What shmups have an option for a high resolution mode (Arcade Mode)?

Joe Redifer · 03/24/2008, 06:33 PM

"Tate" means to turn the TV over on it's side. I highly doubt the GC version requires that... though it would be humorous.

Kitsunexus · 03/24/2008, 07:08 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 03/24/2008, 06:33 PM"Tate" means to turn the TV over on it's side. I highly doubt the GC version requires that... though it would be humorous.

Oh, my bad. You can still run it in normal mode, it just doesn't take up anywhere NEAR he full screensize.

SignOfZeta · 03/24/2008, 09:43 PM

Quote from: PCEngineHellThe other Star Soldier games were prob designed in said aspect also for all we know since they have this mode hidden also.

Maybe I'm not getting what you are saying here (what we are all saying here), but I think I disagree. This "arcade mode" or whatever doesn't do anything but squish the screen. Pan and scan film transfers are crap because they cut %30 the image away. (Exceptions: "TV-sized" versions of movies that were smooshed to fit the credits and then for the rest of the feature, strip %30 of the image away. Its pretty rare to see these now but they were once extremely common on TV, and even sometimes in VHS in the early days.) Old 80s ports of arcade shooters that were vertical in the arcade would definitely do this when converted to horizontal home versions (sorta, everything was actually redrawn, but the effect is the same), but this "arcade mode" (AM) thing isn't going to fix it. A better analogy would be more like watching a film that was pan and scanned in stretched wide mode on a 16:9 TV; now its the right shape but there is still information missing from the screen *and* its all smooshed. AM (at least on the games I've played) doesn't allow for the correct placement of ships/enemies and/or the correct ratio of ship/enemy size to screen size. It just smooshes it. That's all.

Basically, imagine a shooter that plays vertically but runs on a horizontal monitor. Radiant Silvergun, for example. Now play it in a funhouse mirror that makes fat people look skinny. That is "Arcade Mode".

With the Solider series games this is doubly stupid since there was no arcade version, vertical or otherwise (that I know of) for the PCE game to pretend to be. Because of this I seriously doubt that they were designed for the resolution of a vertical monitor at any point.

Sinistron · 03/24/2008, 10:37 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 03/24/2008, 09:43 PMWith the Solider series games this is doubly stupid since there was no arcade version, vertical or otherwise (that I know of) for the PCE game to pretend to be.

It may be "doubly stupid" to you but this thread was started because people actually enjoy the "arcade" modes- some- myself included- feel that the compression makes the graphics nicer to look at. Your funhouse mirror idea is kind of pointless (almost as pointless as joining a thread about something that you don't "get" and drawing empty comparisons) - as anything from this era compressed makes the image appear higher resolution and anything blown up from this era of gaming pixelates the images- its like saying water is wet.

As for the soldier games- it's just as "stupid" to include arcade screen modes as it is to include caravan modes- since we are not taking part in the "actual" caravan competition. So there's no actual arcade versions of some of these games- who gives a shit? It's a bonus feature for a game dude. Plus "arcade" simply refers to arcade shooters with narrow screens- of which there are many. I seriously doubt they're trying to fool people into thinking that the games appeared in the arcade. The shooter fanatics in Japan certainly wouldn't have assumed that Soldier Blade was an arcade classic because of an arcade mode. Again- it merely references to narrow arcade shooter screens of the day.

PCEngineHell · 03/24/2008, 10:50 PM

If I get time later I will look into this a tad with compare pics,but as far as I can tell the arcade modes look like the arcade more last I looked. Typically in stretched out mode you have to actually move over more to get to certain objects btw,and typically anything in arcade mode,at least on later shooter releases is displaying a screen aspect true to the arcade,with blank borders on the sides,like Raiden. Mame does it this way also if you want it too so you don't have to flip your monitor.

SignOfZeta · 03/24/2008, 11:40 PM

Quote from: PCEngineHellTypically in stretched out mode you have to actually move over more to get to certain objects btw,and typically anything in arcade mode,at least on later shooter releases is displaying a screen aspect true to the arcade

Yeah, with a lot of 32-bit era stuff (Layer Section (SS), I think) this is exactly true and much appreciated. This doesn't happen with SSS though. In AM in SSS the relative size of all sprites and BGs are the same to each other as they are standard mode. It has no effect on gameplay at all.

rag-time4 · 03/25/2008, 12:55 AM

Quote from: PCEngineHell on 03/23/2008, 03:54 PMI'm thankful this thread got made. I will def give Dragon Spirit and Image Fight more attention now.
Thanks

I'm surprised nobody commented on this in the Image Fight high score thread, but I believe all my screenshots are from arcade mode.

