CD-ROM System and CD-R Reliability?

[MottZilla]

Not sure if this is off limits or against the rules here but I don't think it is.

I've heard before hearsay that CD-Rs are in general bad for the hardware. Things like they are harder to read. Which I do understand that a low quality burn is going to be more prone to read errors or need the laser to boost power, if the hardware can do that, can it? Atleast I've heard that. When I had my first DUO I bought some supposively premium quality Taiyo Yuden CD-Rs. And yes they were legit, not knockoffs. However I still had the issue where the Lens sled gets stuck on the edge of the track. I had to manually push it back torward the center of the track so it could move again atleast a few times. And I think I had some game or games that this occurred with more often.

So what is everyone's experience with CD-Rs and PC-Engine, particularly DUOs? Also I was wondering if anyone has tried using 74 minute CD-Rs rather than the 80 minute ones as I was wondering if that was a factor in the lens sled getting stuck. Or if anyone tried using the "Gold" CD-Rs, the premium archive expensive discs.

And just to be clear, I recently decided to buy a DUO-R and start collecting some PCE games. But CD-Rs are nice to tide you over for awhile. ;)

[SignOfZeta]

The sled getting stuck is a separate issue. This is really common with CD-Rs, but it has nothing to do with laser power or readability or anything like that. The 74 min idea might be the trick, but you'll have to actually find some. Are they being made anymore? It also might not help at all. How many PC Engine games actually run data right out to the end of the disc anyway? BTW, I'm not sure if this hang-up actually occurs with non-Duos. I had it happen to my US Duo, but never with my Duo R or PCE+CDROM2

There are a lot of people that do think that CD-Rs destroy the lenses in PC Engine/TG-16 systems. Personally, I think its a load of superstitious crap. The system does have a harder time reading these disks (you'll find that they skip easier) but unless someone at least comes up with a realistic theory as to why actual damage would happen, then I'm not buying it. I very rarely play CD-Rs (not much interest) but I have played stuff like the Startling Odyssey english translation for more than a few hours with no problems.

[termis]

I've never had problems with CD-Rs in my Duo (the dark gray unit).  About the only difference is that some CD-R games might not load for some time unless I lightly tap the unit itself -- and this only happened with certain games (Ys IV + English patch CD-R comes to mind...).  I've never had any gears getting stuck or anything like that.  Oh, and I was never picky with media -- I always bought whatever was cheap/on sale.

Personally, I don't care even if it does shorten the life of the CD-laser, as the laser eye is pretty damn cheap to replace. 

I've also had a SCD-ROM2 unit, and THAT made some nasty gear-crunching noises when I played CD-Rs.

[Tatsujin]

My suggestion: Better you start real obeying and appreciating the games, makes sooo much more fun to play them.

[SignOfZeta]

My suggestion: Better you start real obeying and appreciating the games, makes sooo much more fun to play them.

In general I agree, but to gaijin Ys IV is more fun patched.

[jperryss]

I've had no issues with CD-Rs on my white Duo-R, and I'm with the 'it's superstitious crap' team.

[Official Ninja]

I swear my duo-r loads CD-R faster than original games. I use SONY 80 min media and burn at 4x. My duo-r can read media burned at any speed. My brother also has a duo-r and his can only read cd-r burned at 4x or less. It has no troubles at all playing games that are burned at 4x speed though.

[MottZilla]

My suggestion: Better you start real obeying and appreciating the games, makes sooo much more fun to play them.

This is actually the plan, but realistically I'm not going to be able to get certain games that soon and some ever due to price. While eventually I will be able to pickup alot of the games that interest me like Dracula X, others seem out of reach like Sapphire. Spending 100$ or so on a game like Dracula X I can probably do. But Sapphire I've seen listed for alot more than that, though I can't really say I have a ballpark price for that one. Also by having some CD-Rs to play I can focus first on HuCard games that I largely ignored with my first DUO. I bought a lot of 10 loose hucards that should arrive around the same time as my DUO-R. I would prefer to have all complete games but since I'm just getting started I want to have a decent bunch of titles to play. But I plan to just carefully overtime pickup games I want to build a collection I will enjoy.

