Where's Neutopia?

[CrackTiger]

It seems to me that Neutopia should've been one of the first games released for the Virtual Console.

Anyone think that either Nintendo doesn't want it on VC or that Hudson is choosing not to release it just to stay on Nintendo's good side?

Other than Nintendo not being cool with the whole Zelda rip off factor, they might also not want Neutopia stealing any of the NES & SNES's Zelda games' thunder.

[Keranu]

I think they just haven't gotten around to adding it yet. They just released Dungeon Explorer, so maybe they're going to wait awhile until releasing another adventure game.

[Joe Redifer]

I hear that Neutopia is a complete and shameless rip-off of Sega's beloved Golden Axe Warrior, which in turn is an evil rip-off of Golvellius, also for the Master System.

[SignOfZeta]

Other than Nintendo not being cool with the whole Zelda rip off factor, they might also not want Neutopia stealing any of the NES & SNES's Zelda games' thunder.

I find that...extraordinarily unlikely.

[Odonadon]

I hear that Neutopia is a complete and shameless rip-off of Sega's beloved Golden Axe Warrior, which in turn is an evil rip-off of Golvellius, also for the Master System.

Where did you hear that?  No, it's a Zelda rip-off through and through.

OD

[Joe Redifer]

Zelda is a rip off of Golvellius, Golden Axe Warrior and Neutopia!

[KungFuKid]

I hear that Neutopia is a complete and shameless rip-off of Sega's beloved Golden Axe Warrior, which in turn is an evil rip-off of Golvellius, also for the Master System.

Where did you hear that?  No, it's a Zelda rip-off through and through.

OD

Both points are of course true, but I always find arguments like this kind of pointless, by the same logic you could say that about 50 shooters for the PCE are all rip-offs of each other or every platform game is a rip-off of another... They're all RPG games following an RPG format, the same as Alex Kidd & Mario having similar formats, or SF2 & Fatal Fury & Mortal Kombat, or Mario Kart and Sonic Drift etc. etc. I wouldn't say they were all rip-offs, just different games following the same format - some of the games will undoubtedly be better than others within that, and generally as time goes on some formats can be improved upon! For example, Golden Axe Warrior is a thousand times better than Golvellius! I for one am glad nobody has the copyright on a particular format because we'd never have gotten a number of classic and excellent games otherwise!

[CrackTiger]

Although most games are based on others, even the more blatant rip offs aren't usually as close as Neutopia is to the original Legend of Zelda. Golden Axe Warrior comes close and Golvelius is way different as far as rip offs go.

Other than Nintendo not being cool with the whole Zelda rip off factor, they might also not want Neutopia stealing any of the NES & SNES's Zelda games' thunder.

I find that...extraordinarily unlikely.

Why, because Neutopia doesn't even compare?

I'm not saying that Neutopia is way better than any Zelda(however it is my 2nd favorite Zelda game after the original), but if someone unfamilar with the early Zelda games were to try out NES Zelda for 500 points and Neutopia for 600 points, they'd probably feel like they got ripped off buying Zelda since they're the same game except that Neutopia looks nicer.

[Seldane]

I don't think they'll make Neutopia available. I don't think Hudson wants to dig up that blatant Zelda rip-off now that they're best pals with Nintendo.

[Keranu]

I don't think they'll make Neutopia available. I don't think Hudson wants to dig up that blatant Zelda rip-off now that they're best pals with Nintendo.

Haven't they always sorta been best pals with Nintendo though?

[Seldane]

I don't know, but I get the impression that they weren't, considering they were competing with the SNES/PCE back then (I'm aware that they made some games for Nintendo though).

[Joe Redifer]

All Hudson does is rip people off.  Neutopia is to Zelda what the original Adventure Island is to the original Wonder Boy.  I'm going to be ignorant and assume those are the only two games Hudson ever made to support my argument in the literal sense.

[Keranu]

I don't know, but I get the impression that they weren't, considering they were competing with the SNES/PCE back then (I'm aware that they made some games for Nintendo though).

I assume they have always been pals after reading some stuff that Steven Griener guy of Hudson was saying, like how Hudson was Nintendo's first third-party developer and they have had a close relationship since then. Even when the PCE was out and competiting with the other guys, Hudson was still kind enough to make quite a few games for the SNES and Genesis.

All Hudson does is rip people off.  Neutopia is to Zelda what the original Adventure Island is to the original Wonder Boy.  I'm going to be ignorant and assume those are the only two games Hudson ever made to support my argument in the literal sense.