I always play in arcade mode, and yes, all it really does is smooshes the graphics, but the narrow screen makes it more psychologically similar to the arcade version even though there is no tangible difference in the gameplay.

nat · 03/25/2008, 01:09 AM

Image Fight is another great example of a game that when played in the "normal" mode feels like everything is stretched out to fill the screen. Playing in the arcade res actually makes it feel more natural.

PCEngineHell · 03/25/2008, 02:40 AM

IMAGE FIGHT
./Amakusa666/imagefightcompare.png
In Image Fight you don't move over on the left or right more then what you see in the pics on anything,arcade,PCE.
Stretched fattens crap out too much on PCE,Arcade mode looks normal,well as normal as can be considering so much detail is missing. Still a great port for what it is though.

DRAGON SPIRIT
./Amakusa666/dragonspiritcompare.png
In Dragon Spirit arcade you have to move over to see more of the screen. That was kinda unusual for me to see. On PCE you don't have to do that on either mode,everything is just there. On PCE stretched however everything is fat looking,yet again,and looking at the sprites they look ugly due to being fat. It doesn't look natural. Arcade mode looks the most correct,as the sprites look fine. You'd be able to tell better if I could get better pics,but I suck at this game badly and it was hard to find a good reference point.

After doing all that its clear that full screen mode has stretched the graphics out completely where it looks too fat.
Arcade modes are def more ideal if you want the look and feel,and correct sprite size of the arcade.

Tatsujin · 03/25/2008, 03:11 AM

this is quite strange, since all the grafx was re-drawed for the port, why they made it fat for the standard mode (the mode which 99.99999% of all the people play the games usually)???

Joe Redifer · 03/25/2008, 03:27 AM

Thanks for posting those, Michael.

The pillarboxed mode on Image Fight seems to match up with the arcade pretty well, whereas the fat mode does not.

Verdict: the Pillarboxed mode is closest to the arcade.

The arcade mode of Dragon Spirit looks like it is halfway between the "fullscreen" and pillarboxed modes of the PCE version. The fat version looks more stretched than the arcade, and the skinny version looks a touch more squished than the arcade.

Verdict: The arcade seems to be the closest version to the arcade.

TurboXray · 03/25/2008, 04:24 AM

Micheal: You grabbed those screen shots from the real systems or emulators? Because "snapshots" from emulators don't provide pixel aspect ratios needed for comparison. If you find out the pixel aspect ratios, then you get scale them into the correct format for comparison.

Tatsujin · 03/25/2008, 06:59 AM

mal is right. he just explained me that last time, when i was wondering, why the CPS-1 screenshoots are that wide, if taken from a emulator. and his answer, that the analog pix of a crt aren't square like the emu display them on a flat etc., which was right plausible.

CrackTiger · 03/25/2008, 08:39 AM

I'd actually planned on mocking up shots of each game in the list with 4:3 aspect ratios like this-

I'm late for work this morning, so that was all I could put together for now.

Ceti Alpha · 03/25/2008, 09:19 AM

Thanks guys for posting these comparison pics. Very nice.

spenoza · 03/25/2008, 09:38 AM

I think the reason the stuff looks fat is because the PCE's default resolution is a square, whereas TVs have a 4x3 rectangular aspect ratio. The TV stretches the image to fit the available screen real estate.

If you play some of these games on certain emulators they look just fine (in window mode anyway) because they preserve the square image size and don't stretch to fill a theoretical 4x3 screen.

NecroPhile · 03/25/2008, 10:05 AM

@ M.H. - Many thanks for the screen shots. It's a good thing that you labeled which PCE image was full screen and which was arcade mode, otherwise I would've been utterly lost.

@ B.T. - Late for work, yet you still found the time to take some screen shots. Pure kick ass.

nat · 03/25/2008, 10:45 AM

Great comparisons guys. Maybe this will put all the naysayers who claim arcade mode "just squishes the graphics" to rest.

