Ebay Caution: scam/repro seller "thewarriorsedgegaming"

[Psycho Nulltard]

Let me start by saying that this is not a personal attack. This seller may be completely oblivious to the fact that some of his wares are repro, but if you see an auction for a rare TG16 title from this seller you should be aware that there is a history of inauthentic items being sold from this seller.

I always like to give the benefit of a doubt, but in this case I once received an admission of "it is a repro" followed by -no- update of the ebay listing to indicate shit was fake. That is hard to excuse.

Please be aware that this is not directed at madboom, who has on occasion put forth effort to hook up deals for pcefx users with this seller outside of ebay. I just want to raise awareness of this situation so that nobody else ends up with repros passed off as authentic in their collection.

[PCEngineHell]

Do you have some links or photos to submit for some kind of evidence. I was browsing his auctions and didn't see anything.

[esteban]

Do you have some links or photos to submit for some kind of evidence. I was browsing his auctions and didn't see anything.

This has been a test of the Emergency Scammer Alert System

[madboom0522]

I am not sure at what point this seller ever listed his items as anything other than acceptable. Check his feedback and you will see many here have bought from him and been nothing but happy with their purchase. You should make sure that you have all the facts before you accuse someone of passing off (fakes) and being dishonest. He had clear pictures listed and did not try to hide anything. Not to mention the fact that he did not even sell this through e-bay. It was a private sale and the new seller had this and another game for almost two months before claiming that they were fake. Who would wait that long to raise such an issue? I suspect that you know who this buyer was and that is why you are raising this matter?  If I am going to buy something I would be sure to do my research and make sure I knew what I was getting. There were and are plenty of shadowgate games to compare to. I know this seller and he has done nothing but fair deals with people. If the person who wanted the game had a problem with it after he received numerous pics outside of e-bay before he bought then he should have said so.
   Does this mean that anytime someone sells a game with a case and label that did not come with one they should mention that in the sale? I am thinking that most do not.

[LostFlunky]

madboom said:
I am not sure at what point this seller ever listed his items as anything other than acceptable. Check his feedback and you will see many here have bought from him and been nothing but happy with their purchase. You should make sure that you have all the facts before you accuse someone of passing off (fakes) and being dishonest. He had clear pictures listed and did not try to hide anything. Not to mention the fact that he did not even sell this through e-bay. It was a private sale and the new seller had this and another game for almost two months before claiming that they were fake. Who would wait that long to raise such an issue? If I am going to buy something I would be sure to do my research and make sure I knew what I was getting. There were and are plenty of shadowgate games to compare to. I know this seller and he has done nothing but fair deals with people. If the person who wanted the game had a problem with it after he received numerous pics outside of e-bay before he bought then he should have said so.
   Does this mean that anytime someone sells a game with a case and label that did not come with one they should mention that in the sale? I am thinking that most do not.

[PCEngineHell]

I am simply overwhelmed by the lack of links or proof for, or against, said seller. Unless you guys plan to do either, take it to PM or something, or come back when you have evidence you plan to submit for, or against dingowarrioredgesumthingamingspectacular.

[PCEngineHell]

Sit tight, profprof. We aren't each others' biggest fans, but we should be on the same side of this one.

WTF are you even talking about. What does that even mean. When you go to expose someone for scams, you provide fucking proof on the first post, not the 15th one. Otherwise it reads off like cheap slander. I don't know this guy you are accusing. What I do know is that you are saying he is a scamming piece of shit. But you don't submit any evidence to support your case. No links. No pics. No nothing. I would be more then happy to support you in this matter once you convince me it is legit. Gather your evidence and come back and present it and make a good solid case.

[madboom0522]

The fuck are you talking about, boom? The MM3 he/you tried to sell me was on ebay with a fake map. I will post the PM thread when I get time if I need to, along with the ended auction link.

But thanks for stepping up and providing confirmation that this is NOT an isolated incident. I wanted to think that you were not involved in the deception, but now that I see your post and see the ebay auction for bootleg beyond shadowgate, my gut tells me I was a fool for believing you were not complicit in the scamming.

Is the seller a homie or do you get commission? Honest question.

I am not sure why you are thinking that I am involved in any type of scam. I have not nor will I ever do so. I always try try to provide the information to the best of my knowledge. He may have had repro stuff and I never said he did not. I also know that he did not ever say that anything he had was original or repro when listing on e-bay. I have sent some of my stuff in the past to sell for me and he has done so. All of his auctions say to ask questions and make sure that this is what you want to buy. On top of it he offers a 14 day money back guarantee on everything he sells. If he was out to deceive people why would he offer that?  So I guess because I know him I must be in on a scam and that he is defrauding people on e-bay? I have not sold a single thing that was fake to anyone period. There are many on here that could vouch for that. I also do not receive (kick backs) from this seller. He has never done me or anyone from here dirty to the best of my knowledge. I know him from past business deals outside of e-bay and I already questioned him on the matter. This is how I know that the game in question was not sold on e-bay.

[PCEngineHell]

Wait for it. I just learned that my attempted scam was not an isolated incident. You of all people should understand how single parenting can impact one's free time. I'm trying to get twin 5 year olds to sleep but didn't want to wait until I can get to my desktop to warn the community about a repro seller passing shit off as real.

There is evidence. Wait until after you see it to discount it.

It has nothing to do with being a single parent, or discounting or disbelieving your evidence. But you should not have even started this thread until you had your stuff gathered and ready to post. Remember, you have to make a good case. A good case is supported by evidence. You failed to do that, and no one should have to wait for it once you start a thread and toss out accusations. Its not fair to the community, nor the person you are accusing, which is in this case kinda sorta Madboom?, and some ebay guy.