One word:

Bomberman

[CrackTiger]

I don't know, but I get the impression that they weren't, considering they were competing with the SNES/PCE back then (I'm aware that they made some games for Nintendo though).

I assume they have always been pals after reading some stuff that Steven Griener guy of Hudson was saying, like how Hudson was Nintendo's first third-party developer and they have had a close relationship since then. Even when the PCE was out and competiting with the other guys, Hudson was still kind enough to make quite a few games for the SNES and Genesis.

All Hudson does is rip people off.  Neutopia is to Zelda what the original Adventure Island is to the original Wonder Boy.  I'm going to be ignorant and assume those are the only two games Hudson ever made to support my argument in the literal sense.

One word:

Bomberman

Six words:

Panic Bomber, Bomberman Kart, Bomberman Wars.

[esteban]

All Hudson does is rip people off.  Neutopia is to Zelda what the original Adventure Island is to the original Wonder Boy.  I'm going to be ignorant and assume those are the only two games Hudson ever made to support my argument in the literal sense.

Actually, on a few occasions it was worse than that: Hudson (in Japan) cloned games and then slapped licenses on them. I couldn't find Kaminari's post about this (it might have been a different forum), but he went into detail with a few games (i.e. with the bastardized Wonderboys and Dynastic Hero as a case study, IIRC?)

EDIT: I only found this brief comment from Kaminari, but there's a much better post out there. Somewhere.

[Joe Redifer]

One word:

Bomberman

Pfft.  That's hardly an original game.  Terrorists around the world have been playing real-life Bomberman for ages.  Leave it to Hudson to copy terrorists.

[CrackTiger]

All Hudson does is rip people off.  Neutopia is to Zelda what the original Adventure Island is to the original Wonder Boy.  I'm going to be ignorant and assume those are the only two games Hudson ever made to support my argument in the literal sense.

Actually, on a few occasions it was worse than that: Hudson (in Japan) cloned games and then slapped licenses on them. I couldn't find Kaminari's post about this (it might have been a different forum), but he went into detail with a few games (i.e. with the bastardized Wonderboys and Dynastic Hero as a case study, IIRC?)

EDIT: I only found this brief comment from Kaminari, but there's a much better post out there. Somewhere.

Well, they didn't really clone the Wonderboy games, they paid the developer to make them for Hudson just as they had done for Sega.

Just as Decap Attack isn't really a rip off 'Magical Turban Adventure' or whatever it's called(or Psycho Fox) and SMB2/USA isn't really a rip off of 'Magical Turban Adventure' or whatever it's called. 

[Keranu]

Six words:

Panic Bomber, Bomberman Kart, Bomberman Wars.

Hahaha, good point. Hey what's Bomberman Wars?

Pfft.  That's hardly an original game.  Terrorists around the world have been playing real-life Bomberman for ages.  Leave it to Hudson to copy terrorists.

Hmm, crap you got me there. I guess Hudson does like to rip people off.

[Joe Redifer]

Just as Decap Attack isn't really a rip off 'Magical Turban Adventure' or whatever it's called(or Psycho Fox)

It's OK when Sega does it, and therefore can't be considered a rip-off.

[KungFuKid]

Just as Decap Attack isn't really a rip off 'Magical Turban Adventure' or whatever it's called(or Psycho Fox)

It's OK when Sega does it, and therefore can't be considered a rip-off.

Glad we cleared that up! Haha!!!!

[Seldane]

Well, the same people developed Psycho Fox and Magical Hat Adventure (or whatever it is called), or so I've heard.

Oh, and Bomberman might be a rip off of some (really) old computer game I believe.*

*Extreme emphasis on that one, I'm not sure about this.

[Joe Redifer]

Well, the same people developed Psycho Fox and Magical Hat Adventure (or whatever it is called), or so I've heard.

Yes, Vic Tokai.  They are responsible for Kid Kool (NES), Psycho Fox (SMS), Magical Hat Flying Turbo Adventure (MD) and Decapattack (Genesis).  They really liked that formula, I guess.  Personally my favorite out of all of those (and I own them all) is Decapattack starring Chuck D. Head.

Vic Tokai is also responsible for Whip Rush on the MD/Genesis.

[CrackTiger]

Well, the same people developed Psycho Fox and Magical Hat Adventure (or whatever it is called), or so I've heard.

Oh, and Bomberman might be a rip off of some (really) old computer game I believe.*

*Extreme emphasis on that one, I'm not sure about this.