The Gold archiving type CD-Rs are 74 minute discs with atleast a claimed 300 year storage life. So they should be stable and I would imagine with the right burner (not something old or worn out) they should be easy to read afterward.

But I'm glad to hear that it seems no one so far has said they've had any serious issues with CD-Rs and DUOs.

[blueraven]

My suggestion: Better you start real obeying and appreciating the games, makes sooo much more fun to play them.

Thumbs Up!

[Arkhan Asylum]

CD-Rs wont really damage your system unless you do the following:

1) Buy shitty ones
2) Burn them wrong


The problem is shitty discs aren't very reflecty.  Incorrectly burned discs are hard for the system to load.

The end result is it overworks itself trying to focus and load the data.  Making it reach the end of its expected lifespan a wholeeee lot faster.   This is just made up for examples sake but say the drive expects like, 10 million successful loads with real good discs....

if you give it shitty discs, it overworks itself and will only get 5 million successful loads instead.

If you use nice silverbottomed reflecty discs, or the gold ones....though those are kinda thick, and I think maybe heavier physical discs may do something bad, sort of like how PS2's hate the old, bluebottom discs when they are about to croak.  It might wear out the motor or gears or something.  Who knows.

Anyway just burn them at 1x w/ silvery bottomed discs, and you have nothing to worry about.  I play burned games in my duo-r all the time.  They put as much stress on the system as a commercial disc because they are basically a commercial disc without a fancy label.   


Silver bottoms, and proper burn speeds ! GO GO GO.   

You can get a stack of silver bottomed discs for like, 20$. 100 discs I think.   

http://www.emediadepot.com/Diamond_CD_R_True_Silver_s/24.htm

Them! Get some!

They work for the PC-FX too.  So, go buy a PC-FX !

[SignOfZeta]

Burn at 1x? With what, an Amiga? Most (all?) burners made in the last decade are hardware limited to at least 4x.

[OldRover]

You don't have to burn at 1x to get a successful burn. I've burned at 16x with no problems, and even on low-quality media. Some hardware is just more prone to breakdown, and it will break down eventually whether you use CDRs or not.

[nikdog]

Burn at 1x? With what, an Amiga? Most (all?) burners made in the last decade are hardware limited to at least 4x.

It's actually software limited. If you use the right program you can force it todo 1x. I've actually seen one a couple years back that would let you type in a speed.

Regardless, I still burn them at 24x and run data verification on them. Never had a problem. I have 2 spare lasers and I can get an NEC CDR-35D on online for the gear.

[MottZilla]

The problem is shitty discs aren't very reflecty.  Incorrectly burned discs are hard for the system to load.

The end result is it overworks itself trying to focus and load the data.  Making it reach the end of its expected lifespan a wholeeee lot faster.   This is just made up for examples sake but say the drive expects like, 10 million successful loads with real good discs....

if you give it shitty discs, it overworks itself and will only get 5 million successful loads instead.

If you use nice silverbottomed reflecty discs, or the gold ones....though those are kinda thick, and I think maybe heavier physical discs may do something bad, sort of like how PS2's hate the old, bluebottom discs when they are about to croak.  It might wear out the motor or gears or something.  Who knows.
Anyway just burn them at 1x w/ silvery bottomed discs, and you have nothing to worry about.  I play burned games in my duo-r all the time.  They put as much stress on the system as a commercial disc because they are basically a commercial disc without a fancy label.  

I don't think the color of the bottom is the issue. Different color dyes is less important than the quality/stability of the dye. I'm not sure what you mean by thick or heavier. CD-ROMs definitely have size specifications they follow, so it shouldn't be any bigger or thicker. Any weight difference should be negligible. I don't think the PS2s having problems reading CD-ROM (blue) discs has anything to do with the color of the disc. Afterall, the laser doesn't see or care what color it is, only how well it reflects light.

[SignOfZeta]

Burn at 1x? With what, an Amiga? Most (all?) burners made in the last decade are hardware limited to at least 4x.