They should be provided a chance to defend their-selves, but with no actual evidence provided to even defend against, it just ends up looking like slander, which we don't take kindly to around here. The accusations you are making are pretty serious. They can have a lasting affect on someones seller rep.

[esteban]

Sit tight, profprof. We aren't each others' biggest fans, but we should be on the same side of this one.

WTF are you even talking about. What does that even mean. When you go to expose someone for scams, you provide fucking proof on the first post, not the 15th one. Otherwise it reads off like cheap slander. I don't know this guy you are accusing. What I do know is that you are saying he is a scamming piece of shit. But you don't submit any evidence to support your case. No links. No pics. No nothing. I would be more then happy to support you in this matter once you convince me it is legit. Gather your evidence and come back and present it and make a good solid case.

It is better to alert folks—err on the side of caution.

We are a small forum, and if someone leveled a charge of "scammer" against someone prematurely, well, it could always be rectified (with apologies around).

For example, the recent episode with BigusSchmuck... I don't think his reputation was marred for more than a day or two (if that).

Even I have found it in my heart to give Bigus another chance.   

If I suspected that someone here was shady, I don't know if I would wait for inconclusive proof (assuming that such proof could ever be obtained).





The preceding assumed that Nulltard's intensions were sincere and that he isn't a total imbecile (that is, that he has the mental calcify to gather legitimate, conclusive proof).

However, even if Nulltard is simply slandering someone (which is a shame), it certainly  provides us with  some drama and entertainment.

So please allow us jaded, sadistic, apathetic, bored and conspiracy-obsessed rubber-neckers a chance to eat popcorn and watch the show.

[PCEngineHell]

Sit tight, profprof. We aren't each others' biggest fans, but we should be on the same side of this one.

WTF are you even talking about. What does that even mean. When you go to expose someone for scams, you provide fucking proof on the first post, not the 15th one. Otherwise it reads off like cheap slander. I don't know this guy you are accusing. What I do know is that you are saying he is a scamming piece of shit. But you don't submit any evidence to support your case. No links. No pics. No nothing. I would be more then happy to support you in this matter once you convince me it is legit. Gather your evidence and come back and present it and make a good solid case.

It is better to alert folks—err on the side of caution.

We are a small forum, and if someone leveled a charge of "scammer" against someone prematurely, well, it could always be rectified (with apologies around).

For example, the recent episode with BigusSchmuck... I don't think his reputation was marred for more than a day or two (if that).

Even I have found it in my heart to give Bigus another chance.   

If I suspected that someone here was shady, I don't know if I would wait for inconclusive proof (assuming that such proof could ever be obtained).





The preceding assumed that Nulltard's intensions were sincere and that he isn't a total imbecile (that is, that he has the mental calcify to gather legitimate, conclusive proof).

However, even if Nulltard is simply slandering someone (which is a shame), it certainly  provides us with  some drama and entertainment.

So please allow us jaded, sadistic, apathetic, bored and conspiracy-obsessed rubber-neckers a chance to eat popcorn and watch the show.

No.

[esteban]

P.S. I am starting trouble with you, Professor.

[PCEngineHell]

P.S. I am starting trouble with you, Professor.

No. And this thread does not entertain, not one bit.

[VenomMacbeth]

I am both entertained and informed. 

[PCEngineHell]

I don't sling shit lightly. Here... it isn't on a silver platter yet, but this auction was sold to someone else as authentic.

You shouldn't sling this kind of shit at all without proof attached. Do you need Nanto to log in and tell you this or something?

Again... I know you don't like me, but....

WTF is this? You are saying a lot of stupid shit this evening associating me with whatever personal feelings you seem to have for me. Stop with the psychological projection bullshit already. Whatever you are feeling, it is not mutual. I don't know you enough to dislike you, fuck, I dont even know anything about you other then you are some DoxPhile guy that is not a total fucktard like DK or James, but it seems like you are hell bent on making it happen this evening by going full retard.

but I've done a fuckload more for this community than some unkown ebay repro reseller... are you fucking kidding me? I'm slandering some innocent soul and "this community" doesn't take kindly to it?  Give me a break, shit...

Slander like accusing someone of fraud is a big deal. Provide solid proof when you make those accusations. If the guy was passing off boots as legit in a auction, post links to said auction. Get us pics. Get us a hell of a lot more then screen grabs of Madboom saying "oh hey its a boot and my seller pal confirms that, so be aware of that before you buy it so you know what you are getting".

AND NO! I WILL NOT ANSWER MY VOICEMAIL... if you have something to say and I don't answer, fucking text or email me. Shit....

I don't have your phone number. I dont even know who the fuck you are, personal info, etc. WTF are you even talking about. Why would I fucking call you, and how could I without said info?

[esteban]

This is some weird drama.

[CrackTiger]

When I glanced over the initial description, I thought that this was a recent auction that I had meant to post in the gouging or 'just bad' threads.

I just checked and it turns out it was another guy trying to pass off repro packaging as legit.

[bozo55]

This is some weird drama.

If only post #15 was his first post.  But I gotta admit, this was slightly entertaining, and by slightly, I mean very.

[Miracle_Warrior]

I will respond to this in more detail shortly, but this seller sold me fakes and refused to make it right with me.  MMIII and Beyond Shadowgate.  Claims he didn't know they contained repro posters and back inserts, but now I'm seeing he knew damn well they were fake. I want my money back, but I have no recourse because I purchased them away from eBay.  My fault, but he burned a bridge with me and I hope nobody ever buys from this guy.

[bozo55]

I will respond to this in more detail shortly, but this seller sold me fakes and refused to make it right with me.  MMIII and Beyond Shadowgate.  Claims he didn't know they contained repro posters and back inserts, but now I'm seeing he knew damn well they were fake. I want my money back, but I have no recourse because I purchased them away from eBay.  My fault, but he burned a bridge with me and I hope nobody ever buys from this guy.

