like...3 gigs or so.

I was enjoying that thing for the first 30 hours or so, but then I realized I was still on the first disc, and that there was no way I would ever stay interested in it. I wish they'd just make games shorter.

Kitsunexus · 09/08/2007, 03:33 PM

The SNES sound chip rules, but the reason why the SNES version's sound sucks IMO is because they used SHIT samples. The arcade used a Yamaha FM chip, so that's why the music in the Genesis version is dead on, and the Alpha games are all samples but they're GOOD samples. The SNES's crap samples is what makes the music sound shitty. They must have had a generic Casio or something.

They could have just did like what Irem did for SNES Gunforce, take samples from the FM chip and make an FM "emulation", if done right that can sound really good.

And yeah Tales Of Phantasia RULES. I didn't know GC games were 3GB though, I thought GC discs were 1GB.

Keranu · 09/08/2007, 04:31 PM

Quote from: esteban on 09/08/2007, 08:20 AM
Quote from: ceti alpha on 09/08/2007, 03:00 AMhehehe. Those Fighting Street samples are hilarious. Now if I could only pull off some moves in that game.

But the Gate of Thunder samples are sweet. I love how the voice is so direct.

"Game Over"....now get out

I was just watchin' Soldier Blade on Youtube. I like the voice samples in that game. Come to think of it, I really have to get that game. lol. Argh!! So many games to get. hehe

But for voice samples, nothing beats Sinistar. I posted a link in another thread with all the voice samples.
Sinistar is great.

But, if we limit ourselves to consoles only, I don't think anything can beat Atari 2600 taunting and mocking us:

"Chicken, fight like a robot!"

My friend and I thought that was the koolest thing. And the fact that the game whupped our collective asses made it that much more poignant.

Berzerk.

Hahaha, that sounds awesome! Reminds me of Blazing Star for Neo Geo when the game displays text that says "Hey poor player!".

TurboXray · 09/08/2007, 04:40 PM

QuoteThe arcade used a Yamaha FM chip, so that's why the music in the Genesis version is dead on..

Not quite. Genesis version doesn't sound the same as the arcade to me. Different YM FM synths generate and have different sounds/effects/instruments, so they sound different from each other if not of the same family of ICs.

SNKNostalgia · 09/08/2007, 04:42 PM

Each disc can go up to 1.5 gigs. So put two discs together and you got 3 gigs. It is funny how the GC uses exactly the same physical technology as DVD-Rom. The only difference is a key bar code protection and the 8cm made it load considerably faster than full sized DVDs. It avoid licensing fees with DVD and helped the system cost less also. This way they could put most of the money into the specs and quality of the system. It was a perfect move on Nintendo's part except for the kiddy games and then the MA-17 great games came out almost too late.

SignOfZeta · 09/08/2007, 06:05 PM

QuoteAnd yeah Tales Of Phantasia RULES. I didn't know GC games were 3GB though, I thought GC discs were 1GB.

I think they are about 1.5. This is a 2 disc game though.

CrackTiger · 09/08/2007, 11:32 PM

Quote from: TurboXray on 09/08/2007, 04:40 PM
QuoteThe arcade used a Yamaha FM chip, so that's why the music in the Genesis version is dead on..
Not quite. Genesis version doesn't sound the same as the arcade to me. Different YM FM synths generate and have different sounds/effects/instruments, so they sound different from each other if not of the same family of ICs.

Yeah, the Genesis version is quite a bit different if you actually listen to the two versions at the same time. The title screen music in particular, is way off in the Genesis version. Its not just the types of sounds used for instruments, some of 'performances' are different.

But its not like something is by default the best just because it came first. All three ports have nice soundtracks within unique strengths.

2X4 · 09/08/2007, 11:57 PM

I have always thought that the genesis sound in general usually reminds me of a wet fart. I don't think anyone can really tout sound as one of the genny's strong suits, in my opinion.

Tatsujin · 09/09/2007, 02:30 AM

in generally, i like the harm brass trumpet touched sound of the MD. especially in games like hell fire (remember the dock-off sound) or Thunder force III.

Joe Redifer · 09/09/2007, 03:01 AM

QuoteI don't think anyone can really tout sound as one of the genny's strong suits, in my opin

Actually lots of people can, and do! It's all subjective. I prefer the sound capabilities of the MD and PC Engine far more over the SNES. Yes, the SNES has a great sound chip and does voices really well. But I like that the Genesis/MD and PC Engine still sound like, well, videogames! Oh, and the reverb on most SNES games is a huge turn-off.

There are lots of Genesis tunes that seem to feature the kazoo, though. Contra Hard Corpse is one of many such games (listen to level one, the lead instrument is a kazoo).

Tatsujin · 09/09/2007, 04:18 AM

Contra the HC is just a great example concerned rockin' MD BGMs.

CrackTiger · 09/09/2007, 03:29 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 09/09/2007, 03:01 AM
QuoteI don't think anyone can really tout sound as one of the genny's strong suits, in my opin
Actually lots of people can, and do! It's all subjective. I prefer the sound capabilities of the MD and PC Engine far more over the SNES. Yes, the SNES has a great sound chip and does voices really well. But I like that the Genesis/MD and PC Engine still sound like, well, videogames! Oh, and the reverb on most SNES games is a huge turn-off.

Thats exactly how I think of it. MD & PCE generated music sounds like video game music. The SNES, while still nice in its own way, is stuck somewhere inbetween video game music and 'real music', but isn't close enough to either for my tastes.

I can't think of any console that generates its own music whose sound I don't appreciate. Whats cool about the Genesis sound, like most early consoles, is that its unique. Playing games on different 'retro' systems wouldn't be as much fun if they all looked and sounded the same.

TurboXray · 09/09/2007, 05:20 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 09/09/2007, 03:01 AM
QuoteI don't think anyone can really tout sound as one of the genny's strong suits, in my opin
Actually lots of people can, and do! It's all subjective. I prefer the sound capabilities of the MD and PC Engine far more over the SNES. Yes, the SNES has a great sound chip and does voices really well. But I like that the Genesis/MD and PC Engine still sound like, well, videogames! Oh, and the reverb on most SNES games is a huge turn-off.

There are lots of Genesis tunes that seem to feature the kazoo, though. Contra Hard Corpse is one of many such games (listen to level one, the lead instrument is a kazoo).

Yeah, the reverb go so annoying real quick. When playing a SNES game, there's always that nagging in the back of your brain saying , "why the fuck didn't the include an option to turn off reverb!". In some games it was OK, but since it was so over used it still sucked in those games.

I like the Yamaha chip the Genesis used. Some games try to push it beyond its limits and you get harsh/scratchy sounding music. Most of the game music I like are from the early-to-mid generation genesis games that had clear sounding instruments. Also, Genesis had the best sounding bass guitar.