So there's this Dino Force alpha version...

[Bardoly]

The reason I haven't said anything in regard to Marble Madness in some time is because there's nothing to say.  Outside of Sadler offering to let me borrow a multi-tap, there hasn't been a single member of this community offering up anything outside of "Gimme TEH ROMZ!"  You get more bees with honey, and more roms with tact. 

I'm no spokesman, but I'm very sorry if you perceived a general lack of interest or unwillingness to pony up for MM. From what I remember, you were adamant about keeping any reproduction/distribution discussion off the table while you gathered information. That was in July and then you disappeared. We should have been more proactive, but I think most of us were just respecting your wishes and waiting for you to make the next move.

I for one would eagerly contribute for the opportunity to play MM on the Turbo. We're not as numerous as Genesis fans or as well-heeled as Neo Geo collectors, but PCEFX members have shown real generosity donating time and money to projects like Mysterious Song and the repair forum. If you have any willingness to entertain offers, it you have would be a shame to let MM die without at least attempting a kickstarter or something.

Agreed.

[ParanoiaDragon]

The reason I haven't said anything in regard to Marble Madness in some time is because there's nothing to say.  Outside of Sadler offering to let me borrow a multi-tap, there hasn't been a single member of this community offering up anything outside of "Gimme TEH ROMZ!"  You get more bees with honey, and more roms with tact. 

I'm no spokesman, but I'm very sorry if you perceived a general lack of interest or unwillingness to pony up for MM. From what I remember, you were adamant about keeping any reproduction/distribution discussion off the table while you gathered information. That was in July and then you disappeared. We should have been more proactive, but I think most of us were just respecting your wishes and waiting for you to make the next move.

I for one would eagerly contribute for the opportunity to play MM on the Turbo. We're not as numerous as Genesis fans or as well-heeled as Neo Geo collectors, but PCEFX members have shown real generosity donating time and money to projects like Mysterious Song and the repair forum. If you have any willingness to entertain offers, it you have would be a shame to let MM die without at least attempting a kickstarter or something.

Agreed.

I 3rd that motion!!

[CrackTiger]

I haven't heard anything about beaglepuss making the MM rom available, so even if he did nanage to get ahold of this, the end result would likely he the same as if any of the other collectors who buy unreleased games to keep them from being released to the public gets it.

On the contrary...

Here are some links for you to consider:
-  My release of the unreleased Genesis title Beastball http://segaage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=43&threadid=55098 .  The Download can be found here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4f5kdjyHmF-ZDM5YjdiMzAtMWNlZS00MjExLThiOTgtNTgxMDUzYjU2ZDNh/edit?pli=1&hl=en_US

-  My release of the Unreleased Genesis title Swamp Thing  http://segaage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=49&threadid=41542

-  My release of the Unreleased Genesis game Dragon's Lair and the Unreleased NES game Arcadia VI  http://segaage.com/auth/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=49&threadid=52638

-  My release of the Unreleased NES game Kitty's Catch, Unreleased NES engine for Tommy T's Sound editor, and a host of other NES titles  http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=35&threadid=20492

-  My release of the unreleased NES game Hoppin' Mad  http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=31&threadid=20344

-  Although it's DreamTR's game, I dumped and repro'd Danny Sullivan's Indy Heat for the Genesis http://segaage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=43&threadid=53310

I'm currently in the process of releasing Bill's Tomato game for the Genesis, and it should be ready within the next month or two.  That release will fund the release of a few more unreleased NES titles I have had in the works for some time now.

Now, I have to ask, how many releases have you played a role in?  The question is rhetorical of course, as I'm sure I already know the answer.

Legitmate and legal releases of fully published TurboGrafx-16 games with full packaging? One so far. Illegal pirate/bootlegs? None so far.

Guess how much profit I cut for myself?

The reason I haven't said anything in regard to Marble Madness in some time is because there's nothing to say.  Outside of Sadler offering to let me borrow a multi-tap, there hasn't been a single member of this community offering up anything outside of "Gimme TEH ROMZ!"  You get more bees with honey, and more roms with tact. 

I'm not going to drop tens of thousands of dollars on a game(s) and get nothing in return, that's not how I operate.  If MM were a good candidate to be reproduced and offset my initial investment, that's what I would have done.  It wasn't, so I didn't.

