Would you rather have a SuperGrafx or a PC-FX?

[Arkhan Asylum]

BATARU

ASARU

[kazekirifx]

I'm surprised by the results here. The SGX is such a novelty. The FX is much more like a real system to me. I guess that's because game library size is pretty much everything to me.

[TheClash603]

The PC-FX is pretty much only for people who can understand Japanese.  The Super Grafx is for anyone.

I don't own either, but I do plan on getting a Super Grafx some day.

[kazekirifx]

The PC-FX is pretty much only for people who can understand Japanese.  The Super Grafx is for anyone.

I can understand that point of view, but I think technically the PC-FX still has more titles which don't require Japanese to be enjoyed... by a hair. I think people may be just a bit overwhelmed by the sheer number of games which they find to be completely unplayable. It's an issue of just buying those games which can be enjoyed then.
Battle Heat
Zenki
Chip Chan Kick
Zeroigar
Tengai Makyou
Queen of Queens
Rururi Rarura (though I'm not sure anyone can 'enjoy' this one)
Pia Carrot (with English patch)
Edit: Akazukin Chacha

Also, if you can tolerate missing out on the story the following are also possible:
Der Langrisser FX
Farland Story FX
Last Imperial Prince (with walkthrough)
Team Innocent (with walkthrough)

[SamIAm]

If you're looking for action, I think the choice is clear.

Aldynes, 1941, Daimakaimura, Granzort and Battle Ace are probably going to give you higher quality, longer lasting playtime than Zeroigar, Zenki and CCK. The PC-FX may have 59 other games on top of those three, but none of them are full-blooded action games.

I've spent more time with Aldynes alone than I have with the entire PC-FX library, minus the time I've spent testing Zeroigar videos.

[jlued686]

I have both, but if I could only have one (and I already had a PC Engine/Duo/whatever) I'd keep the PC-FX. I don't play it much, but I do get a good bit of enjoyment out of it when I dust it off.

[thesteve]

i dont have the SG, but i do most of my obey on a modded express
when i do pull out a home sys its more oft than not the FX for zeroigar

[ccovell]

Already have wangus balaenis and a SGX, but I still wouldn't want a PC-FX.  Just an anime-coated doorstop.

[kazekirifx]

While I do like both systems, I have to admit both were sad missteps by NEC. Both had too few improvements over the PCE, and the improvements are not really all in the right areas.

[motdelbourt]

PC-FX looks sooo boring. I don't know that the Super Grafx looks cool, but it looks interesting.

I'm not at all familiar with the PC-FX library so I'd go with that. I'm interested in, JB Harold, or anything I could find with a bit of English. But from what I've seen, Aldynes seems to be better than the sum total of all PC-FX games.

[Arkhan Asylum]

The PC-FX is pretty much only for people who can understand Japanese.  The Super Grafx is for anyone.

I don't own either, but I do plan on getting a Super Grafx some day.

but:

Zeroigar
Zenki
Chip Chan Kick
Ruruli Ra Rura

There is already 4 games that don't require Japanese language abilities.

Add in Power League FX, there's 5.

Nirgends, Last Imperial Prince, Boundary Gate.

Team Innocent.

Not so bad! more games than SGX

[ccovell]

Not so bad! more games than SGX

Tiger Game.Com had more games than SGX...

[SignOfZeta]

The PC-FX is pretty much only for people who can understand Japanese.  The Super Grafx is for anyone.

I don't own either, but I do plan on getting a Super Grafx some day.

but:

Zeroigar
Zenki
Chip Chan Kick
Ruruli Ra Rura

There is already 4 games that don't require Japanese language abilities.

Add in Power League FX, there's 5.

Nirgends, Last Imperial Prince, Boundary Gate.

Team Innocent.

Not so bad! more games than SGX

This whole "Japanese language" thing is not the reason the FX is borderline useless.

Take, for example, I don't know, JAPAN. Everyone there speaks Japanese and they all went with the Saturn or PS. The language only seems like a problem if you don't speak it and you get all hung up on not being able to speak it. Even if you CAN speak it a digital comic is still just clicking "A" over and over and again, and a game with upskirt shots of 11 years olds is still creepy.