Wow, that sucks.  What a douche. 

I don't know if it's appropriate to ask this, but could you post pics (for science)?

[PCEngineHell]

Like anyone could ID a repro from shitty low res ebay pics...

Tomorrow I will post an exposé on this. But for now my hands are tied getting kids to sleep (yes, single dad doesn't have time to quote shit and crop screens and yadda yadda...)

My original warning stands: ask this seller explicitly whether or not items are authentic.  He had no problem passing off known repro MM3 and BS as authentic. Don't be a victim.

Are they, the fakes, cd-r, pressed, or what? Come back tomorrow with some links and pics and more details. This thread could have waited until then. One evening would not have made a real difference. Come back and have your shit prepared and in order. You keep saying you are putting your kids and bed, and I am like, why is this guy even replying still. This shit can wait, do what you got to do at home and come back when you are ready to deal with it.

And honestly, I spot fakes out of low res pics on ebay all the time. Go back and check the gouging thread for the fake Ys and Splatterhouse auctions I posted about. It does take a careful eye though, and giving us a heads up is appreciated, but only when it is well presented.

Prof, did you see the screens? I have voicemails. This was an inside joke for people that know me. Put your paranoia aside for a second. This is not about you...

But by all means, keep standing up for repro sellers...

Jesus...

It's not about me, but here you are accusing me of standing up for repro sellers , which is ironic since I went after one of the biggest ones, and I have made my feelings well known about people passing off fakes as legit and making a big habit of it....That with making a joke about me calling you, and coming out with this shit about you harboring some kind of dislike for me. Its rather fucked up to be honest. You need to get a fucking grip. Whatever you have going on is clearly onesided.

Just a tip. If I don't like someone, I make sure they really know it. Whatever feelings you seem to have about me that you spoke of above that you have been harboring, it is not mutual. I don't like, nor dislike you. I simply have no personal experience with you, or any kind of history with you yet to base either kind of feelings on, so kind of at a loss there.

I don't know what your deal is with that whole pent up emotional thing you have going for me. But cool, I will make a mental note of it, that Nulltard has issues with me, info filed away for a later time. Thanks for being upfront with me on that totally meaningless info that had nothing to do with this scammer shit you brought to the table. If this was Esteban, MotherGunner, NecroPhile, Sparky, Zeta, etc, same deal would apply if they decided to go public with the accusations. Until you have a clear and well put together case ready to present, the stuff should have stayed in pms.

EDIT:
Miracle_Warrior, I am sorry to hear that. Can you post pics of the stuff, and do you still have messages saved from the seller? If you purchased them outside of paypal and did it as goods, instead of sending money as a gift, has the time expired to file a claim yet with them, or are you concerned you would not get a refund?

If he is a habitual seller on ebay, odds are he will always have funds coming and going, so Paypal can get your money back as long as you show proof you sent the items back, via tracking info. The links mentioned above that Nulltard mention that have expired, it is possible to check a web archive.

[Miracle_Warrior]

I will respond to this in more detail shortly, but this seller sold me fakes and refused to make it right with me.  MMIII and Beyond Shadowgate.  Claims he didn't know they contained repro posters and back inserts, but now I'm seeing he knew damn well they were fake. I want my money back, but I have no recourse because I purchased them away from eBay.  My fault, but he burned a bridge with me and I hope nobody ever buys from this guy.

Wow, that sucks.  What a douche. 

I don't know if it's appropriate to ask this, but could you post pics (for science)?

Absolutely, I will post pics.  Let me dig up the e-mails between me and thewarriorsedgegaming. 

I have the Beyond Shadowgate on Ebay right now.  Here it is:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/TurboGrafx-CD-Turbo-Duo-SCD-Beyond-Shadowgate-/271953198463?

[PCEngineHell]

My apologies to profprof, btw. I guess our inital encounter a few years back coupled with your present/recent past interactions with some of the DoxPhile crowd made me assume your criticism of my claim was based on a personal dislike of my persona.

Yes, I should have presented all evidence up front. Call it hubris, but I thought people would take my word, or at least pause for consideration, before entering into a transaction with thewarriorsedgegaming and possibly getting screwed

And yes, I could have edited my last post to include this post... but I really want to enter a raffle with min 5k post count. What's a guy to do?

I dont know what you are referring to, whatever event it was. If you were new when it happened, it is long forgotten, whatever it is. My issues with your DoxPhile crowd boils down to issues with two guys as far as I am aware. James and DickKabold. I dont judge people solely by the company they keep, nor do I care if people judge me by what their friends say about me behind the scenes or in forum drama. If I did that I would have been ragging on a few peeps here that were on good terms with Nintega, like Ninja Spirit. I don't have time for that kind of shit.

You and I have nothing going on with each other, and I don't give a flying fuck for the "he doesn't like me, so I dont like him" high school drama. If you don't like me, cool, what ever. Makes me no nevermind. This was not the time or place to make me aware of it though.

And again, you may have had good intentions, but one evening would not have made a difference. What would have really mattered was to come out swinging with a knock out case right from the get go so that the issue is clearly presented and easily understood so people can be 100 percent convinced. That is all that really counts in situations like this.

[bozo55]

I will respond to this in more detail shortly, but this seller sold me fakes and refused to make it right with me.  MMIII and Beyond Shadowgate.  Claims he didn't know they contained repro posters and back inserts, but now I'm seeing he knew damn well they were fake. I want my money back, but I have no recourse because I purchased them away from eBay.  My fault, but he burned a bridge with me and I hope nobody ever buys from this guy.

Wow, that sucks.  What a douche. 