That's what I was meant, the same people who made the Wonderboy's made the Hudson games. They're not rip offs, unlike Neutopia. Unless some people who worked on Zelda also worked on Neutopia. It also depends on how much credit you want to give to Miyamoto over the guys who did the real work.

Do you know the name or maybe what type of computer that old Bomberman-like game was for? Rip off or not, I'd really like to see it. 

[guyjin]

Are you thinking of 'Eric and the Floaters' for the ZX Spectrum?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomberman_(1983_game)

Developed by hudson soft.

[Joe Redifer]

That's what I was meant, the same people who made the Wonderboy's made the Hudson games.

So, Wonder Boy 3 on the SMS had at least one dude who worked on the Dragon's Curse?  Same goes for Wonder Boy in Monser Word/Dynastic hero - Wonder Boy 3 MD/Monster Lair et al???

[CrackTiger]

More Hudson/Nintendo love-

http://www.insertcredit.com/archives/001540.html

[esteban]

All Hudson does is rip people off.  Neutopia is to Zelda what the original Adventure Island is to the original Wonder Boy.  I'm going to be ignorant and assume those are the only two games Hudson ever made to support my argument in the literal sense.

Actually, on a few occasions it was worse than that: Hudson (in Japan) cloned games and then slapped licenses on them. I couldn't find Kaminari's post about this (it might have been a different forum), but he went into detail with a few games (i.e. with the bastardized Wonderboys and Dynastic Hero as a case study, IIRC?)

EDIT: I only found this brief comment from Kaminari, but there's a much better post out there. Somewhere.

Well, they didn't really clone the Wonderboy games, they paid the developer to make them for Hudson just as they had done for Sega.

Just as Decap Attack isn't really a rip off 'Magical Turban Adventure' or whatever it's called(or Psycho Fox) and SMB2/USA isn't really a rip off of 'Magical Turban Adventure' or whatever it's called. 

I was playing along with Joe. You know how he is these days.

Anyway, it was my impression that nearly all of the AI sequels (let's throw JJ & Jeff in there as well, just for fun) were developed by Hudson themselves. So, even if the original NES AI was a joint production (for the sake of argument, let's say Hudson was merely the publisher)... all of the subsequent games still qualify as "clones" inspired by the original Wonderboy 1. Now, there might be some AI titles that deviate from the WB1 formula (i.e. an SNES game that GUTS actually likes... but I've never played it... Super Adventure Island 2, perhaps?).

Bottom line, I've played tons of AI games and I like them (including the Gameboy titles). It would be a sad, sad world if Hudson hadn't kept the spirit of WB1 alive all these years.   

I think Hudson did use licensing to sell games (in Japan), but unlike many other companies who use this tactic, Hudson usually had decent games underneath. Perhaps they weren't the most innovative games, but they were usually pretty good. Sure, some may snicker at Keith Courage (Wataru!), but if that was the lowest point, then Hudson has a good track record, IMO.

On a related note: I don't care what Seldane says, I'm grateful that Hudson made Ys IV and Faxanadu. They might not be considered official Falcom canon, but I think they are great.

[CrackTiger]

All Hudson does is rip people off.  Neutopia is to Zelda what the original Adventure Island is to the original Wonder Boy.  I'm going to be ignorant and assume those are the only two games Hudson ever made to support my argument in the literal sense.

Actually, on a few occasions it was worse than that: Hudson (in Japan) cloned games and then slapped licenses on them. I couldn't find Kaminari's post about this (it might have been a different forum), but he went into detail with a few games (i.e. with the bastardized Wonderboys and Dynastic Hero as a case study, IIRC?)

EDIT: I only found this brief comment from Kaminari, but there's a much better post out there. Somewhere.

Well, they didn't really clone the Wonderboy games, they paid the developer to make them for Hudson just as they had done for Sega.

Just as Decap Attack isn't really a rip off 'Magical Turban Adventure' or whatever it's called(or Psycho Fox) and SMB2/USA isn't really a rip off of 'Magical Turban Adventure' or whatever it's called. 

I was playing along with Joe. You know how he is these days.

Anyway, it was my impression that nearly all of the AI sequels (let's throw JJ & Jeff in there as well, just for fun) were developed by Hudson themselves. So, even if the original NES AI was a joint production (for the sake of argument, let's say Hudson was merely the publisher)... all of the subsequent games still qualify as "clones" inspired by the original Wonderboy 1. Now, there might be some AI titles that deviate from the WB1 formula (i.e. an SNES game that GUTS actually likes... but I've never played it... Super Adventure Island 2, perhaps?).