[Joe Redifer]

I'd much rather own a SuperGrafx,  It has many, MANY more games that are actually somewhat appealing.  Almost 5 times as many appealing games.  I don't know what they were thinking with their plan for the PC-FX.  Instead of giving us a bunch of anime bullshit, they should have given us real videogames.  But that was back during the FMV fad and EVERYBODY had to get on board, I guess.

I'm willing to bet that Aaron's PC-FX video is 40 to 50 times better than the PC-FX itself.

[Otaking]

wangus equinus all the way.

[Frank_fjs]

The SGX just seems a safer choice. Either system is going to require a bit of a cash outlay for most people, so it's more comforting to know that an SGX can still be used to play regular PCE games if all else fails.

The PC-FX on the other hand, games for it are much harder to track down and really don't seem that appealing to me. Plus it's bulky & more expensive to ship and there's always the stress of how long the CD mechanism will last.

[Arkhan Asylum]

The PC-FX is pretty much only for people who can understand Japanese.  The Super Grafx is for anyone.

I don't own either, but I do plan on getting a Super Grafx some day.

but:

Zeroigar
Zenki
Chip Chan Kick
Ruruli Ra Rura

There is already 4 games that don't require Japanese language abilities.

Add in Power League FX, there's 5.

Nirgends, Last Imperial Prince, Boundary Gate.

Team Innocent.

Not so bad! more games than SGX

This whole "Japanese language" thing is not the reason the FX is borderline useless.

Take, for example, I don't know, JAPAN. Everyone there speaks Japanese and they all went with the Saturn or PS. The language only seems like a problem if you don't speak it and you get all hung up on not being able to speak it. Even if you CAN speak it a digital comic is still just clicking "A" over and over and again, and a game with upskirt shots of 11 years olds is still creepy.

Yeah, but we are just comparing the PCFX and SGX right now, lol. 

I'd much rather own a SuperGrafx,  It has many, MANY more games that are actually somewhat appealing.  Almost 5 times as many appealing games.  I don't know what they were thinking with their plan for the PC-FX.  Instead of giving us a bunch of anime bullshit, they should have given us real videogames.  But that was back during the FMV fad and EVERYBODY had to get on board, I guess.

I'm willing to bet that Aaron's PC-FX video is 40 to 50 times better than the PC-FX itself.

I hope you were just trying to be funny here, since I just named more games than the SGX that are worth playing on PC-FX

[BigusSchmuck]

The PC-FX is pretty much only for people who can understand Japanese.  The Super Grafx is for anyone.

I can understand that point of view, but I think technically the PC-FX still has more titles which don't require Japanese to be enjoyed... by a hair. I think people may be just a bit overwhelmed by the sheer number of games which they find to be completely unplayable. It's an issue of just buying those games which can be enjoyed then.
Battle Heat
Zenki
Chip Chan Kick
Zeroigar
Tengai Makyou
Queen of Queens
Rururi Rarura (though I'm not sure anyone can 'enjoy' this one)
Pia Carrot (with English patch)
Edit: Akazukin Chacha

Also, if you can tolerate missing out on the story the following are also possible:
Der Langrisser FX
Farland Story FX
Last Imperial Prince (with walkthrough)
Team Innocent (with walkthrough)

I'm pretty sure if they were translated into english we wouldn't be having this discussion. The language barrier (at least for me) is a big turn off and I'm sure there are others that feel the same way.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Some of the games mentioned require 0 Japanese.

Also, I didn't see that kazekirifx posted a list too.

the top 4 games on his list are all action games and require no reading.

Power League FX is sweet, and I hate baseball.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

This whole "Japanese language" thing is not the reason the FX is borderline useless.

Take, for example, I don't know, JAPAN. Everyone there speaks Japanese and they all went with the Saturn or PS. The language only seems like a problem if you don't speak it and you get all hung up on not being able to speak it. Even if you CAN speak it a digital comic is still just clicking "A" over and over and again, and a game with upskirt shots of 11 years olds is still creepy.

I know it'll be difficult, but try not to be a moron.  This discussion is about the SGX and its five games and the PC-FX and its library, and has been said many, many times: there's more to the PC-FX's library than digital comics.