PCEngineHell · 03/25/2008, 02:55 PM

Actually the pics I posted were from a second run. I was originally imagining a grand gallery with pics of all sorts of games from my tv,but after messing with just Image Fight on my tv and having no luck getting good clean shots,plus playing Arcade Image Fight I had to tilt my tv,taking one for the team because you know how much I love you guys

,I finally got fed up though and went to the emu directly for shots because I didn't like the blur on the cam pics.

Rest assured though before I did so,I did alot of comparing. I would get to a certain point on the arcade,pause,then switch video channels to the one the PCE was on,play to that point,pause,flip back and forth and compare,run again in arcade mode to that point,compare,then run ME on my tv for the heck of it to get a extra look at things for the sake of doing so. I did this with both Image Fight and Dragon Spirit.
Heres some of the ugly proof that I did take time to do so on a TV:

imagefightfirstruncompaza9.jpg

nat · 03/25/2008, 11:21 PM

I just crushed Final Soldier in the arcade-res mode. If anything, it seemed to make the gameplay a little smoother and maybe even made the game a bit easier overall.

SignOfZeta · 03/26/2008, 12:19 AM

Quote from: nat on 03/25/2008, 10:45 AMGreat comparisons guys. Maybe this will put all the naysayers who claim arcade mode "just squishes the graphics" to rest.

Not really because in some games that's clearly all it does (SSS, Burning Angle) but in Dragon Spirit it actually effects the game play. I think the verdict is, "it depends".

Believe me, I'm a sucker for shooter correctness and display modes that seem wacky to most people but essential to me. When Under Defeat came out my TV was sideways for weeks (because my VGA CRT doesn't like being tate...at all). I just don't see the point is smooshing SSS into a fake vertical mode. Since it was never in the arcade it should have just been designed around a 4:3 ratio in the first place (which is was) like Radient Silvergun.

You can get the same results just adjusting your display to smoosh away a third of the screen space.

PCEngineHell · 03/26/2008, 03:49 AM

Good suggestion,but not everyone has the service codes to their tvs Zeta,nor are they always easy to obtain. Sometimes its easier for you to,you know,enter a code or choose a option on the game itself....

Joe Redifer · 03/26/2008, 04:31 AM

On those Image Fight screens Michael just posted (the ones with the shot of the TVs), it looks to me like the normal mode is most faithful to the arcade whereas the "arcade mode" is squished. Just look at the little circle on the landing pad. It is round in the arcade version. On the PCE "fat" screen, it is pretty much round, maybe slightly stretched too wide, but not much. The PCE "arcade mode" is clearly a squished oval, not round at all. The "arcade mode" fails. Normal mode for the win on Image Fight!

Michael, you should not compress your images so much. Look at the reds and the text and all that. It's barely readable. What exactly are you doing to destroy those images so much?

SignOfZeta · 03/26/2008, 06:28 AM

Quote from: PCEngineHell on 03/26/2008, 03:49 AMGood suggestion,but not everyone has the service codes to their tvs Zeta,nor are they always easy to obtain. Sometimes its easier for you to,you know,enter a code or choose a option on the game itself....

I was being sarcastic.

Ceti Alpha · 03/26/2008, 09:41 AM

I just wish there was a way to see everything in arcade mode. Everything needs to be in arcade mode.

PCEngineHell · 03/26/2008, 01:42 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 03/26/2008, 04:31 AMMichael, you should not compress your images so much. Look at the reds and the text and all that. It's barely readable. What exactly are you doing to destroy those images so much?

Sorry,didn't even notice. It was mostly a Photobucket issue,it downsized automatically. I stuck it on image shack,so there you go. Now you can read the text.

Kitsunexus · 03/26/2008, 02:27 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 03/26/2008, 04:31 AMMichael, you should not compress your images so much. Look at the reds and the text and all that. It's barely readable. What exactly are you doing to destroy those images so much?

He's using .JPG.... >_<

Michael, download Irfanview, and save your pictures to PNG.

Joe Redifer · 03/26/2008, 02:33 PM

JPG doesn't have to look bad. It only gets that "mosquito noise" when it is severely compressed. in Photoshop, I never set the level below 7. 8 is preferred.

Turbo D · 03/26/2008, 04:16 PM

Photoshop will work wonders for your jpegs. I use the highest quality; i think its 12. They still look good after being uploaded to photobucket.