If this Dino Force game is real, and it's on Assembler, then it's already too late.  The big time collectors will scoop this up and put it on a shelf (and no, they're not French).  A $5,000 community fund raiser wouldn't add up to a down payment for a game of this caliber.   

Repro carts are a neat novelty, but if it isn't cost effective for the kind of profit margin you need to make a release worthwhile, then why not sell the rom digitally or on a micro SD card for people to pop into their Turbo Everdrive? Just do pre-sells with the stipulation that a minimum number of copies must be pre-sold for it to happen. Feel free to not cap it and continue selling copies after that magic number is hit. The various CD formats are for the CD-ROM accessory. This would be a mini card for the Turbo Everdrive accessory. I'd be happy to design an SD-ROM logo and put together a manual and any kind of packaging designs for free and I'd still purchase a copy for myself.

[lord_cack]

I have been in this community for a long time. I have been working on developing games for the community for a long time as well. I think it is funny to be talking about turning a profit off of a 30+ year old videogame system. I know that I treat my hobbies far differently than others, I mean I sold off every classic videogame I had a couple of years back and outside of getting another Duo so I can play Mysterious Song, Jungle Bros., and other titles I have worked on (like Pyramid Plunder) on actual hardware I could really not concern myself with owning games. But, the "business" of classic gaming ALWAYS gets under my skin. I don't mean the business of MAKING games for my favorite classic console. As far as I can tell, there is no turning a profit involved in doing it. I do it for the fun of it. Its the business of selling classic games for REDICULOUS prices and lording your possessions over others. Not really my thing. I mean this community does alot of cool things with the raffles and what not so I am not saying ALL the people but, there is a segment of the community, usually a silent segment, that really just make me want to leave.... I don't really care, but everytime a hot issue like this comes up it reminds me of all the previous things that happen on here from time to time....

[SignOfZeta]

I'd have to say my desire to play Marble Madness ON THE TURBO isn't very huge. I loved it on the Amiga 20 years ago but...its kind of...out there, on many systems, for cheap. I don't really need a Turbo version. I would not pay for a repro HuCard of it unless it was really cheap, like $20 or something.

I agree with a lot of what Cack is saying, btw. People trying to profit off this kind of thing should probably get a fucking job and stop sussing up art with their short sited capitalistic bullshit.

[BeaglePuss]

Firstly, I apologize for my derailment of the thread.  I was responding to my name being brought up, but I should have just gone through PM in hindsight.  It was honestly unintentional. 

As for profiting on a potential release, I don't believe I ever have in all of the games I've released.  I have made some money back on my initial investment, but ultimately always end up spending more money than anything else (usually a lot more).  When releasing a game isn't an option, I either release the rom for free or sell the game to another collector.  It all depends on situation. 

I will update the Marble Madness thread at some point today and tie up the remaining loose ends as best I can.

I also want to apologize to community as a whole.  This is a tighter-knit group than most, and I appreciate your collective passion.  When you collect prototypes, you tend to always be on the defensive, which is exactly what happened here.  When I've spent so much time and money releasing games to the public, I tend to get a bit trigger-happy when being accused of hoarding.  It's an unfortunate character flaw.

[PCEngineHell]

It's an unfortunate character flaw.

Which one? Being trigger happy at throwing insults, or being a hoarder? I'd consider both equally bad, but I mean, you know what you're doing when you go in spending a ton of money on prototypes, and the hassle and flack that might be involved when you keep said unreleased title for yourself. You cant just jump in some close knit community, say "hey look what I got, here is two screen shots" then blow everyone off for weeks on end, then come back and lay blame down on others as to the reasons behind your absence and think no ones going to smack you down. It's in poor form. You're the one with the prototype, any "sharing" of said game kinda falls on you since you decided to take up the responsibility for the titles safe keeping and preservation when you purchased it.

The best way to preserve said game is basically to share it. I know that sucks for your pocket book, but if the sole interest in buying these things is to preserve the work that was done, well, its not going to happen when it just goes for years untouched on a shelf. Dealing with arcade hardware for a decent amount of time, one of the first things that pops into mind is the fact that over time eproms will lose their data. These 20 year old prototypes relying on eproms and all, well, you already know where I am headed with this.