[CrackTiger]

Take, for example, I don't know, JAPAN. Everyone there speaks Japanese and they all went with the Saturn or PS. The language only seems like a problem if you don't speak it and you get all hung up on not being able to speak it. Even if you CAN speak it a digital comic is still just clicking "A" over and over and again, and a game with upskirt shots of 11 years olds is still creepy.

In North America everyone (who counts by this rationale) speaks English, and they went with the Genesis or SNES. I guess the Turbo library is just that terrible.

The PCE was a success in JAPAN, because of the types of games you don't like that the PC-FX library is full of. If the PCE stuck more to Western friendly games like the Mega Dive did, it would have done poorer like the Mega Drive. The Saturn and Playstation also have a huge amount of 11 year old rape sims, if they didn't, then the PC-FX likely would had done better.

It is creepy how dismissive people can be of Japanese-centric entertainment in comparison to good ole wholesome western-friendly entertainment.

[SamIAm]

I don't think the problem is that it's Japanese-centric, it's that it's flat out bad entertainment, and SignOfZeta has a point. Japanese people rejected this stuff. Where's Policenaughts? Where's Sakura Taisen? Where's Dinosaur Island? Where's Machi? All of those are games in the same style as the one's people don't like on the PCFX, but the difference is that they're embraced by the fans as good.

On the PC-FX, Nirgends is OK, although extremely repetitive and coupled with a shitty flight simulator. First Kiss Monogatari is apparently a good dating sim, and the Can Can Bunny Extra and Welcome to Pia Carrot combo is a decent little hentai pack for the time. Most of the rest of the Japanese text-heavy gameplay-light stuff, though, is below par, at least as far as I know them.

EDIT: I've mentioned this before, but it bears repeating: The one thing I keep seeing Japanese people write about in regard to the PC-FX is that it had no games that had anybody coming around saying "You've gotta see this!" back in the day.

[Ji-L87]

The Saturn and Playstation also have a huge amount of 11 year old rape sims, if they didn't, then the PC-FX likely would had done better.

But the Saturn & PlayStation are more censored, right? They should've brought Steam Hearts to the FX, now that would've been something, alright!
This reminds me of when I sat down to play EVE on the Saturn. There actually is a number of adult scenes in the game (was PC-98 game after all) but they didn't remove them completely, with enough "sound" left in to clear any doubts about what was going on. Felt rather odd, they should've just left it out completely, but then their story would've been a mess. Wait. It already was : |

/off-topic

Perverted and possibly "sub-par" games or not, I just find the FX a lot more interesting than the SGX and given the choice, I know what I would pick. But I'm repeating myself.

[SignOfZeta]

The PCE was a success in JAPAN, because of the types of games you don't like that the PC-FX library is full of.

This just isn't true. If you look at the existence of the PCE as a whole, it started out hot and then lost mainstream appeal as time went on. Digital Comics didn't really take over until well into the Super Famicom era when the PCE was basically fucked sales-wise. The PCE just got more ota-focused in order to keep existing. This is a good strategy at the end of a system's life, but no way to launch a new one.

Without question the reason the FX was designed the way it was is because they were designing a sequel to the PCE as it existed in 1994...but by that time it had basically become an overpriced digital comic machine for otaku shut-ins who wish girls had dicks so they could more easily relate. This was NEC just being stupid and, from what I can tell, operating more or less on their own. Hudson did release FIVE different full-on Bomberman games for SFC after all, as well as some Momotaro stuff and even Tengai Makyo Zero and didn't do much of anything for the FX. I like Yuna, but it wasn't what made the PCE and it wasn't going to propel a new machine into the future.

I like digital comics, btw, so don't take this so personally. I've cleared Sakura Wars 1-4 at least a half dozen times each, and I've beaten Yuna 1&2 and Tokimeki Memorial about as many times. I'm just saying that the Playstation and Saturn can and DID do everything the FX did, but they actually had Virtua Fighter and Ridge Racer and Panzer Dragoon and Street Fighter and KOF and shit like that. The FX just...didn't. While the library isn't exactly low quality, its INCREDIBLY inbred at the near total expense of any genre other than "wank". This is why it totally fucking tanked and was marked down 10,000 yen almost overnight when the Playstation was still sometimes hard to find at any price.

