Should the PCE and Turbo areas of the forum be merged?

[Joe Redifer]

Calm down there, little guy.

[SignOfZeta]

Yes to all, I'm anal about that shit.

Its kind of fucked up, IMO, to hear about proper topic segrigation and shit from someone who, AFAIK, has never even touched a piece of NEC game hardware, rarely even talks about the software under emulation for that matter, and makes most of their posts about PSP stuff and bad game music.

I should point out though that unless I'm actually starting a new topic I never even go to the various sections. It requires far to much use of the Back button. I just use the "Show unread posts since last visit." link every time I visit.

I brought this issue up in the past and decided I didn't give a shit, but since someone just asked my opinion I though I'd give it.

[Sinistron]

Nat's the last person who needs anyone to speak for him- but Kitsu if you would've stopped screaming to Nat PLAY RAILCHASE NAT PLAY RAILCHASE maybe you would've heard him talking about how rough the last couple of days have been for him.  He's got more on his mind than Railchase.

[MurderDate]

think about it from a newbie's perspective.  When I joined a couple months ago I was completely clueless and only read the topics in the Turbo Grafx page.  Eventually I had more of an interest / understanding of how the two systems relate to one another and read more of the PCE stuff.  It can be quite confusing at first.

so before you go and make any changes,  consider wether you are doing it for the comfort of the old foggies who have been here for years,  or the new people joining the forum every week.

[MurderDate]

maybe you would've heard him talking about how rough the last couple of days have been for him. 

you mean Tailspin??   

[SignOfZeta]

think about it from a newbie's perspective.  When I joined a couple months ago I was completely clueless and only read the topics in the Turbo Grafx page.  Eventually I had more of an interest / understanding of how the two systems relate to one another and read more of the PCE stuff.  It can be quite confusing at first.

so before you go and make any changes,  consider wether you are doing it for the comfort of the old foggies who have been here for years,  or the new people joining the forum every week.

As one of those fogies I can tell you that 15 years ago when the Turbo Mailing List was one intigrated discussion mostly dominated by PCE discussion (since PCE games were still being released) people asked the same exact questions then as they do now in this fragmented forum. This is because NEC consoles are confusing, period. Telling people with a TG-16 that they have a different system than a guy with a PCE isn't going to make things better or worse, its just stupid and untrue.

Seriously, its just games. It isn't that hard. I mean, just getting a PS3 up and runnnig fulling registerd with an HD signal and a PS store account is way more comlex that this stuff. Quit insulting the intelligence of noobs. They'll figure it out sooner than most of us fogies ever did. They can just go to the Wiki or something.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

This is exactly what I'm getting at.  Many games appeared in both regions.  What if I want to talk about Splatterhouse and I posted it in the Turbo forum instead of the PCE one?  You'd likely miss the chance to add some Mike Helgeson-ness to the thread and contribute to the discussion.  Where do I post my thread so it gets the most exposure?  If you say the PCE forum, then it all comes down to everybody posting everything in just the PCE forum just to get the most exposure for their threads.  Region is irrelevant to the discussion of most games.

I agree that region is insignificant to most games; there's a tiny few where there's a pretty big difference between the two, but not enough to warrant separate discussions.  Maybe there could be daughter-threads under the general TG-16/PCE/SGX area just for the two region's hardware.  Maybe not.

Seriously, this is the most pointless thread ever on PCEFX, and wouldn't you know it, I DIDN'T EVEN START IT!

Four pages of responses beg to differ.  The title was accurate, so if you don't care, then why'd you even enter the discussion? 

you mean Tailspin??   

Oh, yeah! 

[nat]

I'm pretty surprised to see the segregation of opinion regarding reworking the forum layout. In the past years when it's been brought up casually things were much more black and white. I guess the advantage we have now is a larger more diverse userbase.

Viewing the results as they are at this moment, I wouldn't expect anything to change imminently.