SignOfZeta · 03/26/2008, 05:10 PM

QuoteHe's using .JPG.... >_<

Yeah, and using the absolute lowest quality jpeg possible. Jpeg can look almost as good as a .bmp if the compression is used in moderation.

PCEngineHell · 03/26/2008, 06:10 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 03/26/2008, 02:33 PMJPG doesn't have to look bad. It only gets that "mosquito noise" when it is severely compressed. in Photoshop, I never set the level below 7. 8 is preferred.

Very true,and I was downsizing alot,but part of that reason was to save a tad bit of space on the file size. Usually anything I slap up on photobucket is PNG for auctions,but on threads I don't want to get people complaining about file sizes. I guess you cant win either way,so here is your PNG request:

./Amakusa666/mainshot.png

spenoza · 03/26/2008, 10:14 PM

I find that for the quality PNG files are quite small. Definitely smaller than JPEGs of comparable quality.

PNG is the internet picture format of the future, my fellows! Of the FUTURE!

Keranu · 03/27/2008, 12:29 AM

I always set my JPEG level to 8

.

spenoza · 03/27/2008, 12:55 PM

So, I can't get the Dragon Saber hi-res trick to work in any emulator. And Dragon Spirit requires far too many resets for me to want to bother doing it with my actual PCE.

nat · 03/27/2008, 12:58 PM

Quote from: guest on 03/27/2008, 12:55 PMSo, I can't get the Dragon Saber hi-res trick to work in any emulator. And Dragon Spirit requires far too many resets for me to want to bother doing it with my actual PCE.

They have to be "soft" resets (RUN+SELECT) not hard resets. So that means, you can't use the emulator's "RESET" funciton. You have to use whatever buttons you have set for RUN+SELECT.

SignOfZeta · 03/27/2008, 11:31 PM

Quote from: turbo D on 03/23/2008, 01:32 AMt2k has a bad-ass cheat list.

Sounds cool. Where the hell is it?

Turbo D · 03/28/2008, 02:25 AM

http://turbo2k.net/features/cheats.html

I like it cuz I can just click a letter and it takes me down the page

SignOfZeta · 03/28/2008, 06:39 AM

Nice.

nat · 03/28/2008, 11:16 AM

The tables on that cheat page look like they were taken straight from PCECP.

spenoza · 03/28/2008, 02:25 PM

Yeah, that's what I did. Still didn't work. Not in Mednafen or Ootake. Bastards! (the emulators, not you)

nat · 03/28/2008, 03:50 PM

Yeah it's got to be the way the emulators handle resets. Maybe the emulator completely wipes the emulated "RAM" whereas the actual system doesn't.

TurboXray · 03/28/2008, 03:51 PM

Quote from: guest on 03/28/2008, 02:25 PMYeah, that's what I did. Still didn't work. Not in Mednafen or Ootake. Bastards! (the emulators, not you)

I just tried it in mednafen and it works fine. Hold down run and keep pressing select, not "run+select", release, then "run+select", etc. Don't count the resets, just keep doing the "hold run and pressing select rapidly" until you see the high res mode.

spenoza · 03/29/2008, 10:42 AM

Maybe I just need to have more patience... Not my strong point.

nat · 04/23/2008, 07:58 PM

I just played Dragon Spirit in arcade mode for the first time, and I have to say, the game plays 100% better. Maneuvering your monolith of a dragon around actually feels good. I don't know exactly what they did, but I can tell you they didn't "just squish the graphics" for arcade mode. It's no secret I've never been a very big fan of Dragon Spirit, but playing in arcade mode, the Turbo port went up a few notches in my book.

Ceti Alpha · 04/23/2008, 09:02 PM

Quote from: nat on 04/23/2008, 07:58 PMI just played Dragon Spirit in arcade mode for the first time, and I have to say, the game plays 100% better. Maneuvering your monolith of a dragon around actually feels good. I don't know exactly what they did, but I can tell you they didn't "just squish the graphics" for arcade mode. It's no secret I've never been a very big fan of Dragon Spirit, but playing in arcade mode, the Turbo port went up a few notches in my book.

You're absolutely right nat. I wasn't a fan of DS either, but one of the first things I did when I got my TG last week was input the arcade code and man, it's almost a totally different game. And yeah, it doesn't seem to me that they just "squished the graphics". It looks better.

