Composite, S-Video and Component Comparison Shots

[electrochip]

So I modded a couple of units with S-Video using a CXA1645 to convert the RGB into S-Video and a CVS287 to convert RGB to Component. I noticed a big difference in clarity and colors. It looks like the original composite signal is washed out on the TG16/PCE/Duo and much better with the CXA1645. I'm using a 27" JVC CRT SDTV.

TG16/PCE/DUO Composite




Composite out from CXA1645




S-Video out from CXA1645




Component out from CVS287




TG16/PCE/DUO Composite




Composite out from CXA1645



S-Video out from CXA1645




Component out from CVS287




TG16/PCE/DUO Composite




Composite out from CXA1645



S-Video out from CXA1645




Component out from CVS287

[Ceti Alpha]

Nice comparisons.

It's not "OMG! L@@k AT TEH DIFF!!", but you can definitely see where the SVid is cleaner and sharper.

[SignOfZeta]

I'm using a JROK s-video encoder for my MVS and the results are absolutely amazing. Way WAY better than any (non-modified) Neo Geo home system.

[electrochip]

It looks much better in person, honestly. Reading text in composite makes my eyes bleed

[Tatsujin]

Sure, S-Video >>>>>>>> AV Composite, that's absolutely no new story. But I am more amazed by the composite comparison between oiginal output and CXA output.

[electrochip]

Sure, S-Video >>>>>>>> AV Composite, that's absolutely no new story. But I am more amazed by the composite comparison between oiginal output and CXA output.

Me too, I couldn't believe the difference in composite outputs. Anyways I added component out as well.

[nat]

I'm shocked at the difference between component and S-VIDEO in that Castlevania shot.

[electrochip]

me too, I'm going to do more comparisons and see if it's the tv adjustments or I need to add pots on the RGB lines.

[electrochip]

ok my color saturation was WAY off on Composite and S-Video, I fixed and uploaded new pictures. Sorry about that, I just got the tv a few weeks ago and haven't fine tuned it yet. I think I have it just right now.

[SignOfZeta]

Sure, S-Video >>>>>>>> AV Composite, that's absolutely no new story. But I am more amazed by the composite comparison between oiginal output and CXA output.

I'm not that surprised. I mean, look at how composite looks on systems like Neo Geo AES or Mega Drive (f-ing awful) compared to PC Engine or SNES (rather good). Assuming there is no problem with the RGB video coming straight out of the video chip then the issue with the Neo and MD must be crappy encoders. Their issue being, I assume, that they have their composite circuits integrated into other chips which causes noise and such from RF and the sharing of voltage supplies with other things.

[electrochip]

Sure, S-Video >>>>>>>> AV Composite, that's absolutely no new story. But I am more amazed by the composite comparison between oiginal output and CXA output.

I'm not that surprised. I mean, look at how composite looks on systems like Neo Geo AES or Mega Drive (f-ing awful) compared to PC Engine or SNES (rather good). Assuming there is no problem with the RGB video coming straight out of the video chip then the issue with the Neo and MD must be crappy encoders. Their issue being, I assume, that they have their composite circuits integrated into other chips which causes noise and such from RF and the sharing of voltage supplies with other things.

The Neo's and the early MD's use the craptastic CXA1145, rainbow banding and fuzziness everywhere. The last MD models used the CXA1645, which gives better composite and S-Video.

[SignOfZeta]

Too bad the sound went to shit on the MDs right about the time the video got better.

[Tatsujin]

Sure, S-Video >>>>>>>> AV Composite, that's absolutely no new story. But I am more amazed by the composite comparison between oiginal output and CXA output.

I'm not that surprised. I mean, look at how composite looks on systems like Neo Geo AES or Mega Drive (f-ing awful) compared to PC Engine or SNES (rather good). Assuming there is no problem with the RGB video coming straight out of the video chip then the issue with the Neo and MD must be crappy encoders. Their issue being, I assume, that they have their composite circuits integrated into other chips which causes noise and such from RF and the sharing of voltage supplies with other things.

That's exactly why I am so surprised, because I thought the PCEs composite was already as good as possible. But it was not.

[SignOfZeta]

Ah, yeah, I see what you mean.