Also, I'd like to mention, and I really don't know if its still the same way now, but it seems like I remember in the arcade community people being more interested in sharing unreleased titles romsets with the entire community instead of simply hoarding them, to make sure a wider audience is available to preserve them. The mentality and goals seemed to differ greatly from the going on's of the prototype business for game consoles, since on the console side typically the potential releaser is only interested in getting their money back first, or in some cases, doesn't care and has no intention of sharing at all what so ever.

[VestCunt]

Firstly, I apologize for my derailment of the thread.  I was responding to my name being brought up, but I should have just gone through PM in hindsight.  It was honestly unintentional.  

As for profiting on a potential release, I don't believe I ever have in all of the games I've released.  I have made some money back on my initial investment, but ultimately always end up spending more money than anything else (usually a lot more).  When releasing a game isn't an option, I either release the rom for free or sell the game to another collector.  It all depends on situation.  

I will update the Marble Madness thread at some point today and tie up the remaining loose ends as best I can.

I also want to apologize to community as a whole.  This is a tighter-knit group than most, and I appreciate your collective passion.  When you collect prototypes, you tend to always be on the defensive, which is exactly what happened here.  When I've spent so much time and money releasing games to the public, I tend to get a bit trigger-happy when being accused of hoarding.  It's an unfortunate character flaw.

No need to apologize. I understand you had to sacrifice a significant sum to pry MM away from the previous owner. I look forward to your update and I'm sure plenty of people would be thrilled to pitch in if given the opportunity.

[BeaglePuss]

It's an unfortunate character flaw.

Which one? Being trigger happy at throwing insults, or being a hoarder? I'd consider both equally bad, but I mean, you know what you're doing when you go in spending a ton of money on prototypes, and the hassle and flack that might be involved when you keep said unreleased title for yourself. You cant just jump in some close knit community, say "hey look what I got, here is two screen shots" then blow everyone off for weeks on end, then come back and lay blame down on others as to the reasons behind your absence and think no ones going to smack you down. It's in poor form. You're the one with the prototype, any "sharing" of said game kinda falls on you since you decided to take up the responsibility for the titles safe keeping and preservation when you purchased it.

The best way to preserve said game is basically to share it. I know that sucks for your pocket book, but if the sole interest in buying these things is to preserve the work that was done, well, its not going to happen when it just goes for years untouched on a shelf. Dealing with arcade hardware for a decent amount of time, one of the first things that pops into mind is the fact that over time eproms will lose their data. These 20 year old prototypes relying on eproms and all, well, you already know where I am headed with this.

Also, I'd like to mention, and I really don't know if its still the same way now, but it seems like I remember in the arcade community people being more interested in sharing unreleased titles romsets with the entire community instead of simply hoarding them, to make sure a wider audience is available to preserve them. The mentality and goals seemed to differ greatly from the going on's of the prototype business for game consoles, since on the console side typically the potential releaser is only interested in getting their money back first, or in some cases, doesn't care and has no intention of sharing at all what so ever.

Awesome.

[lord_cack]

I think once you start talking about thousands of dollars, your never gonna get your investment back. That just seems like a massive amount of money to spend, especially on something that, while could be shared, is just going to mold away on a single shelf (or sold to a new shelf). Life is made to enjoy, thats why comments about owning games but not opening them, just blows my mind. I don't think that way....

[BeaglePuss]

I think once you start talking about thousands of dollars, your never gonna get your investment back.

I may not get my entire investment back, but you'd be surprised how easy it is to off-set the initial purchase a great deal through a release.  Like I mentioned before, I've done it numerous times in the past with both NES and Genesis titles.  Some of the games were not complete/good enough to warrant a release, and those are the titles I've released for free.  I purchased Swamp Thing and Dragon's Lair for the Genesis for $800 each, and released those to the Sega collecting community for free.  I spent $1,500 on the God-awful Arcadia VI for the NES and released that for free to the Nintendo collecting community.  I've released dozens of titles over the years, so the notion that anything would collect dust on my shelf is just inaccurate.