It's actually software limited. If you use the right program you can force it todo 1x. I've actually seen one a couple years back that would let you type in a speed.

Yeah, you can type in whatever you want into some programs (CDRWin maybe?) but if the drive doesn't know how to spin that slow, it just won't. This has been my experience.

[Joe Redifer]

Burn at 1x? With what, an Amiga? Most (all?) burners made in the last decade are hardware limited to at least 4x.

Pfff, I can't even burn that slow.  It seems my drives bottom out at 8X.  I do have a sweet burner on my PC that maxes out at 4x, though.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I don't think the color of the bottom is the issue. Different color dyes is less important than the quality/stability of the dye. I'm not sure what you mean by thick or heavier. CD-ROMs definitely have size specifications they follow, so it shouldn't be any bigger or thicker. Any weight difference should be negligible. I don't think the PS2s having problems reading CD-ROM (blue) discs has anything to do with the color of the disc. Afterall, the laser doesn't see or care what color it is, only how well it reflects light.

The color of the disc directly effects how well it reflects light, lol.  Dark ones don't reflect as good.

Hang some shitty old CDs from your ceiling a'la record store decor and watch the light bounce off them.

Then, hang some blue bottom discs, and watch the bouncyness be less awesome. 

from what I remember talking to MissaFX, 1-4x is the sweet spot for burning games.   I use a SCSI burner, its pretty good.   

and, there are definitely CD-Rs out there that are thicker.  Theyre the ones that when you stick them in a dying PS2, you hear lots of funny noises as the surface of the disc brushes up against plastic.   The Action Replay disc is like that.    Pretty lame.

In any event, this is all horse shit if you have a Duo-R.  That hardware is pretty solid.  It can take a beating, as opposed to the original CD hardware that cannot..  Just burn them on discs that aren't pieces of shit, and play them.  I still recommend the silverbottom ones just because I like them.

[MottZilla]

Well I was thinking you meant something against the dyes that look Cyan, Green, or Blue somehow based on the color being less effective. I'm not sure why you like the silver looking bottom CD-Rs. I guess a similar appearance to a pressed CD is nice but stability and solid reflectivity are most important. How well they reflect light when you hang them as decorations though is different than how well red laser light reflects off the reflective surface. And I know CD-RWs with their dark appearance are alot harder to read. But I agree just don't use cheap shitty discs. And since I bought a DUO-R I'm definitely happy to hear most have not had as many problems with it compared to the older model which I previously had.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Mirrors, the most reflective thing ever, are made of silver.

[MottZilla]

That may be, but again the point is just for a tiny red laser of light to reflect off the surface of the disc (or not) as intended. I think part of my dislike of silver bottom CD-Rs is I got some at some point that just plain sucked. I had something that was picky, probably a Playstation, that hated them but not Taiyo Yuden blue dye discs or original black bottom PS1 discs.

[Arkhan Asylum]

thats an interesting point...   I wonder how well those black CD-R's would fair in a turbob.


I know for a fact if you use shit CD-Rs in a PC-FX, the audio can, and will most likely skip. 

My silver discs work great, and ones burnt at the same speed on crappy green/blue dyed ones, have tons of audio bouncing problems.

[OldMan]

...original black bottom PS1 discs.

If you had -original- black bottom PS1 discs, you -wouldn't- have any problems. They were all pressed discs. Only made by Sony, for the PS1. With special region codes in the track control bits.

If you mean the cd-r's that were made in black, to look like ps1 discs, I *think* they were blue-dye discs. The problem with them was the colored plastic tended to block some of the laser signal. They were okay on most ps1's, but as the laser diode aged, they would stop reading. You could turn up the laser signal amp to make them work again, but you risked blowing the laser if you weren't careful....

And No, Arkhan, they don't work in a Turbo CD, at least the U.S. one I have. I tried.
But if you want to test one in a duo, I have a stack of 10 or so around.....

[SignOfZeta]

On a related note: I bough the OST for the new Tron (huge disappointment, the soundtrack, I haven't seen the movie) and it came on a black disc. Rather nostalgic for me...