Bottom line, I've played tons of AI games and I like them (including the Gameboy titles). It would be a sad, sad world if Hudson hadn't kept the spirit of WB1 alive all these years.   

I think Hudson did use licensing to sell games (in Japan), but unlike many other companies who use this tactic, Hudson usually had decent games underneath. Perhaps they weren't the most innovative games, but they were usually pretty good. Sure, some may snicker at Keith Courage (Wataru!), but if that was the lowest point, then Hudson has a good track record, IMO.

On a related note: I don't care what Seldane says, I'm grateful that Hudson made Ys IV and Faxanadu. They might not be considered official Falcom canon, but I think they are great.

The Ys series ends at The Dwan Of Ys for me. Everything else are just offshoots.

Even if Hudson had programmed all of their Wonderboy'ish games themselves instead of Escape/Westone/whoever, they were still licensed and used the original source materials.

They wouldn't have gotten away with Neutopia if it had the same world map and dungeons as Zelda. There's a big difference between rip offs and ports.

The SNES AI's were similar in style to the original, but were totally rebalanced. The later NES AI's wound up closer to Super Mario World.

There's nothing wrong with licensed games, even when they use another games' formula, as long as they're good. Hudson still used few licenses during the PCE's lifetime compared to the number of games staring original Hudson characters.

[Keranu]

More Hudson/Nintendo love-

http://www.insertcredit.com/archives/001540.html

Haha, thanks for that link! That's very cool!

[GUTS]

Yeah Super Adventure Island 2 is extremely awesome, but it's very similar to the later Wonder Boy games where its a side-scrolling action RPG so it really doesn't deviate from the Wonder Boy mold.  Its not as good as Wonder Boy, but along with Demon's Crest its one of my favorite SNES games of all time since side-scrolling action RPGs are so rare.

[VestCunt]

I'm arriving a little late in the conversation, but you guys realize it's just a matter of time before FCI rolls in and sues Nintendo, Hudson, Sega, whoever made Golvelius, and Frozen Utopia for ripping off Hydlide, right?  Hydlide is, without a doubt, the unrecognized forefather of "zelda-clones" everywhere.  Don't even get me started on the Indiana Jones soundtrack....

[Seldane]

Hey, what did I say? I love Ys IV The Dawn of Ys and Faxanadu (although I would NEVER consider any of the happenings in these games as canonical)! Some of my favorite games ever!

Oh, and Super Adventure Island 2 rules too. It is actually better than the Wonder Boy games. Hudson could design levels, Westone could not (unless empty, straight rooms qualify as levels).

[CrackTiger]

I'm arriving a little late in the conversation, but you guys realize it's just a matter of time before FCI rolls in and sues Nintendo, Hudson, Sega, whoever made Golvelius, and Frozen Utopia for ripping off Hydlide, right?  Hydlide is, without a doubt, the unrecognized forefather of "zelda-clones" everywhere.  Don't even get me started on the Indiana Jones soundtrack....

I thought that Hydlide was supposed to be what Ys ripped of or vicey versey. I don't remember ramming through enemies in any of those other games.

FCI needs the money though, for when the adults who got ripped as children when they paid money for Hydlide NES decide to sue them. 

[guyjin]

indeed. hydlide was crap on a crap cracker.

if it's the grandfather of adventure games, he clearly had alzheimers.

but the great-grandfather of adventure games is, well, Adventure. "get this freaking duck away from me!"

[VestCunt]

Yeah, I guess Hydlide was more of an Ys-type game.

Being serious now, that game sure does suck.
Back in 1989, before the first 3 Funcoland store opened in Minnesota, I picked up Hydlide at a secondhand toy store.  I almost beat it back in the day because I had nothing else to play.

Hey, someone should make a side-scrolling shooter in the vein of Slyphia/LoT called Ys-Type!
...heheheh

Black Tiger, what's up with your signature?!?  Gross dude.

[Seldane]

Ys is not a rip-off of Hydlide. The "bump" system is one of the first RPG battle systems that was introduced in Rogue (in 1980 - the game that invented the Roguelike genre). Ys, Hydlide and pretty much every early Falcom game (Dragon Slayer [which came out BEFORE Hydlide - and I'm not talking about The Legend of Heroes here], Xanadu, Sorcerian, Legend of Xanadu, etc etc) borrowed this battle system from Rogue. The games themselves aren't very similiar, but the battle system definitely is. Although Ys evolved it and made it faster (rather than standing next to your enemy and pushing at it, you just touch it briefly and then quickly turn back).