[Arkhan Asylum]

If I had some 10,000$ prototype:

1) I must be wiping my ass with 100$ bills
2) I'd rub it in everyone's face for like, a week
3) Then, I'd rip it/spread it like AIDS in 1985

[PCEngineHell]

I think once you start talking about thousands of dollars, your never gonna get your investment back.

I may not get my entire investment back, but you'd be surprised how easy it is to off-set the initial purchase a great deal through a release.  Like I mentioned before, I've done it numerous times in the past with both NES and Genesis titles.  Some of the games were not complete/good enough to warrant a release, and those are the titles I've released for free.  I purchased Swamp Thing and Dragon's Lair for the Genesis for $800 each, and released those to the Sega collecting community for free.  I spent $1,500 on the God-awful Arcadia VI for the NES and released that for free to the Nintendo collecting community.  I've released dozens of titles over the years, so the notion that anything would collect dust on my shelf is just inaccurate.

I get where you are coming from on that, but to be fair, nothing you have done for the Genesis or Nes community really matters to anyone here who doesn't participate in those communities. Also, its one thing to offer up crap games for free that you know no one in their right mind would want to pay money to play, and another to offer up solid titles that are pretty much complete, and actually fun to play. So to that I'd say how you will be judged here by most is probably how you handle the Marble Madness thing, not prior deeds done elsewhere, if that even matters to you or not. And as I mentioned before, would you even legally have the right to release the Marble Madness TG port in a way that involves money?

[BeaglePuss]

If I had some 10,000$ prototype:

1) I must be wiping my ass with 100$ bills
2) I'd rub it in everyone's face for like, a week
3) Then, I'd rip it/spread it like AIDS in 1985

What if you had a $10,000 prototype that you paid $1,500 for?  What if you were also wiping your ass with $1 dollar bills, and you had to flip each over and use both sides?  What if this obnoxiously over-priced prototype was glitchy, incomplete, and less fun than a trip to the dentist?  What if some malevolent collector came out from the shadows and offered you an awe-inspiring sum of cash for this game as long as it's not shared/distributed?

[BeaglePuss]

So to that I'd say how you will be judged here by most is probably how you handle the Marble Madness thing, not prior deeds done elsewhere, if that even matters to you or not.

I can assure you, it doesn't.

And as I mentioned before, would you even legally have the right to release the Marble Madness TG port in a way that involves money?

No, I don't have the legal rights to distribute the game for money.  With that said, I also don't have the legal rights to distribute it for free.  Beyond not legally owning the intellectual property, most of these prototypes are "loaners" meaning I don't even own the physical game from a legal standpoint.  It's not something I'd lose sleep over though.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

What if you had a $10,000 prototype that you paid $1,500 for?  What if you were also wiping your ass with $1 dollar bills, and you had to flip each over and use both sides?  What if this obnoxiously over-priced prototype was glitchy, incomplete, and less fun than a trip to the dentist?  What if some malevolent collector came out from the shadows and offered you an awe-inspiring sum of cash for this game as long as it's not shared/distributed? 

I'd keep my mouth shut instead of teasing people with a few screen shots and empty hope, seemingly with the sole mission of attracting a buyer.  But that's just me.

[BeaglePuss]

I'd keep my mouth shut instead of teasing people with a few screen shots and empty hope, seemingly with the sole mission of attracting a buyer.  But that's just me.

Buyers for such things come from Forums like Assembler and such, not a place like this.  This is a gamer community first, and a collector community (a distant) second.  This doesn't seem like the type of place that would be too fond of prototype hoarders from what I've gathered thus far.

[Arkhan Asylum]

What if you had a $10,000 prototype that you paid $1,500 for? 

Same thing.

What if you were also wiping your ass with $1 dollar bills, and you had to flip each over and use both sides?

I think you missed the point of that remark.  You wipe your ass with 100$ bills because you don't give no fucks.  If you're using 1$ bills and have to use both sides, you're probably poor and shouldn't be buying 1500$ prototypes.

What if this obnoxiously over-priced prototype was glitchy, incomplete, and less fun than a trip to the dentist?  What if some malevolent collector came out from the shadows and offered you an awe-inspiring sum of cash for this game as long as it's not shared/distributed? 