When people think PCE they think:

Shooters (there is one on FX, and its not really so awesome)
Platformers (none on FX)
Bomberman (WTF, are these so hard to make? Hudson even make Mega Bomberman for MD and fucking nobody bought that)
Strategy (Power Dolls is...OK, I guess, but why did Yuna 3 go to Saturn!?)
RPGs (these certainly do exist on PCE, but most are rather lightweight and uninspired. Most. Like high res PCE games, nice, but not exactly FFIV, DQ V, Romancing Saga, Chrono Trigger type stuff)
Digital Comics (even these, IMO, lack the originality of the PCE stuff)

Where is Devil's Crush, Ys, Castlevania, Gate of Thunder? Fuck, even Wonder Momo. How about the boring stuff that people forget even though it moves copies like Momotaro Dentetsu, horse racing sims, arcade ports and licensed sports games? There ain't jack shit.

This is why I said "its not about the language". It flopped in a place where the language was not an issue.

Also, the crack about pedophilia just being a cultural difference between the two countries is fucking bullshit. Most Japanese think that shit is creepy as hell too, even if it is a lot more tolerated there, and its insulting to well adjusted Japanese to insinuate that jerking off to pictures of children is just another part of being Japanese like beaf bowls and kei cars. I'm not saying that the US doesn't have all sorts of fucked up shit (its way more fucked up, honestly. Wolf Creak? Law and Order SVU? All those fps arab killer games?) but it doesn't make masturbating to pictures of tied up 12 year olds whimpering any less FUKT than it is.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Ruruli Ra Rura is a platformer.

It's not a perfect game, but it aint bad.

There are a ton of FX strategy games.  Sparkling Feather is a good one.

so is Langrisser!

and, the Boundary Gate release for PCFX is better than the PSX one.  woo

[SamIAm]

You know, the PC-FX might have had a chance as a digital comic machine in the mid-90s if it had done a few things differently. If it started and stayed below the competition in price, if NEC courted developers with tools for making digital comics efficiently early on, if they embraced digital comics as the heart and soul of their image, and if NEC put together quality first-party development teams to pump out exclusives...then maybe it would have worked.

The fact that Hudson basically abandoned NEC and NEC didn't seem to do much to try to replace them is another baffling part of the whole PC-FX story.

[SignOfZeta]

Nah, Bandai basically did that with the Playdia and that didn't work either.

[jlued686]

The thing is, and you've gotta be honest about this: that while the PC-FX had a handful of good games, some of which were really unique, it didn't have any great games. The Saturn and PS1 had shitloads of games that could be considered great.

I still voted PC-FX, but I'm able to put it into perspective. Like a previous commenter said, there were no games that were absolute "you've gotta see this!" system sellers.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Hell, the PCFX is cheaper!

though, you could get the whole SGX library + system cheaper than the whole PCFX library + system...

neither has alot of games.

[Joe Redifer]

I hope you were just trying to be funny here, since I just named more games than the SGX that are worth playing on PC-FX

I was being semi-serious, but to be honest I can't truly judge because I've never even played the PC-FX.  I can say that the game examples I've seen so far don't seem tremendously appealing in a "I'd love to play this" type of way.  But I'd still love to try the system itself and a bucket of its games just for the sake of playing it.

[kazekirifx]

I'm willing to bet that Aaron's PC-FX video is 40 to 50 times better than the PC-FX itself.

Haha. That's really true in a way. At least, it makes the hardware design look way more awesome than the content of the game library generally is. On that note, I, like many people here, was pretty much convinced to buy the system back in the late 90's thanks to the awesome graphic design of pcengine-fx.com. It may not look like much now, but back then this was one of the most beautiful sites on the Internet.

Some of the games mentioned require 0 Japanese.

Also, I didn't see that kazekirifx posted a list too.
the top 4 games on his list are all action games and require no reading.
Power League FX is sweet, and I hate baseball.

Oh yeah. Forgot Power League FX. Forgot that one.

Ruruli Ra Rura is a platformer.