[_Paul]

Hey, what did I say? I love Ys IV The Dawn of Ys and Faxanadu (although I would NEVER consider any of the happenings in these games as canonical)! Some of my favorite games ever!

Oh, and Super Adventure Island 2 rules too. It is actually better than the Wonder Boy games. Hudson could design levels, Westone could not (unless empty, straight rooms qualify as levels).

The Master System Wonderboy beats all other imitators hands down, including the arcade original.

[Seldane]

The Master System Wonderboy beats all other imitators hands down, including the arcade original.

Yeah I know. But I was referring to the adventure-based Wonder Boy games. The first game is definitely the best of the bunch.

[CrackTiger]

Ys is not a rip-off of Hydlide. The "bump" system is one of the first RPG battle systems that was introduced in Rogue (in 1980 - the game that invented the Roguelike genre). Ys, Hydlide and pretty much every early Falcom game (Dragon Slayer [which came out BEFORE Hydlide - and I'm not talking about The Legend of Heroes here], Xanadu, Sorcerian, Legend of Xanadu, etc etc) borrowed this battle system from Rogue. The games themselves aren't very similiar, but the battle system definitely is. Although Ys evolved it and made it faster (rather than standing next to your enemy and pushing at it, you just touch it briefly and then quickly turn back).

I know that Ys isn't the originator of ramming, I was just funning about how it wasn't the original Zelda game. 

Black Tiger, what's up with your signature?!?  Gross dude.

I guess you're not a Working Designs 'coinnasseur'. 

Hey, what did I say? I love Ys IV The Dawn of Ys and Faxanadu (although I would NEVER consider any of the happenings in these games as canonical)! Some of my favorite games ever!

Oh, and Super Adventure Island 2 rules too. It is actually better than the Wonder Boy games. Hudson could design levels, Westone could not (unless empty, straight rooms qualify as levels).

The Master System Wonderboy beats all other imitators hands down, including the arcade original.

I haven't really tried SAI2, but I didn't like the gameplay of the first one. Or at least, I didn't like the extreme changes from WB. Which is why I loved New AI when I first tried it.

The SMS Wonderboy is definitely my favorite of that style of game. I wouldn't rank/compare the WB to the MW's, since they're completely different types of games.

The one disappointing thing about the SMS/MkIII WB is the lack of FM sound support. I probably would've prefered the PSG music, but it's nice to have the choice of both in MkIII games.

[esteban]

The Ys series ends at The Dwan Of Ys for me. Everything else are just offshoots.

Even if Hudson had programmed all of their Wonderboy'ish games themselves instead of Escape/Westone/whoever, they were still licensed and used the original source materials.

They wouldn't have gotten away with Neutopia if it had the same world map and dungeons as Zelda. There's a big difference between rip offs and ports.

The SNES AI's were similar in style to the original, but were totally rebalanced. The later NES AI's wound up closer to Super Mario World.

There's nothing wrong with licensed games, even when they use another games' formula, as long as they're good. Hudson still used few licenses during the PCE's lifetime compared to the number of games staring original Hudson characters.

I understand what you're saying (and I don't disagree with you ); I guess I'm using "clone" in a different sense . Instead of thinking of "clone" in a legal manner, think of clone in a "creative" sense.

In the case of WB1 -> AI1 vs. Zelda -> Neutopia, I consider the latter as "clones", since the latter is clearly capitalizing on the successful, established formula of the former. In this sense, a company can clone a franchise they themselves started. I'm talking about the gameplay formula, level designs, etc.

Let me explain: If Nintendo jointly produced Super JJ & Jeff Bros. for TG-16, I'd still call it a SMB clone, even though Nintendo themselves were involved. Otherwise, they could have simply used Mario & Luigi and called it Turbo Mario Bros..

The modern equivalent to this, I suppose, would occur when several games use the same "engine".

So, I would argue that WB1, AI1 and JJ & Jeff all use the same game engine, but that sounds funny!

---------
I think we agree that licenses, in and of themselves aren't a problem as long as the core game is decent.

[esteban]

Hey, what did I say? I love Ys IV The Dawn of Ys and Faxanadu (although I would NEVER consider any of the happenings in these games as canonical)! Some of my favorite games ever!