If it was glitchy, incomplete, and less fun than the dentist, I'd hand that shit out.  Maybe someone can fix it.

If some toolbag offered me a ton of money, I'd take the money, release it anyways, and tell him to pound sand.

[BeaglePuss]

If some toolbag offered me a ton of money, I'd take the money, release it anyways, and tell him to pound sand.

Hmmm... I like you're style.

For the sake of clarity, I don't actually use any denomination of paper money to wipe my butthole.  I use toilet paper, but it's only single ply.  Make what you will of that.

[PCEngineHell]

So to that I'd say how you will be judged here by most is probably how you handle the Marble Madness thing, not prior deeds done elsewhere, if that even matters to you or not.

I can assure you, it doesn't.

This doesn't seem like the type of place that would be too fond of prototype hoarders from what I've gathered thus far.

So what exactly are you doing here then? It sounds more or less like you did come here to try to drum up business, only to realize no one here is interested in tossing thousands your way, or to simply brag and stir up shit. Considering all you have is Marble Madness, to be blunt, you don't really have much leverage here.

[BeaglePuss]

So to that I'd say how you will be judged here by most is probably how you handle the Marble Madness thing, not prior deeds done elsewhere, if that even matters to you or not.

I can assure you, it doesn't.

This doesn't seem like the type of place that would be too fond of prototype hoarders from what I've gathered thus far.

So what exactly are you doing here then? It sounds more or less like you did come here to try to drum up business, only to realize no one here is interested in tossing thousands your way, or to simply brag and stir up shit. Considering all you have is Marble Madness, to be blunt, you don't really have much leverage here.

Read through the MM thread again.  I didn't start fielding offers in that thread, and I certainly didn't "stir shit up."  I didn't so much as mention any intentions of selling the game at all in fact. 

I shared some pictures of a game I unearthed that I thought people would be interested in seeing.  That's pretty much the long and short of it.  I don't really think I need(ed) "leverage," whatever that's supposed to mean.

[PCEngineHell]

Per as I said above, so what exactly are you doing here? And yes, coming here to blame toss and throw insults is stirring shit up. 

[BeaglePuss]

Per as I said above, so what exactly are you doing here? And yes, coming here to blame toss and throw insults is stirring shit up. 

If you find anything I've said to be "insulting" you're either reading impaired or need to grow thicker skin.

As for why I'm here, the same reason as you I would imagine.  I mean, I joined the site in 2007 well before I ever purchased Marble Madness.  I didn't join 5 some-odd years ago hoping to bust your balls.

[SignOfZeta]

Yeah, I do kind of wonder about this...what is the point of showing pictures of a thing you have if you aren't looking for buyers and a ROM releases isn't imminent? It's like you just want to see people whine...because that's all your going to get. What else can happen?

I suppose there will be a few dick riders who say, "Gee sir, you sure are awesome for having lots of money!" but those sorts of toadies are pretty rare, thankfully.

[PCEngineHell]

Per as I said above, so what exactly are you doing here? And yes, coming here to blame toss and throw insults is stirring shit up.  

If you find anything I've said to be "insulting" you're either reading impaired or need to grow thicker skin.

As for why I'm here, the same reason as you I would imagine.  I mean, I joined the site in 2007 well before I ever purchased Marble Madness.  I didn't join 5 some-odd years ago hoping to bust your balls.

You coming here and insinuating you've contributed more in general then actual members of this community who ACTIVELY post here, let alone work on home brew releases, is indeed insulting, as is your general attitude concerning the entire matter.  And no, joining 5 years ago and managing barely 30 post in said 5 years, your reason for being here is easily a far fucking cry from my own. So again, I ask, what exactly are you doing here?

[BeaglePuss]

I suppose there will be a few dick riders who say, "Gee sir, you sure are awesome for having lots of money!" but those sorts of toadies are pretty rare, thankfully.

Thank God for them.  Without those dick-riders, this whole situation could have really gotten sour.

[PCEngineHell]

Per stated prior, what are you doing here, Mr. 30 post count in 5 years?

[BeaglePuss]

You coming here and insinuating you've contributed more in general then actual members of this community who post here, let alone work on home brew releases, is indeed insulting.