And another thing, why the fuck was this even suggested? Did it REALLY bug people that much? No matter how this little poll turns out, it's still Aaron's site, and I HIGHLY doubt he is going to rework the forum because of a simple little poll. And if it stays the way it is, I doubt any of you are going to leave, and if you DO get your way you all are going to bitch and bellyache when the revision brings in several little glitches.

Seriously, this is the most pointless thread ever on PCEFX, and wouldn't you know it, I DIDN'T EVEN START IT!

  This poll was posted on behalf of the administration. 

Aaron is watching and reading all the comments here, they are all valid points. What he ultimately does with that information will be his own decision, but we thought it'd be nice to have everyone's opinion all in one place to take into considering for any potential changes. You've made your view clear already so there's really no further need for you to post in this thread unless you have something constructive to offer. 

[MurderDate]

I would just leave it as is..

[PCEngineHell]

What if I want to talk about Splatterhouse and I posted it in the Turbo forum instead of the PCE one?  You'd likely miss the chance to add some Mike Helgeson-ness to the thread and contribute to the discussion. 

Ill try to get back on that particular subject soon. I still need to beat my own high score....

[Kitsunexus]

Yes to all, I'm anal about that shit.

Its kind of fucked up, IMO, to hear about proper topic segrigation and shit from someone who, AFAIK, has never even touched a piece of NEC game hardware

You mentioned SNES/Super Famicom, that's what I was talking about.



And besides, places like DP consider the PCE and TG16 seperate, so wouldn't merging them not be accurate in a sense?

[SignOfZeta]

I have know idea who "DP" are, but if they consider the TG-16 a different system than a PC Engine they are wrong. Period. They run the exact same code on the same processors. The CDs are universal, the HuCards require a minor hack. All the chips and ram and other ICs are the same. They are made by the same company and came from the same factory.

A US Gamecube and a JP Gamecube are the same. A PCE and a TG-16 are the same.

The only difference was the marketing.

[Kitsunexus]

I have know idea who "DP" are

Digital Press...in the guide I have, the software lirbaries are listed seperately.

[Joe Redifer]

What makes them any kind of authority on the matter?  Answer: Nothing.

Still, nobody has been able to answer my question:

Where do I post my thread so it gets the most exposure?  If you say the PCE forum, then it all comes down to everybody posting everything in just the PCE forum just to get the most exposure for their threads.

[nat]

...which leads to the elimination of the Turbo forum. 

you're preaching to the choir here, but it seems like the majority has spoken. They like things the way they are.

[Joe Redifer]

I notice a lot of PCE-related threads in the Turbo forum right now, like "10 Favorite CD games".  Should they only be allowed to list US games?  Should we ban anyone who lists a Japanese game?  Should we move it to the PCE section?   What if someone puts Bonk 3 in their list once it is moved, or the US version of ANY game for that matter?  Ban?

The fact of the matter is, there really are already two PCE forums, one of which occasionally gets a smattering of Turbo talk.

[MissaFX]

I notice a lot of PCE-related threads in the Turbo forum right now, like "10 Favorite CD games".  Should they only be allowed to list US games?  Should we ban anyone who lists a Japanese game?  Should we move it to the PCE section?   What if someone puts Bonk 3 in their list once it is moved, or the US version of ANY game for that matter?  Ban?

The fact of the matter is, there really are already two PCE forums, one of which occasionally gets a smattering of Turbo talk.

We could ask people in a new post clarifying the purpose of the different areas to try to keep their posts as on "topic" as they can.  Obviously if you are talking about the differences between a JPN and a USA release it could be started in either section as long as you post it in the section which fits best.  For example if I wanted to know the differences between Galaga '88 and Galaga '90 I would ask in the PC-E area.  But if I asked for the differences between Galage '90 and Galaga '88 I would ask in the Turbo area.  If this is too confusing for your world, we could always add an area to the bottom section called "NEC Cross Talk" or something which would be specifically a section to ask any questions or carry any discussions involving multiple regions of NEC consoles or even different versions like the differences between a Super Grafx and a PC-FX (of which there are many in terms of compatability, but you never know what a new NEC fan might need to know).