I don't know if it's appropriate to ask this, but could you post pics (for science)?

Absolutely, I will post pics.  After some investigation, I know for sure that the Beyond Shadowgate once belonged to Roy Vegas.  Not sure if that means anything to this community, but there's some additional info for you.  Let me dig up the e-mails between me and thewarriorsedgegaming. 

I have the Beyond Shadowgate on Ebay right now.  Here it is:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/TurboGrafx-CD-Turbo-Duo-SCD-Beyond-Shadowgate-/271953198463?

Thanks.  I think we've reached a point where high dollar games like this should only be sold in person.  You're going to need a magnifying glass to spot that one as a fake.

[Miracle_Warrior]

The fuck are you talking about, boom? The MM3 he/you tried to sell me was on ebay with a fake map. I will post the PM thread when I get time if I need to, along with the ended auction link.

But thanks for stepping up and providing confirmation that this is NOT an isolated incident. I wanted to think that you were not involved in the deception, but now that I see your post and see the ebay auction for bootleg beyond shadowgate, my gut tells me I was a fool for believing you were not complicit in the scamming.

Is the seller a homie or do you get commission? Honest question.

I am not sure at what point this seller ever listed his items as anything other than acceptable. Check his feedback and you will see many here have bought from him and been nothing but happy with their purchase. You should make sure that you have all the facts before you accuse someone of passing off (fakes) and being dishonest. He had clear pictures listed and did not try to hide anything. Not to mention the fact that he did not even sell this through e-bay. It was a private sale and the new seller had this and another game for almost two months before claiming that they were fake. Who would wait that long to raise such an issue? I suspect that you know who this buyer was and that is why you are raising this matter?  If I am going to buy something I would be sure to do my research and make sure I knew what I was getting. There were and are plenty of shadowgate games to compare to. I know this seller and he has done nothing but fair deals with people. If the person who wanted the game had a problem with it after he received numerous pics outside of e-bay before he bought then he should have said so.
   Does this mean that anytime someone sells a game with a case and label that did not come with one they should mention that in the sale? I am thinking that most do not.

At no point did he ever say or suggest that anything was fake.  Yes, it wasn't until much later that I realized that the posters were fake.  I honestly didn't know how to tell a real from a fake poster at first.  I had never owned Beyond Shadowgate or MMIII before this, so how was I to know.  I wound up snagging a second copy of Beyond Shadowgate as part of a larger deal, and it had a legit poster, and that's when everything came to light for me.  Also, the back insert looks real until you actually take it out of the case, then it's so bloody obvious that it's fake.  I didn't question the back insert of Beyond Shadowgate until I realized the poster was fake.  Do you guys normally take your cases apart and inspect inserts?  I have never thought to do this in the past. 

Timing doesn't mean anything in this case.  Stick up for him all you want Boom, but be was dishonest by not being up front about what he was selling.  So, because I didn't realize it right away, it's my fault?  Shady business if you ask me.  I contacted him when I finally realized what had happened and his response to me was "You got a good deal anyway, so it's OK."  He also suggested that he doesn't know if I was the one who swapped out fake stuff for new ones just to put one over on him.  THAT was a big ******** mistake.  Right there he incriminated himself.  He should have come forward right then and just admitted that he knew they were fake instead of deflecting this back on me.  I was totally professional and courteous with him the entire way; even after the discovery.  I gave him the benefit of the doubt that maybe he just didn't know, like I was unaware. 

I got a decent deal if they were authentic (not a great deal by any stretch), but being that the posters are fake and the back insert of Beyond Shadowgate is fake, I got abused on the price.   

[bozo55]

...the back insert looks real until you actually take it out of the case, then it's so bloody obvious that it's fake...

Ah, I get it now.  The paper was likely not glossy and smooth on the back side.  It probably had ink bleed too.

And legitimacy should be implied or otherwise made explicit, I agree.  Anyone that says otherwise is full of shit.

[Miracle_Warrior]

...the back insert looks real until you actually take it out of the case, then it's so bloody obvious that it's fake...

Ah, I get it now.  The paper was likely not glossy and smooth on the back side.  It probably had ink bleed too.

Bingo.

[PCEngineHell]

The fuck are you talking about, boom? The MM3 he/you tried to sell me was on ebay with a fake map. I will post the PM thread when I get time if I need to, along with the ended auction link.

But thanks for stepping up and providing confirmation that this is NOT an isolated incident. I wanted to think that you were not involved in the deception, but now that I see your post and see the ebay auction for bootleg beyond shadowgate, my gut tells me I was a fool for believing you were not complicit in the scamming.

Is the seller a homie or do you get commission? Honest question.

I am not sure at what point this seller ever listed his items as anything other than acceptable. Check his feedback and you will see many here have bought from him and been nothing but happy with their purchase. You should make sure that you have all the facts before you accuse someone of passing off (fakes) and being dishonest. He had clear pictures listed and did not try to hide anything. Not to mention the fact that he did not even sell this through e-bay. It was a private sale and the new seller had this and another game for almost two months before claiming that they were fake. Who would wait that long to raise such an issue? I suspect that you know who this buyer was and that is why you are raising this matter?  If I am going to buy something I would be sure to do my research and make sure I knew what I was getting. There were and are plenty of shadowgate games to compare to. I know this seller and he has done nothing but fair deals with people. If the person who wanted the game had a problem with it after he received numerous pics outside of e-bay before he bought then he should have said so.
   Does this mean that anytime someone sells a game with a case and label that did not come with one they should mention that in the sale? I am thinking that most do not.