It's not a perfect game, but it aint bad.

It ain't? Cool. This is the first time I met anyone who enjoyed it. Never heard anyone comment much at all about this game, come to think of it.

...and SignOfZeta has a point. Japanese people rejected this stuff.

And they didn't reject the SGX? Pretty much a moot point when discussing two systems which were both huge commercial failures. If anything, the PC-FX is the winner on this point since NEC didn't immediately pull the plug on it. There was certainly a handful of hardcore 'FX freaks', no matter how small the handful was, who kept purchasing the few games released until the end.


Personally, I can honestly say I have logged a lot of hours on my FX, and have plenty of great memories - mostly of playing Blue Breaker, which I wrote the walkthrough for on gamefaqs. The FX version is way better than the Saturn or PS1 in my opinion. Also, Fire Woman Matoigumi was magical.  I really enjoyed searching out and unlocking everything in that charming gem of a game. There are quite a few other games I put the time in and finished, including some digital comics, but the two aforementioned games are really the standouts for me. Definitely a minority here.

[SignOfZeta]

I don't think it was the Japanese public that rejected the SGX. It seems to have been killed by NEC before it was even released but put on sale anyway because NEC fucking loved selling hardware, even if it was useless.

The SGX launched with one game, Battle Ace. It was five months before Granzort, then another four months before Daimakaimura. A whole year after that you still only had two more games, and by then they weren't even making the machine anymore. Darius was somewhere in the middle there.

It's pretty obvious they couldn't get any developers. The system didn't even have an actual "second generation" of software, just stuff that got so delayed it took as long to get as second generation software. Honestly, I see where they were coming from. The SGX is like...%10 more powerful than the PCE, maybe, which might have mattered if PCE devs were regularly pushing the system to the %100 point, but of course they usually weren't even close.

What was Hudson supposed to do? Make a version of Gate of Thunder that only runs on a version of the PCE that costs twice as much and has...what, an extra layer of scrolling? Nobody would even be able to tell.

Famicom to Super Famicom, MkIII to Genesis, that's how you sequel a system. The SGX is more like...this year's MacBook compared to last year's MacBook. It's the same dang thing only it isn't paid for yet.

[SamIAm]

If the SGX games had been made for one of the other popular (and comparable) systems around at the time, they would still be regarded as good games. Particularly Daimakaimura, Aldynes and 1941. Regardless of the system, they were great games for their times.

If you move the PC-FX library to the Saturn or Playstation, however, the stuff just gets buried. Zeroigar and Zenki, as well as the better anime games, would be considered 2nd rate compared to the real heavyweights.

EDIT: In response to some of the above, I think the best way of looking it is to see that there is no way that the SGX would have been successful. Maybe if a miracle happened and the best game ever came out on it, it would have sold. With any less ideal conditions, though, it was doomed.

The PC-FX, on the other hand, had much more of a chance. Sure, they flubbed the hardware design, but even so, all they needed was a few really solid and distinctly next-gen games in 1995. Preferably including at least one great action game. It might not have lead the pack, but it wouldn't have sank like it did.

[SignOfZeta]

Yeah, the FX certainly *could* have done much better. Something like Sakura Wars 1/2 would have been at least as good on FX. Could it do Street Fighter Alpha or Donpatchi? As well as PS and SS? I have no idea. We only have retail games to use as a gauge of its power and those look like PC doujin most of the time. It certainly could have done Lunar, Tokimeki Memorial, and other quasi-hits like that.

[Arkhan Asylum]

http://pcfxtoo.com/rrr.htm

on my eventually-to-be-finished-after-Atlantean-orsomething PCFX library site!

[kazekirifx]

I think Team Innocent could have been a relatively popular title had it been released on another system. It was basically Resident Evil, except without any polygonal graphics and released 1 year and 3 months earlier. Apparently it didn't generate enough hype to sell the FX, but the main reason it isn't well-known is precisely because it was only released on an unpopular platform. (Kind of a 'chicken or the egg' problem I know...)

Guess in the end the game just didn't generate enough hype... Wasn't considered a must-play. The combat system and some of the sprite graphics were a bit too crappy I suppose.