However I think things are fine atm, no need to fix what isn't broken.  Unless you have to keep your budget up for next year

[Nazi NecroPhile]

I notice a lot of PCE-related threads in the Turbo forum right now, like "10 Favorite CD games".  Should they only be allowed to list US games?  Should we ban anyone who lists a Japanese game?  Should we move it to the PCE section?   What if someone puts Bonk 3 in their list once it is moved, or the US version of ANY game for that matter?  Ban?

The fact of the matter is, there really are already two PCE forums, one of which occasionally gets a smattering of Turbo talk.

Beat dead horses much?  I don't care one way or the other, but like nat said, the masses have spoken; if you (the mods) don't care about opinions contrary to your own, then this thread shouldn't have been made.

[Joe Redifer]

Oh, who declared this thread finished?  Why is it a dead horse?  We only have 27 members here?  I'd just like my questions answered by someone who likes the separation.  It seems like we lose either way, IMO.

[Kitsunexus]

OK, since there's too much heated arguing going on:


Is there any way that we could do a trial run of the forum revision for like a week, one that could be easily reverted if we didn't like it? That way if things didn't work out, no harm no foul, just revert it. If it's a success, well then congrats!

I'm pretty sure phpBB can do that, but can SMF do that?

[nat]

That's not a bad idea, but I'm not sure how much work would be involved with that. That's Aaron territory. I don't know if he would be keen to doing a trial or not. It might be more trouble than it's worth. I remember in the past when he was trying to tweak things it was a real pain for him.

Still, not a bad idea.

[Sinistron]

MANNN You clannish mother fuckers for segregating- it's straight up RACISM!!! 

[Joe Redifer]

I agree with nat that it might be too much trouble, especially if things need to be reverted back.  Merging forums is pretty easy, but separating them back again?  Man.  You'd have to go in and mark each individual thread that moves and then mass-move them.  Or you might even have to move them one by one.  Oh man!  I like the idea, but don't know if SMF would make that easy.

[MissaFX]

OK, since there's too much heated arguing going on:


Is there any way that we could do a trial run of the forum revision for like a week, one that could be easily reverted if we didn't like it? That way if things didn't work out, no harm no foul, just revert it. If it's a success, well then congrats!

I'm pretty sure phpBB can do that, but can SMF do that?

It is really messy to revert a forum as far as I know without loosing a lot of posts, because everything will be mixxed up.  I am against even trying it unless we somehow had 2 different versions of the board available during that week.  So far more people are against this change than for it and I don't think the board should ever make changes unless a clear majority of the regular number of people who post here votes one way. Any poll like this even 50%/50% or 60/40 should not be a passing resolution because it shows that the proposed solution is not the most acceptable one.  Any acceptable change I feel would have a 75% or higher percent of the people for it.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Oh, who declared this thread finished?  Why is it a dead horse?  We only have 27 members here?  I'd just like my questions answered by someone who likes the separation.  It seems like we lose either way, IMO.

Five different posts from the same person stating the same idea is beating a dead horse.

[Joe Redifer]

Maybe because nobody can provide answers?  Only Missa even attempted it, but her idea was to create a 3rd forum.

Beating a dead horse would be about issues already resolved and in the past.

[MissaFX]

Maybe because nobody can provide answers?  Only Missa even attempted it, but her idea was to create a 3rd forum.

Beating a dead horse would be about issues already resolved and in the past.

I don't know if we are on the same page with a 3rd forum, unless you mean a new area to these forums.  I am glad though than you understand I am arguing with you, rather than at you or against you Joe.

[Joe Redifer]

Yeah, the "Cross talk" idea would have to be a 3rd forum.  It couldn't be anything else.

I feel more like you're arguing your case rather than simply arguing with me, and that's totally cool so no worries.

[MissaFX]

Yeah, the "Cross talk" idea would have to be a 3rd forum.  It couldn't be anything else.

I feel more like you're arguing your case rather than simply arguing with me, and that's totally cool so no worries.