More in general?  Absolutely not.  In terms of preserving and distributing video game prototypes across multiple platforms... It would seem a sound argument.

So again, I ask, what exactly are you doing here?

It seems nothing.  I suppose I will be on my way. 

Another victory for the forums?

[Sadler]

Jesus guys, is this really necessary? Personally I like seeing pics of Marble Madness and anything else that wasn't released. It's interesting trivia and wasn't ever confirmed to exist (to the best of my knowledge) prior to BeaglePuss's pictures. Would I like to see a ROM dump? Hell yeah, but I'll take what I can get. If that makes me a dick rider, so be it.

[BeaglePuss]

Per stated prior, what are you doing here, Mr. 30 post count in 5 years?

It's one thing to be insulting, but let's not get viscous.

Are you eight?

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Perhaps it makes me a toady, but I'm a fan of people bragging about what rare items they have, but only if they share screen shots, videos, tunes, etc.  Obviously I'd rather they shared the whole enchilada (either via download or as a booty), but I'd rather have that little bit of info. than nothing.

I honestly don't see what the big deal here is.

[PCEngineHell]

You coming here and insinuating you've contributed more in general then actual members of this community who post here, let alone work on home brew releases, is indeed insulting.

More in general?  Absolutely not.  In terms of preserving and distributing video game prototypes across multiple platforms... It would seem a sound argument.

So again, I ask, what exactly are you doing here?

It seems nothing.  I suppose I will be on my way. 

Another victory for the forums?

C U in another 5 years then when you come across another mythical object of wanton desire or something. Will be looking forward to it brah.

[BeaglePuss]

Perhaps it makes me a toady, but I'm a fan of people bragging about what rare items they have, but only if they share screen shots, videos, tunes, etc.  Obviously I'd rather they shared the whole enchilada (either via download or as a booty), but I'd rather have that little bit of info. than nothing.

I honestly don't see what the big deal here is.

I brought it upon myself for having the gall to respond in the first place. 

I have no ill-will towards the forum honestly, but I've obviously worn out my short welcome.  No harm, no foul.

[PCEngineHell]

I honestly don't see what the big deal here is.

Its not a big deal until you start downplaying others contributions compared to your own, and start boasting of deeds no one gives a flying fuck about because they had ZERO impact on this forum. I guess its the difference between being humble about the whole thing, and acting like you're the community rock star when 90 percent of the people posting have no idea who the fuck you even are and could care less, or even know what you're actual purpose of being here is.

[Bardoly]

Firstly, I apologize for my derailment of the thread.  I was responding to my name being brought up, but I should have just gone through PM in hindsight.  It was honestly unintentional. 

As for profiting on a potential release, I don't believe I ever have in all of the games I've released.  I have made some money back on my initial investment, but ultimately always end up spending more money than anything else (usually a lot more).  When releasing a game isn't an option, I either release the rom for free or sell the game to another collector.  It all depends on situation. 

I will update the Marble Madness thread at some point today and tie up the remaining loose ends as best I can.

I also want to apologize to community as a whole.  This is a tighter-knit group than most, and I appreciate your collective passion.  When you collect prototypes, you tend to always be on the defensive, which is exactly what happened here.  When I've spent so much time and money releasing games to the public, I tend to get a bit trigger-happy when being accused of hoarding.  It's an unfortunate character flaw.

No need to apologize. I understand you had to sacrifice a significant sum to pry MM away from the previous owner. I look forward to your update and I'm sure plenty of people would be thrilled to pitch in if given the opportunity.

I don't know about the guys jumping on you, but I agree more with vestcunt here, in that I think (and hope) that there are many people here who would be happy to help offset the cost involved in acquiring a prototype like Marble Madness or Dino Force if said prototype could possibly be reproduced or at least released as a rom or something.

If I understand you correctly, then you go into these prototype deals with eyes wide open, expecting to 'collect' a unique piece of gaming history/memorabilia without there being a monetary return necessarily, but if the prototype turns out to be viably playable, then you hope to be able to recoup a portion of your expenditure.  For example, if you spent $1500 on a prototype that turned out to be decently playable, then you might hope to work out a limited initial release of repro copies of some sort and try to make back $500-1000 of your initial expenditure before releasing the rom to the general public.  After which, at some point in the future, you could then possibly sell off the prototype if you wished and possibly break even.  It seems that such a setup would help get more funding than someone simply dumping the rom and then holding out a hat for donations.   