At no point did he ever say or suggest that anything was fake.  Yes, it wasn't until much later that I realized that the posters were fake.  I honestly didn't know how to tell a real from a fake poster at first, so how was I to know?  I had never owned Beyond Shadowgate or MMIII before this.  Also, the back insert looks real until you actually take it out of the case, then it's so bloody obvious that it's fake.  I didn't question the back insert of Beyond Shadowgate until I realized the poster was fake.  Do you guys normally take your cases apart and inspect inserts?  I have never thought to do this in the past. 

Timing doesn't mean anything in this case.  Stick up for him all you want Boom, but be was dishonest by not being up front about what he was selling.  So, because I didn't realize it right away, it's my fault?  Shady business if you ask me.  His response to me was "You got a good deal anyway, so it's OK."  I got a decent if they were authentic (not a great deal by any stretch), but being that the posters are fake and the back insert of Beyond Shadowgate is fake, I got abused on the price.   

Buying anything that is high dollar, in this day and age its always good to compare what you buy with others via pics or whatever. There are too many people out there now with the access to high quality printers. People can make fake inserts, posters, boxes, etc. Best to take anything you buy and examine it thoroughly when it arrives in your hands.

Still, this is not your fault. If any part of the total package was a reproduction, it was the sellers obligation to notify a potential buyer in advance of cash exchanging hands, in a auction or a private sale. If the guy lied or  passed them off as legit when he was aware they were fakes, then he is a scammer and that is all there is to it.

Looking at the pics of the game in your auction, it looks legit to me. I'd have to have seen it in person or seen some really high res scans or pics to use to compare and spot the stuff as fake myself, So I could see you you as being in a position of having to rely on the sellers honesty.

[bozo55]

Buying anything that is high dollar, in this day and age its always good to compare what you buy with others via pics or whatever. There are too many people out there now with the access to high quality printers. People can make fake inserts, posters, boxes, etc. Best to take anything you buy and examine it thoroughly.

Still, this is not your fault. If any part of the total package was a reproduction, it was the sellers obligation to notify a potential buyer in advance of cash exchanging hands, in a auction or a private sale. If the guy lied or passed them off as legit, then he is a scammer and that is all there is to it.

Looking at the pics of the game in your auction, it looks legit to me. I'd have to have seen it in person or seen some really high res scans or pics to use to compare and spot the stuff as fake myself, So I could see you you as being in a position of having to rely on the sellers honesty.

What's more is that reseller ignorance is not a good enough excuse.  If you are in the business of reselling games, any game that is $100+ should be verified before selling.  If you don't know how to verify it, you're in the wrong business.  To me, that implies there was intent to sell counterfeit goods. 

[BigusSchmuck]

...the back insert looks real until you actually take it out of the case, then it's so bloody obvious that it's fake...

Ah, I get it now.  The paper was likely not glossy and smooth on the back side.  It probably had ink bleed too.

Bingo.

If I had done that simple test, I would have never had posted that case and tray inserts on the bay. But at least I tried to make amends and gave the gentlemen his money back.

[PCEngineHell]

I agree on that. There is only so much ignorance you can feign on something like a $100+ item you are selling. On something like that a habitual reseller would have examined it thoroughly himself when it came into his possession, so he would have known I would think.

[Miracle_Warrior]

Also, the poster is much smaller than the original.   I only realized this when I compared it to an original poster much later.  When you compare what he sold me to an original it's so obvious that's it's fake it makes me sick to my stomach.

[bozo55]

Also, the poster is much smaller than the original.   I only realized this when I compared it to an original poster much later.  When you compare what he sold me to an original it's so obvious that's it's fake it makes me sick to my stomach.

Without that information it really does look authentic.  The folds look like they've been done by machine.

[MotherGunner]

I hope Null doesn't have a mechanical keyboard.  I bet no one can sleep through that...

[esteban]

I will respond to this in more detail shortly, but this seller sold me fakes and refused to make it right with me.  MMIII and Beyond Shadowgate.  Claims he didn't know they contained repro posters and back inserts, but now I'm seeing he knew damn well they were fake. I want my money back, but I have no recourse because I purchased them away from eBay.  My fault, but he burned a bridge with me and I hope nobody ever buys from this guy.

Damn. Sorry to hear.


UPDATE: While all of this drama was unfolding here (I missed it!), I was FOLDING LAUNDRY.

[escarioth]

buying complete games today is almost like buying art paintings 
lot of fakes around hehehe

can you find the real ones ? 

[CrackTiger]

The fuck are you talking about, boom? The MM3 he/you tried to sell me was on ebay with a fake map. I will post the PM thread when I get time if I need to, along with the ended auction link.

But thanks for stepping up and providing confirmation that this is NOT an isolated incident. I wanted to think that you were not involved in the deception, but now that I see your post and see the ebay auction for bootleg beyond shadowgate, my gut tells me I was a fool for believing you were not complicit in the scamming.

Is the seller a homie or do you get commission? Honest question.

I am not sure why you are thinking that I am involved in any type of scam. I have not nor will I ever do so. I always try try to provide the information to the best of my knowledge. He may have had repro stuff and I never said he did not. I also know that he did not ever say that anything he had was original or repro when listing on e-bay. I have sent some of my stuff in the past to sell for me and he has done so. All of his auctions say to ask questions and make sure that this is what you want to buy. On top of it he offers a 14 day money back guarantee on everything he sells. If he was out to deceive people why would he offer that?  So I guess because I know him I must be in on a scam and that he is defrauding people on e-bay? I have not sold a single thing that was fake to anyone period. There are many on here that could vouch for that. I also do not receive (kick backs) from this seller. He has never done me or anyone from here dirty to the best of my knowledge. I know him from past business deals outside of e-bay and I already questioned him on the matter. This is how I know that the game in question was not sold on e-bay.

You can't be serious and I don't believe you are that dumb.