Yeah, that too.  But since people are talking about the arguments being heated, I am just making sure it isn't people reading what we are saying and taking it as something that it isn't.  By arguing with you I mean that I am involved in a discussion in which you and I seem to be in nearly polar opposite camps.

[PCEngineHell]

I notice a lot of PCE-related threads in the Turbo forum right now, like "10 Favorite CD games".  Should they only be allowed to list US games?  Should we ban anyone who lists a Japanese game?  Should we move it to the PCE section?   What if someone puts Bonk 3 in their list once it is moved, or the US version of ANY game for that matter?  Ban?

The fact of the matter is, there really are already two PCE forums, one of which occasionally gets a smattering of Turbo talk.

Beat dead horses much?  I don't care one way or the other, but like nat said, the masses have spoken; if you (the mods) don't care about opinions contrary to your own, then this thread shouldn't have been made.

Yea I am kinda going,huh? Our opinion was asked if we would be for or against the change,but those against it,the majority,seem to be taking flak and Joe especially is expecting everyone to defend their opinion in  a almost attack dog manner.

We were asked to vote,we did so,should be left at that. Its kinda crude to attack us or our reasoning by demanding we make up reasons you find acceptable,for simply stating we like things the way they are.

[Joe Redifer]

True, reasoning be damned.

[rag-time4]

Also keeping it separate is especially important for people like me who only interest themselves with either the US or Japanese side of things and not both. I don't pay as much attention to the TG discussions as I do the Pc Engine ones

This is exactly what I'm getting at.  Many games appeared in both regions.  What if I want to talk about Splatterhouse and I posted it in the Turbo forum instead of the PCE one?  You'd likely miss the chance to add some Mike Helgeson-ness to the thread and contribute to the discussion.  Where do I post my thread so it gets the most exposure?  If you say the PCE forum, then it all comes down to everybody posting everything in just the PCE forum just to get the most exposure for their threads.  Region is irrelevant to the discussion of most games.

As for the sales forums, I usually don't visit them, but I don't think it would be that big of a problem.  We're not eBay.  People who come to this place have to know at least something about the system in order to find the site.

Joe, if you're really concerned about exposure, post the thread in both forums...

But you are pointing out a weakness of separated boards... for someone who wants to discuss something relevant to both the American TurboGrafx 16 and the Japanese PC-Engine...

I have an idea... why not leave the board as is, and add another forum category for mixed TurboGrafx  PC-Engine discussion if it really floats your boat.

Personally, I like the idea of having the boards separate for emotional reasons. I like the fact that it's a bit quirky and a bit of a pain... but so is the system. Just about everywhere else on the internet, TurboGrafx and PC-Engine are thrown together in one forum... here they are separate, and I kinda get a kick out of it.

As a compromise, you could always have a combined discussion area for TurboGrafx-16 and PC-Engine, but separate sale threads for TurboGrafx and PC-Engine sales.

As things are, I voted no, because I really enjoy this website as it is.

I hope this isn't part of some master plan to get a Sega Genesis area added.... 

[Joe Redifer]

Dammit you've discovered my master plan!  Foiled again!  I will have the dedicated Genesis section someday and it will be ON TOP of the PCE forums (which will require at least 100 posts in the Genesis forum to enter)!

Personally, I like the idea of having the boards separate for emotional reasons.

This rules.

Anyway I'd never cross post the same thread.  I'd just hope enough people wander into both forums to see it and create a worthwhile discussion.  I don't think another forum would be worthwhile.

[rag-time4]

Dammit you've discovered my master plan!  Foiled again!  I will have the dedicated Genesis section someday and it will be ON TOP of the PCE forums (which will require at least 100 posts in the Genesis forum to enter)!

Personally, I like the idea of having the boards separate for emotional reasons.

This rules.

Anyway I'd never cross post the same thread.  I'd just hope enough people wander into both forums to see it and create a worthwhile discussion.  I don't think another forum would be worthwhile.