So yeah, three cheers for arcade mode.

esteban · 04/23/2008, 09:18 PM

Quote from: ceti alpha on 04/23/2008, 09:02 PM
Quote from: nat on 04/23/2008, 07:58 PMI just played Dragon Spirit in arcade mode for the first time, and I have to say, the game plays 100% better. Maneuvering your monolith of a dragon around actually feels good. I don't know exactly what they did, but I can tell you they didn't "just squish the graphics" for arcade mode. It's no secret I've never been a very big fan of Dragon Spirit, but playing in arcade mode, the Turbo port went up a few notches in my book.
You're absolutely right nat. I wasn't a fan of DS either, but one of the first things I did when I got my TG last week was input the arcade code and man, it's almost a totally different game. And yeah, it doesn't seem to me that they just "squished the graphics". It looks better.

So yeah, three cheers for arcade mode.

Dragon Spirit rules. And some of those tunes are the best to grace our beloved console. I speak the truth.

Ceti Alpha · 04/23/2008, 09:33 PM

Quote from: esteban on 04/23/2008, 09:18 PM
Quote from: ceti alpha on 04/23/2008, 09:02 PM
Quote from: nat on 04/23/2008, 07:58 PMI just played Dragon Spirit in arcade mode for the first time, and I have to say, the game plays 100% better. Maneuvering your monolith of a dragon around actually feels good. I don't know exactly what they did, but I can tell you they didn't "just squish the graphics" for arcade mode. It's no secret I've never been a very big fan of Dragon Spirit, but playing in arcade mode, the Turbo port went up a few notches in my book.
You're absolutely right nat. I wasn't a fan of DS either, but one of the first things I did when I got my TG last week was input the arcade code and man, it's almost a totally different game. And yeah, it doesn't seem to me that they just "squished the graphics". It looks better.

So yeah, three cheers for arcade mode.
Dragon Spirit rules. And some of those tunes are the best to grace our beloved console. I speak the truth.

Praise the lord!!!

futurematt · 06/17/2010, 11:29 AM

Hi, very interested by this topic, and will try out the codes. Thanks for all the research!

I would like to actually clarify whether the various games output at a higher resolution ie a greater number of pixels in each dimension for the image in question, as opposed to simply redrawing the image in different proportions.

I am a resolution nerd and have always bought RGB and more recently component / VGA / HDMI cables for my systems, so I'm intrigued about getting the best image available.

The other linked subject, is that certain games eg R-Type, Legend of Hero Tonma and Ninja Spirit, output a very much higher horizontal resolution image (say 700 x 500) than the usual 4/3 or 400 x 300 image. You can tell this when running the ROMS on an emulator on 1:1 mode. You wouldn't know if you were just putting the image out on your TV.

In all of this, you really need to test it running on an emulator (which I will!) to see whether the 1:1 image changes shape and size.

Mathius · 06/17/2010, 01:36 PM

This is a very interesting thread! I didn't even know it existed until futurematt bumped it. As already stated earlier some of these codes are crazy long, especially considering the impact some have on gameplay. It's like the programmers didn't want people discovering them. Heh, who knows?

SNKNostalgia · 06/17/2010, 04:57 PM

I never saw this thread either... Awesomeness!!!

One thing I like do with my flat screen standard CRTs is to use the service mode to change the image size and position. For example, the Neo Geo is kinda zoomed in a bit, so I have to shrink the width and height some. Then you got systems like the PS2 where the image isn't stretched out enough and is off centered to the right a bit. BTW, this comes in handy with games on the NES on the left side of the screen like Mega Man.

The Duo seems to be harder to mess with as some of the image on the top and a lot on the bottom is actually meant to be cut off from the display. The width on the other hand seems to be just right. You will notice that if you shrink the height enough on some games, you will see glitchy moving graphics that are from the top of the screen almost like they sort of connect.

I highly recommend messing the service mode to get desired results. You can fix geometry problems, get more correct colors, etc... I know it is a little OCD having to access it all the time depending on what system you are playing, but it is rewarding to have a perfect image. Just remember that if you don't know what your doing in the menu, you can mess up the settings on your TV. Good news if you use a Sony Wega/Trinitron, it will reset to the factory image if you unplug the TV, unless of course you save the settings with a certain command.