Bootlegs are not normal and are not considered equal to originals. An eBay seller breaking eBay's rules and selling repro items, even when mixed with authentic parts... and not making any distinctions aside from "what you see is what you get" is 100% a scam.

You may be claiming to be not directly profit from it, but you have now admitted to not being oblivious to someone passing off fakes and originals. And to having this kind of seller sell for you while knowing this.

[Gentlegamer]

buying complete games today is almost like buying art paintings 
lot of fakes around hehehe

can you find the real ones ? 

The collector market edges ever closer to crash.

Crash market, crash!

[escarioth]

For my part i prefer real games but i can do exceptions if the repros are very well made.
with a note to make it appart from an original....
like on a the cd, inside the manual or behind a poster/map

In the end i just want to play the game and own a part of it since im a silly materialist 
what i hate is to pay for a repros over 50$  i mean.. this is not the real thing ...
some repro sellers start to think they're shitting gold 

[Otaking]

buying complete games today is almost like buying art paintings 
lot of fakes around hehehe

can you find the real ones ? 

The collector market edges ever closer to crash.

Crash market, crash!

This is a question I've been pondering for many years now, will the retro game collectors market eventually crash due to repros/fakes?

Years back I first became aware that people had started making fakes/repros when I was looking to pick up a Metal Slug AES again, as I looked into it I found out the market had become littered with fakes. I was aware there was certain things you had to do to spot fakes, but I simply couldn't be bothered with all that, it was all too risky and stressful. I just bailed out of picking up expensive AES games. This got me thinking back then that I can't be the only one thinking this, and as the fakes get better and better they'll become increasingly harder to spot and eventually just collapse the market. The thing is to my suprise, so far anyways this hasn't happened, Neo Geo AES games have continued to rise regardless.
I would of also guessed when those PCE Sapphire bootlegs came along they would effect the value of originals, but they didn't.

I'm still not sure what I think will happen, but I'm leaning towards an eventual crash as repros/fakes get so good that it makes buying "teh rarez" too risky.

[Miracle_Warrior]

Alright, here are the e-mails.  Most recent at the top.  He stopped responding after my last e-mail unfortunately.  As you can see, I paid $525 for BS and MMIII...I definitely wouldn't have paid that for 2 games that contained repro inserts. 

I'll draw your attention to where he claims he didn't know they were fake in his last e-mail to me, and suggested that he couldn't offer a refund because he would have no way of knowing that I didn't put the fake inserts in there myself.
________________________________________________

Hi Allen,

Thanks for the reply, I do agree that the deal was decent, but I never once thought the items were not original.  It's an honest mistake on both our parts.  When I got the game, everything looked fine.  It was until I inspected it further that I realized something was fishy.  It's not all fake.  It's the poster and back insert only.  I can see how this slipped past you and myself as well, but comparing them to official copies of the game left me with a huge pit in my stomach, because despite getting a decent deal, I never would have bought shadowgate if I knew it was not authentic.

Might and Magic seems fine with the exception of the map, but I don't have another copy to compare it to. 

Beyond Shadowgate is the more coveted game of the two I bought, so I'm not sure what the next steps are.  I mean, I can send you shadowgate back if you like.  I can't sell it myself because I know it's not all complete.  Which means did have to sell it as case, cd and manual only which would won't likely be worth the effort. I'd still be the one losing out here. 

I agree that I did say I was happy with the items, but I honestly didn't inspect them as I should have. 

TRF
________________________________________
From: None None <thewarriorsedgegaming>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 2:04:14 PM
To: TRF
Subject: Re: Beyond Shadowgate and Might and Magic III
 
Hi T,

   I was not aware that the inserts or the backing were not real. I get games in lots and only test them for functionality. You did see the photos on Ebay and chose to go outside Ebay for the sale. It has been 2+ months since we have made the deal so I am unsure as to what you would like me to to do? I do not do dirty business as you can see from my feedback. I do not check every little detail for originality as I would not have the time and that's why I list everything as acceptable. With that being said waiting 2 months to contact me on it makes it tough on me to determine that things were the same as when I sold them, not saying you did anything but this is why I do not like to go outside Ebay. I also contacted you shortly after the sale and you were more than happy about what you had received. You also got it for much less than I was asking to begin with and much less than copies that were not complete what so ever. Again I was not aware of the validity of the paper work. I look over prices on Ebay and list mine for a fair price that is most times lower than anyone else.

-Allen


On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 11:32 AM, "TRF" <> wrote:

Hi Allen,
 
Just contacting you again, have you had a chance to review my last e-mail?
 
Tarick

On Friday, May 29, 2015 9:57 AM, "TRF" < > wrote:

Allen, I am writing you in regards to my purchase of Beyond Shadowgate and Might and Magic III.  I'm a bit torn about this, because I've just discovered that not everything in at least the Beyond Shadowgate game is legitimate.  The poster is a reprint and not the official one released with the game.  I don't know if you know this or not, but I have since done more research and even see another copy of the game to compare and the one you sent me definitely isn't legit.  I also suspect that the back insert is also not legit unfortunately.  I am going to check on Might and Magic III as well.  As far as I can tell, the manual and CDs are fine, it's the packaging. 

TRF

 
From: None None [mailto:thewarriorsedgegaming24]
Sent: April 22, 2015 6:57 AM
To: TRF
Subject: Re: Beyond Shadowgate and Might and Magic III
 
Awesome, glad to hear you got them ok.
 
 
On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 3:11 PM, "TRF" < > wrote:
 
Hey there!  Just a heads-up that the games arrived yesterday and I am very happy with them.  Thank you very much!
 
From: None None [mailto:thewarriorsedgegaming24]
Sent: April 04, 2015 3:42 PM
To: TRF
Subject: Re: Beyond Shadowgate and Might and Magic III
 
Just checking in T.
 