I cross posted a sale thread once because I was selling stuff for both the Turbo and the PCE. Keranu decided to lock one of them.

If there was only one sale thread I wouldn't have had that problem...

But at the same time if there is only one sale forum then people with specific interest in either US Turbo or PCE won't have easy access to the games of their choice...

[guyjin]

speaking of exposure, here's a reason to keep 'em separated:

when I go away for a day, there are usually a screen full of threads with new activity in both the pce and turbo forums. if they were combined, the amount of threads with new activity would likely be much higher in that forum, and some of them would get pushed off the front page. and threads that get occasional, but not daily, activity (like, say, the SFIV thread) might dissapear altogether.

[esteban]

I think the fewer boards, the better. For general conversation, we should have ONE TG-16/PCE water kooler. If folks desire, they can label their posts as (PCE only!) or something like that. This strikes me as the best solution.

No, I didn't take the time to re-read everything in this thread

[Joe Redifer]

Guyjin, I understand what you are saying, but why would there ever be a SFIV thread in the PCE or Turbo section (assuming, of course, that by SFIV you mean Street Fighter IV )?   

[guyjin]

Guyjin, I understand what you are saying, but why would there ever be a SFIV thread in the PCE or Turbo section (assuming, of course, that by SFIV you mean Street Fighter IV )?   

Because Street Fighter IV is coming out on PCE ACD! 

but srsly, it was the first thread of that kind that i could think of.

[Kitsunexus]

I am glad though than you understand I am arguing with you, rather than at you or against you Joe.  

OMG MISSA IS KIRBY! AAAAAAAHHHHHH!

[MissaFX]

I am glad though than you understand I am arguing with you, rather than at you or against you Joe.  

OMG MISSA IS KIRBY! AAAAAAAHHHHHH!

Huh??

[Kitsunexus]

I am glad though than you understand I am arguing with you, rather than at you or against you Joe.  

OMG MISSA IS KIRBY! AAAAAAAHHHHHH!

Huh??

Your sentences had proper diction and affection for the moderators.

[MissaFX]

I am glad though than you understand I am arguing with you, rather than at you or against you Joe.  

OMG MISSA IS KIRBY! AAAAAAAHHHHHH!

Huh??

Your sentences had proper diction and affection for the moderators.

I assure you it's a phase, not a lifestyle choice.

[Kitsunexus]

I am glad though than you understand I am arguing with you, rather than at you or against you Joe.  

OMG MISSA IS KIRBY! AAAAAAAHHHHHH!

Huh??

Your sentences had proper diction and affection for the moderators.

I assure you it's a phase, not a lifestyle choice.

l0l u ha|) m3 \/\/0rRi3d

[PCEngineFX]

I want to thank everyone who has chimed in about their forum preferences.  Changes will be happening, however I can't say at the moment what they will be.

[CrackTiger]

The forum listing would look something like this:

THE PC ENGINE FX WORLD
 -Pcenignefx.com - The NEC Console Resource Site
 -The Pcengnefx Network - Your Worldwide Connection to NEC Console Info
 
NEC VIDEOGAME CONSOLES
 -TurboGrafx-16, TurboDuo, PC-Engine and SuperGrafx Discussion
 -PC-FX Discussion
 -NEC Console Repair/Mod Discussion
 -High Scores
 -Sales & Trades
 
HOMEBREW DEVELOPMENT
 -Turbo/PCE Development
 -PC Game Development
   
OTHER DISCUSSION
 -Chit-Chat
 -Console Chat

This pretty much exactly how I would do it.

[Kitsunexus]

I want to thank everyone who has chimed in about their forum preferences.  Changes will be happening, however I can't say at the moment what they will be.

Wait, so failwin or winfail? 0_o

[Joe Redifer]

In your case it would be winfail.  In mine it would be failwin.

[Kitsunexus]

In your case it would be winfail.  In mine it would be failwin.

Well I was on your side (no changes).

[Joe Redifer]

I was all for changes!

[Kitsunexus]

I was all for changes!

OH. ok.