I do hope that any critics of such would be willing to put up some funding to assist in acquiring such items for the community as a whole.  I know that I would be willing to do so.   

[PCEngineHell]

Legally, as he admitted, he doesn't have a right to make any money back by releasing it, so I have no intention of paying him to do so, especially for a title already released on countless platforms as is. I'd possibly consider it for something like Dino Force though, if the game was a finished product and no one holds rights to it any longer however.

[VestCunt]

I don't know about you guys, but I haven't seen a lot of change in the Turbografx library over the last twenty years. I contributed to MSR and I have no qualms forking over money at the drop of the hat to Frozen Utopia, Aetherbyte, Mindrec, Bonknuts, CCovell, NecroPhile (for repros), BeaglePuss, and anyone else interested in releasing a new TurboGrafx game.

When it comes to prototypes, all I know is this:
1) I'll never be willing to pay the asking price
2) the people that do buy them are generally assholes who lock them away.

Beagle's the only prototype owner to ever seek out the forum and not be a dick. He's been open to the possibility of sharing it since day one. I never got the impression that he was waving it over our heads when he disappeared; he's just not a active member here. Did he run to us with open arms and give the game away for free? No, he's not a saint like BlueBMW. Unfortunately, people like Blue and Sparky haven't bought any prototypes.

I can understand some of the charges leveled against Beagle: he doesn't own the copyright, it was frustrating waiting three months for an update, and, while he has a history of being generous with prototypes, he doesn't have a history around here. Those are valid reasons not to support a MM release, especially the copyright.

Personally, I would feel fine about supporting a MM release from Beagle simply because he's not a gouger. If he had a habit of profiting on prototypes, I wouldn't be defending him. I see it as a "finder's fee" for keeping MM from the clutches of Adol or Thibut or that guy who owns PC Cocoron. We get a new game, MM is saved from dying on a shelf, and Beagel sees a small return on the obscene amount needed to compete with the assholes who hoard these things. If we ever want to see any prototype action around here, we can either: a) wait until hell freezes over for someone to give them away for free, b) start a PCEFX Buyers Co-op to compete with the assholes, or c) let someone like Beagle do the dirty work and reimburse him for some of it.

[Sadler]

What the fuck guys. Of all the battles to fight, this is what riles you up? Unreleased games that you knew nothing about? That's what pisses you off? You aren't any worse off for not having it in your hands and you are better off for learning about it. At least, you would be if you actually gave a shit about the system. What's next? Jumping on bt for not releasing an ISO of the huvideo sampler?

[PCEngineHell]

What the fuck guys. Of all the battles to fight, this is what riles you up? Unreleased games that you knew nothing about? That's what pisses you off? You aren't any worse off for not having it in your hands and you are better off for learning about it. At least, you would be if you actually gave a shit about the system. What's next? Jumping on bt for not releasing an ISO of the huvideo sampler?

The game itself, and his not willing to release it, has little to do with it, at least from my perspective. And given he has no actual legal right to release it anyway for money of any amount, I'd rather he did not do so at all if money is going to be a issue of any kind. I know that sucks for him, and for people desperate for any new material on said system, but I mean in his case, that's a fine line you choose to walk when investing in a high dollar item that's rights are still owned by a major company. At that point you are either taking on the role of being someone who plans to make sure the program is preserved for future generations, by freely putting it out there for as many people as possible to save, preserve, use and enjoy, at your own legal risk, or assuming a role similar to a fine art collector, storing it away to brag about to house guest now and then over a glass of wine.

The fact the he basically said that companies or individuals legal rights don't really even concern him when he releases this stuff kind of struck a cord with me too, and given that I actually have no idea at all how much he makes from said hard copy releases, the actual profit margins remain questionable. It reminds me of a certain Space Fantasy Zone/Mega Man Pc Engine release seller profiting off of another's work illegally, doing it simply because he knows he can get away with it.