[ccovell]

Those are some nice comparison shots.  If you have Doraemon handy, could you take some comparison pictures of the title screen?  On this screen, Gigazombie's "head jewel" and the (bloody?) red dot on Nobita-kun's hand (look for it) are good indicators of colour wash-out with composite (and possibly S-Video?) encoders:

[Tatsujin]

Pure RGB pictures without scanlines always looking ugly as hell. Like those old PC games on VGA monitors. That's why I hated PC games mostly, but loved amiga etc. games back in the 80s.

[ccovell]

I actually felt the opposite back in the day.  Regular Amiga games with visible scanlines always bothered me.  I preferred the scandoubled modes by far.

PC games I hated because they were PC games, not because of something more superficial like display types.

[Joe Redifer]

That's evil, Chris.  Red seems to be one of the hardest colors for most SD to handle, especially in NTSC.  That red dot will surely be washed away even in s-video.  Kind of like the hearts and life bar still "bleed" in Super Castlevania IV on whatever system that is.  I don't have the Doreamon game, but if I did I'd take a picture of my screen with the transcoded YUV setup on my fantastic TurboGrafx-16 CD-ROM.

[Tatsujin]

PC games I hated because they were PC games, not because of something more superficial like display types.

Yeah, also because of that, but having no visible scanlines (like on a TV or amiga etc. monitor) steals the whole arcade feeling.

Because your Doraemon pic shows no scanlines, it looks awful as hell (to me).

[Joe Redifer]

Me, too.

[ccovell]

Yeah, but scanlines means snapshots of CRTs and that means blur, moiré patterns, reflections, and a nasty curvature.



Scanlines are nice when playing, but when putting pics on a webpage, a direct RGB capture from the system is the best, I think.

[electrochip]

I added the doraemon shots.

[Joe Redifer]

Nice shots there, electrochip.

I agree that photographing CRT displays is an art unto itself and resizing the picture in very small steps to avoid moiré is important.  But it doesn't mean it can be done and reflect the quality differences at hand.  Electrochip did pretty well with his Doreamon shots, but his shots previous to that aren't done as well.

[electrochip]

Nice shots there, electrochip.

I agree that photographing CRT displays is an art unto itself and resizing the picture in very small steps to avoid moiré is important.  But it doesn't mean it can be done and reflect the quality differences at hand.  Electrochip did pretty well with his Doreamon shots, but his shots previous to that aren't done as well.

I agree taking shots of a CRT is hard, you can see I got better doing it by the time I got to the Doraemon shots. I wanted to give people an idea as to what to expect with any video mod. I've managed to make some people rethink the quality of the composite out of the PCE, which was supposed to be great. I thought it looked great too, until I dropped in a CXA1645 and compared them, and S-Video is no doubt WAY better, then component is another step up. People should at least do the S-Video and see all the colors and details that were missed in their favorite games.

[ccovell]

Overall, the CXA colour is more vibrant in composite, but I think I see one thing that's degraded: areas of grey, like the Gigazombie's mask, have rainbow interference in the CXA composite pic but not in the original Turbo composite.

[electrochip]

Overall, the CXA colour is more vibrant in composite, but I think I see one thing that's degraded: areas of grey, like the Gigazombie's mask, have rainbow interference in the CXA composite pic but not in the original Turbo composite.

You are right, there is a little rainbowing with the CXA1645, using a CXA2075 would eliminate almost all the rainbows. I didn't have any extras though.

[Ceti Alpha]

Wow. The new shots you put up, electro, are great. The difference between composite and composite out from CXA1645 is impressive.

[electrochip]

Wow. The new shots you put up, electro, are great. The difference between composite and composite out from CXA1645 is impressive.

Thanks, the composite out is really nice from the CXA1645, but s-video is better 

I'm glad I wired it up, at first I wasn't going to as I was content with the way the TG16/PCE/DUO looked already. I was definitely surprised at the difference.

[electrochip]

another request added.

[ccovell]

I've added more PCE, SFC, and a ton of Mega Drive pics to my RGB comparison page:

https://www.chrismcovell.com/gotRGB/rgb_compare.html
https://www.chrismcovell.com/gotRGB/rgb_compare2.html

[Ceti Alpha]

I've added more PCE, SFC, and a ton of Mega Drive pics to my RGB comparison page:

https://www.chrismcovell.com/gotRGB/rgb_compare.html
https://www.chrismcovell.com/gotRGB/rgb_compare2.html

Awesome comparisons, covell. 

Gaiares looks pretty sweet on the Genny in RGB.