    Have you received the games yet?
 
 
On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 7:00 PM, "TRF" < > wrote:
 
As far as Turbografx goes, I'm pretty much right where I want to be.  The only real missing pieces are the games I had mention earlier.  Cotton, Super Air Zonk, Bonk's 3 and Magical Chase (US).  I do have a JP copy of Magical Chase, so that will be a good place holder until I find the US release.  I have the rest of the Hu Cards that were decent on the Turbografx, and the CDs as well.  Oh, Bomberman is one of the hu cards I wouldn't mind picking up. I do have Bomberman '94, but not the original Bomberman.  I see that you have a copy of it, but it's sealed.   
 
Here is a link to my collection:
 
http://gametz.com/?user=Miracle_Warrior&tab=Games&Desire=available&Next=all
 
 
 
 
 
From: None None [mailto:thewarriorsedgegaming24]
Sent: March 25, 2015 4:52 PM
To: TRF
Subject: Re: Beyond Shadowgate and Might and Magic III
 
How far along on your collection are you?
 
 
On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 6:43 PM, "TRF" < > wrote:
 
Thank you very much Allen!  Really excited.
 
From: None None [mailto:thewarriorsedgegaming24]
Sent: March 25, 2015 4:33 PM
To: TRF
Subject: Re: Beyond Shadowgate and Might and Magic III
 
Ok it did not give me the option for tracking number but this is the label number and it said it has delivery confirmation.
 
 
Thanks again, I hope you enjoy them!!!
 
 
On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 5:41 PM, None None <thewarriorsedgegaming24> wrote:
 
yeah, comes with all the goodies too.
 
 
On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 5:23 PM, "TRF" <> wrote:
 
Oh, I see the pictures on your Ebay page.  Really cool man. 
 
From: None None [mailto:thewarriorsedgegaming24]
Sent: March 25, 2015 3:18 PM
To: TRF
Subject: Re: Beyond Shadowgate and Might and Magic III
 
If you do it as a gift I can go 525. Otherwise the 550 covers ship and paypal fees. I am not making much on these games, nor is that my intention. I am into them for a bunch and I am looking to try and at least break even :-) If you are worried about gifting I understand but know I am not here to try and burn people, I would rather you come back and buy more :-) My Ebay feedback says a lot.
 
 
On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 5:03 PM, "TRF" <> wrote:
 
We're so close.  I was going to offer $500 shipped for the pair.
 
From: None None [mailto:thewarriorsedgegaming24]
Sent: March 25, 2015 3:01 PM
To: TRF
Subject: Re: Beyond Shadowgate and Might and Magic III
 
I do have a PCE with cd in box. some PCE games (commons) Sega and the like I am currently collecting myself.
 
Anyhow on to the task at hand. I know how to ship to Canada fairly cheap by using first class mail. If you want the 2 games I can do it for 550 shipped through paypal. First class takes a bit but it avoids the customs hold up so all in all faster than normal. If you are going to take them I will ship them out first thing in the morning for you.
 
 
On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 4:49 PM, "TRF" < > wrote:
 
Nothing in particular, just thought it'd be nice to see what you've got.  I collect mainly for the Turbografx/PC Engine, Sega Master System, Genesis, Sega CD, Saturn and Dreamcast.
 
From: None None [mailto:thewarriorsedgegaming24]
Sent: March 25, 2015 2:37 PM
To: TRF
Subject: Re: Beyond Shadowgate and Might and Magic III
 
Was there something you were looking for?
 
 
On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 4:19 PM, None None <thewarriorsedgegaming24> wrote:
 
No I do not :-(
 
 
On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 3:54 PM, "TRF" < > wrote:
 
That's too bad.  Do you have a website or something with your inventory?
 
From: None None [mailto:thewarriorsedgegaming24]
Sent: March 25, 2015 1:00 PM
To: TRF
Subject: Re: Beyond Shadowgate and Might and Magic III
 
Wow you just missed me lol I had most of them at the start of this month.
 
 
On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 2:58 PM, "TRF" < > wrote:
 
Works for me.  Aside from the games you've got listed, I am also looking for Cotton, Super Air Zonk and Bonk's 3 (CD).  Of course, Magical Chase is another game that continues to elude me, but I don't suppose you've got that kicking around. 
 
TRF
 
From: None None [mailto:thewarriorsedgegaming24]
Sent: March 25, 2015 12:57 PM
To: TRF
Subject: Re: Beyond Shadowgate and Might and Magic III
 
I do often get new stuff soI can keep an eye out if your looking for a boxed one.
 
 
 
On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 2:53 PM, "TRF" < > wrote:
 
No worries man, it was worth a shot. 
 
From: None None [mailto:thewarriorsedgegaming24]
Sent: March 25, 2015 12:48 PM
To: TRF
Subject: Re: Beyond Shadowgate and Might and Magic III
 
No, unfortunately not, I sold my boxed one last month.
 
 
On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 2:46 PM, "TRF" < > wrote:
 
Is the duo boxed?
 
From: None None [mailto:thewarriorsedgegaming24]
Sent: March 25, 2015 12:46 PM
To: TRF
Subject: Re: Beyond Shadowgate and Might and Magic III
 
Almost forgot. I have a region modded Duo also.
 
 
On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 2:44 PM, None None <thewarriorsedgegaming24> wrote:
 
I have a ton of it.I am also getting in 25 more games this week and another system. I currently have 3 core systems loose, one almost brand new boxed system, a region modded cd system, controllers, taps, sticks you name it :-)
 
 
On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 2:40 PM, "TRF" <> wrote:
 
Awesome, glad I guessed right .  Yes, I am interested in both games.  Do you have any other turbografx stuff?
 