Regardless of all that, it was the downplaying/disparaging egotistical remarks he made, downplaying others legit activity/contributions when he himself has done nothing for this community at all, other then post a couple of pics of Marble Madness, that put him on the spot mainly in my eyes. At the moment, I'd just be hard pressed to muster any kind of support for the guy, moral, financial, or otherwise.

[Trenton_net]

Am I the only one who just shrugs and goes "Whatever. I got lots of other games to deal with. Like 600+ titles!"?

[PCEngineHell]

Am I the only one who just shrugs and goes "Whatever. I got lots of other games to deal with. Like 600+ titles!"?

Basically why I said he has no real leverage and asked him why he was really here. Already tons of games on the system, all just as good or way better then Marble Madness as is. I can see people getting somewhat excited, irked, or even depressed over the possible release or unrelease of Dino Force. It would be a new game, looks interesting, is possibly bad ass. Marble Madness is old news though. Been there, done that. By no means is Marble Madness a bad game or nuthin, but its def not something to get overly excited about or roll out the red carpet for.

[Sadler]

Well, I guess to be fair a lot of this has to do with nostalgia. I'm still blown away that I can play Double Dragon 2 and Ninja Gaiden on the PCE. I didn't realize that back in the day and even if I did, there was no realistic way I'd get my hands on those games. I did play them on NES though. Marble Madness is similar, but goes back even farther. I remember my buddy getting this for computer back when the NES wasn't much to talk about (hell, may have been before the NES was released, this was a long time ago). It holds a special place in my mind. Even with that though, if I found out a US release of Pong was planned and protos exist for it, I'd lap that shit up. Yeah, Dino Force looks to be more intriguing, but either way Marble Madness is a game I didn't know actually existed and I find that fascinating.

[OldRover]

Outside of Sadler offering to let me borrow a multi-tap, there hasn't been a single member of this community offering up anything outside of "Gimme TEH ROMZ!"  You get more bees with honey, and more roms with tact.

In all fairness, you're not exactly around a lot. This is easily one of the most generous communities in the retro gaming world.

We could certainly do without all the damn cheap shots in this thread though, guys... so not cool.

[ParanoiaDragon]

Wowzers!


Um, anyways, I deffinitely want to see Marble Madness & any other games that never got released, to be released in a physical format.  I love Marble Madness, even though I kinda suck at it.

Maybe I'm nuts, but I'd lap that up if it were Pit Fighter or anyother crummy game that we ended up not getting, but MM ain't a crummy game, & there being a Turbo version is exciting to me.

[PCEngineHell]

Pit Fighter would be interesting to see simply because the only other good home port of it on 16-bit systems was the Genesis one, but only if it would be just as good, or better. If it ended up being crap like THQ Snes port, then forget it, no point.

[lord_cack]

Am I the only one who just shrugs and goes "Whatever. I got lots of other games to deal with. Like 600+ titles!"?

Apparently so 

The things like saying he has a "$10,000" prototype then turning and saying, well what if I only paid "$1,500" for it.

I mean I have seen people come and go in this community, some of them who ACTUALLY contributed to, real losses over my time here. We are a tough community and if you have been hanging around this community at all over the past near decade, you would know that. You would know what most people in this particular community expect. This shall be the last comment I intend to make, because I think it has honestly gone far enough, the points on both sides have been made and its a mute point he will do what he wants, the community will believe what they choose and we will go on as we always do....

[Tatsujin]

teh word.

[Gogan]

Release a physical copy. Give some money to Beagle, everybody wins.

[JoshTurboTrollX]

Pit Fighter would be interesting to see simply because the only other good home port of it on 16-bit systems was the Genesis one, but only if it would be just as good, or better. If it ended up being crap like THQ Snes port, then forget it, no point.

I couldn't imagine anyone doing a worse port than THQ did with the SNES port.  I remember how Excited I was to see it finally come out for the SNES after having played and watched it so much in the arcades.  It was such a turd.  ugh.

If I remember correctly, didn't the gameboy or gamegear handhelds get versions released that were actually more playable than the SNES one?

[Frank_fjs]

So getting back on topic, Akiba Games is handling the Dino Force sale.

"We will take all offer over 500,000 Yens ONLY, from 1 November to 12 November."

http://moemoe-japan.oxatis.com/PBCPPlayer.asp?ADContext=1&ID=1250110