Seldane, I was just teasing you because I remember a bunch of times when we were discussing what qualifies as "official" Falcom canon .

I was just being dramatic by invoking your name, AND
I must have forgotten to put a smiley face in my post.

[CrackTiger]

The Ys series ends at The Dwan Of Ys for me. Everything else are just offshoots.

Even if Hudson had programmed all of their Wonderboy'ish games themselves instead of Escape/Westone/whoever, they were still licensed and used the original source materials.

They wouldn't have gotten away with Neutopia if it had the same world map and dungeons as Zelda. There's a big difference between rip offs and ports.

The SNES AI's were similar in style to the original, but were totally rebalanced. The later NES AI's wound up closer to Super Mario World.

There's nothing wrong with licensed games, even when they use another games' formula, as long as they're good. Hudson still used few licenses during the PCE's lifetime compared to the number of games staring original Hudson characters.

I understand what you're saying (and I don't disagree with you ); I guess I'm using "clone" in a different sense . Instead of thinking of "clone" in a legal manner, think of clone in a "creative" sense.

In the case of WB1 -> AI1 vs. Zelda -> Neutopia, I consider the latter as "clones", since the latter is clearly capitalizing on the successful, established formula of the former. In this sense, a company can clone a franchise they themselves started. I'm talking about the gameplay formula, level designs, etc.

Let me explain: If Nintendo jointly produced Super JJ & Jeff Bros. for TG-16, I'd still call it a SMB clone, even though Nintendo themselves were involved. Otherwise, they could have simply used Mario & Luigi and called it Turbo Mario Bros..

The modern equivalent to this, I suppose, would occur when several games use the same "engine".

So, I would argue that WB1, AI1 and JJ & Jeff all use the same game engine, but that sounds funny!

---------
I think we agree that licenses, in and of themselves aren't a problem as long as the core game is decent.

Games using the same or similar engine or design is one thing. But what do you call ports that are the exact same game, with the same levels?

[esteban]

I call them ports . Is this a trick question? My brain is not working .

[CrackTiger]

I call them ports . Is this a trick question? My brain is not working .

That's what I was saying earlier. The Hudson Wonderboy games are ports(except 'New AI'). Neutopia is a clone.

[esteban]

I call them ports . Is this a trick question? My brain is not working .

That's what I was saying earlier. The Hudson Wonderboy games are ports(except 'New AI'). Neutopia is a clone.

Right . I was saying that AI1 (NES), New Adventure Island (TG-16) and JJ & Jeff were clones of WB1.

For the Hudson Wonderboy stuff, they often added a license (Bikkuri Man) to sell it (which goes back to my other point).

I think we agree with each other, but I may not have worded things as clearly as I should have .

[CrackTiger]

I call them ports . Is this a trick question? My brain is not working .

That's what I was saying earlier. The Hudson Wonderboy games are ports(except 'New AI'). Neutopia is a clone.

Right . I was saying that AI1 (NES), New Adventure Island (TG-16) and JJ & Jeff were clones of WB1.

For the Hudson Wonderboy stuff, they often added a license (Bikkuri Man) to sell it (which goes back to my other point).

I think we agree with each other, but I may not have worded things as clearly as I should have .

I haven't played through AI1, but doesn't have the same levels as the arcade(with some changes here and there)?

[Seldane]

Adventure Island NES is identical to Wonder Boy SMS.

[Odonadon]

Adventure Island NES is identical to Wonder Boy SMS.

Other than the Master Higgins sprite.

OD

[Seldane]

And the music.

But I meant the levels. They're the same.

[esteban]

I call them ports . Is this a trick question? My brain is not working .

That's what I was saying earlier. The Hudson Wonderboy games are ports(except 'New AI'). Neutopia is a clone.

Right . I was saying that AI1 (NES), New Adventure Island (TG-16) and JJ & Jeff were clones of WB1.

For the Hudson Wonderboy stuff, they often added a license (Bikkuri Man) to sell it (which goes back to my other point).

I think we agree with each other, but I may not have worded things as clearly as I should have .

I haven't played through AI1, but doesn't have the same levels as the arcade(with some changes here and there)?

I finally found this thread again! Purely by accident, I might add (I tried searching for "AI1" and it yielded no results).

Anyway, I totally understand your point about AI1 NES: it is an official port of the arcade with cosmetic changes. OK,  I agree that AI1 is not a clone. Would you agree that New AI (PCE) is a clone of WB1?