From: None None [mailto:thewarriorsedgegaming24]
Sent: March 25, 2015 12:40 PM
To: TRF
Subject: Re: Beyond Shadowgate and Might and Magic III
 
Yes, I had to use yehaw lol Ebay will not allow for any mails with yahoo or any other known .com
 
So you are interested in both games if I read right?
 
 
On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 11:45 AM, "" < > wrote:
 
Hey there, thanks for getting back to me on Ebay.  I was inquiring about these two games.  Hope this email reaches you, as I've never heard of the Yehaw domain, so I thought perhaps you were trying to say Yahoo, so I've included both.
 
TRF

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Madboom defending him (with verbiage eerily similar to that used in the emails from the seller) was enough proof for me.  The seller likely knew EXACTLY what he was selling, and anyone saying it's the buyer's responsibility to ask if something is a repro is a complete jackball.

The preceding assumed that Nulltard's intensions were sincere and that he isn't a total imbecile (that is, that he has the mental calcify to gather legitimate, conclusive proof).

That sounds like a pretty serious condition.  Nully should see a doctor.

[bob]

Let's not forget this gem of a thread...

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=18513.0

[o.pwuaioc]

Gotta love them glossy duos.

[Miracle_Warrior]

So Thewarriorsedgegaming is Ninja?  The plot thickens.

[PCEngineHell]

I don't buy the sellers excuses. When you are a heavy reseller, unless you are a totally irresponsible sack of shit, you would thoroughly inspect your items when they come into your hands. Even if by chance he did not know, it is still on him, even if the issue was not found out until 2-3-6 months after he sold them. The fact is he still sold repro items without properly listing them as such.

On this one I have a feeling that if ebay still had a auction archive of sorts we would be able to see he had gotten the games in some prior auctions incomplete or in a lot auction, and decided to "complete them" in order to jack up his resale price. At this point in my eyes he still owes the buyer a refund, either in full if the goods are returned, or a partial refund. It would have been the right thing to do, and also good for business, as opposed to now, where the news is out that he is not taking responsibility for his fuckups.


To Miracle_Warrior:
https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/security/buyer-protection-resolution

At this point, I was initially under the assumption that the time to open a claim was 60 days in paypal. I am reading now it is 180 days. You could call them and speak to a rep,explain the situation, and go for a full refund. If I was you I would do this today. You will have to return all the items and have tracking showing they were delivered, and due to the value, get signature confirmation.

I would not notify the seller when you would plan to do this. This way PP can freeze the funds he currently has in his account when you open the dispute. Otherwise if he empties it you will be waiting as they slowly freeze his incoming payments from new items he has sold. You will need to provide them with copies of the emails back and forth. You will also need to ask the rep how they want them submitted for review in the dispute.

In regards to taking a loss and reselling the game yourself on ebay. If you are willing to take a loss, then why not just keep said games and enjoy them? Gaming shouldn't be about feeling like you have to take a loss on a investment, and I am kind of getting the feeling that is sorta how you view it.

It should be about enjoying the games you buy. Yes, the purchase was tainted. But the actual disc is legit, as is some other items included with it. I would do what I could to convince or push the reseller to a partial refund, which maybe this thread could do, and keep and enjoy the games, or just do a Paypal dispute and go for a refund.

To Madboom. You know this guy. If you really are honest about this situation, and this friend of yours is really an honest dealer, then you should advise him to be willing to do a partial refund at the least.

Back to Miracle_Warrior. You have a legit copy of a game in your hands now that many people are dishing out good money for just to get a repro of from Tobias. You would be better off keeping the game and enjoying it then just selling it off at a big loss, treating it like some stocks gone bad or a house you are flipping at a loss. If you just cant feel right about keeping the game as is, if it just bothers you too much to enjoy it, then seek help from Paypal for a full refund.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

He's since acquired a second copy in a lot, so why would he keep the one with the fake bits?

[Sparky]

I am going to add this as well, looking at that poster in that link it looks to be the one i made it was smaller just like that one.
It was initially a give away to F-ebay club members but I later got inquiries from other solid members here and I hooked up a few with my left over outputs.

Well look who else I helped out.... Madboom and Ninja16608 ((blush)) they bought stickers and had the post count and bought a few of my inserts and inquired if I had any map repros. They only bought a couple of maps and the poster and like i said in my manual insert sell thread i do not want to see these on ebay.

<<sigh>>  Madboom are those the inserts and posters I sold to you & your friend???

Was it even stated in the auction these were copies?? I think I am going to stop making this paper stuff, even though they do have disclaimers.

i feel bad

[PCEngineHell]

He's since acquired a second copy in a lot, so why would he keep the one with the fake bits?

Did not know he did. I missed that part. So yeah, falls back to option A, I would go for a full refund through paypal.

I am going to add this as well, looking at that poster in that link it looks to be the one i made it was smaller just like that one.
It was initially a give away to F-ebay club members but I later got inquiries from other solid members here and I hooked up a few with my left over outputs.

Well look who else I helped out.... Madboom and Ninja16608 ((blush)) they bought stickers and had the post count and bought a few of my inserts and inquired if I had any map repros. They only bought a couple of maps and the poster and like i said in my manual insert sell thread i do not want to see these on ebay.

<<sigh>>  Madboom are those the inserts and posters I sold to you & your friend???

Was it even stated in the auction these were copies?? I think I am going to stop making this paper stuff, even though they do have disclaimers.

i feel bad

Plot does thicken. Either way it goes, its not on you man. This is a problem that lies solely on Madboom and his friend. You were not passing off your stuff as legit, so they knew that when they bought it. What they chose to do after the fact with the stuff is not your responsibility at all.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

i feel bad

Don't.  The only people that should feel bad are madboom and ninja.