Religion

[Keranu]

Nice points, Nod. I'm not an athiest and I even agree with your points. I never understood that "Pagan is bad" thing either.

[ParanoiaDragon]

I don't know if I would put it as "Pagan is bad", rather, more like, it's not a Christian belief, or whatever.  That's like saying Budhism is bad, no, it's not bad, it's just not in line with Christian beliefs.  I'd say more that worshipping Satan & sacrifing children is bad.  But Pagan isn't bad in itself, atleast, that's my view.

[OldRover]

I've yet to meet anyone who actually worships Satan or sacrifices children...hehehe. Wait though...which Satan are you referring to? My guess is the devil...anyone who "devil worships" is a moron and cannot be called a Satanist, because that's not what they are. True Satanists are probably among the nicest people you'll ever meet. Although rumours abound left and right of them offering up children as sacrifice to Satan, this is complete and utter bullshit and is actually completely against their philosophies (it's #9 in the Eleven Rules Of The Earth, a good link can be found here, more direct information on the religion itself can be found here). But PD, remember...virtually none of the Christian beliefs are actually Christian...they come from a wide variety of old religions. Close to 50% of Christianity is actually Judaism, with the rest scattered amongst other religions, even stuff as far back as the Sumerians. Like most newer religions, it's a mutt.

Anyways, stuff like this always brings out a very interesting point: it is clearly not the differences of others that brings them together in one place, it's the similarities that bring them together. For us all, it's the love of the PCE. Keranu and I spoke of this earlier tonight on IRC...all of us in our group are from very different spiritual backgrounds...yet when it comes down to putting together a game, we simply put these differences aside and work towards that common goal. Why? Because religion doesn't matter when it comes to creating something that people will enjoy.

[PCEngineHell]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformist


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformity_%28psychology%29

I dont go out of my way Guts to step on peoples beliefs,I usually just keep my views on it to myself unless asked,which is basically what I thought this was for here.Basically a tossing of ideas and why we like them or back them.At any rate...
I work as a RA/CNA.The majority of people I help take care of are older,late 60-80ies.They get confort from believing there is a God,and Heaven,and what not.If thats what they need then thats fine.There is a comfort factor there that offers them what they need at this stage in their lives.Id rather have them find comfort in believeing in heaven and not being so scared about passing away then to worry till they die.
Some people need to believe in certain things to die peacfully,and to accept their time.Some,no matter what,simply can not.
I guess you can say it sjust a simple lack of faith,or whatever.I just simply choose to not believe in things like gods,or heavens and hells.I do not go around bragging it,or that I am a athiest.I dont go knocking people for their religions.Its their right.
But Im also against peer pressure,conformist,the Union,ect....lol
I have been to many churchs in my youth,as I woul dgo with  a family member while he was soul serching,trying to find the right church,the place he needed to find to fit in.I went because he was my cousin,and was liek a big brother.But everytime we went to this church or that,I knew right away I didnt fit in,even at a early age,8 or 9.It just was not for me.Even at that age I didnt share the same views,just didnt feel the same way about the good book,and noticed the way people behaved,and I didnt like it.It held true for whatever church,baptist,penticostile,ect.
When I wa smarried to my ex-wife,he rparents,both JWs,invited me to their Kingdom Hall.I went and experienced what some people call the "love bomb" as I was quickly jumped by everyone.I got the feeling it was overly friendly,and by the forth time of going there,when I think they realized I was just going to be polite to my ex inlaws,they no longer were very"loving and warm" people.They realized I was not  a easy convert,and gave me the cold sholder.My ex mothe rin law and I still get along well,esp now,with her daughter running off and ditching the kids,and getting hooked on meth,and doing other things I wont mettion here,I think she has been able to look past the fact that I dont care for religion,for god or whatever,and that not believing in her religion has no impact on how I care for my children,or taht it makes me less of a parent.I think it affected her pride a bit,and my ex father in law espically,to see their daughter,raised in this religion,sink so low,and to see me,who was rasied by a single parent,in  a non-religious home,who is a non-believer of god,do so well in life and with my children.Im a good person,and I have morals.Im not perfect,I dont always do the right thing,espically when there is something like personal gain at stake,but I know enough of what right or wrong means,and I didnt need religion to teach me this.Im my own person,and I perfer to stand on my own,without the aid of others.Thats just the person I am.

[PCEngineHell]

There is one group of people I really like,christian wise however.I may be misprouncing it here,but I think its called the "iglo ni christo"????
Basically they believe in worshipping God using the bible,and not a church,and dont feel the need to have a huge social flock to be able to do this efectivly.They dont need a church,and believe that the body of christ is made up of its members,the individuals,christ,and that the common goal is to worship god.When they do get together,its usually in the home,and they talk about things.I worked with a few when I did security.
Out of any religious types I have met,or talked with,I was most impressed with them.They didnt try to convert,say I was wrong,go on a mission to save me from hell or anything.

[OldRover]

I have a strong dislike of people who try to "convert" me or "save my soul". In the past, I dealt with these people very harshly...I have a flail made of spanish steel that looks extremely vicious, and I would carry it with me to the door when they showed up at my doorstep. They'd start in on their "we can save your soul" speech, and when they came up for air, I'd say something similar to "You say you can save me, but who's going to save YOU?" and that's when the weapon would come out. One look at the barbaric thing in my hand and they were GONE. Took five groups of these people getting this kind of repulsion before they all got the hint and left us the hell alone. Cruel? Yes, of course...so why did I do it? Because I could...Rule #4 of the Eleven Rules Of The Earth states "If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy". So I did. Of course, times have changed now...I'd never do that nowadays, I'd simply tell them "I'm not interested" and shut the door. But things were different back then...although I still have a strong dislike of people who try to convert others or "save their soul". People have to find their own path in life or they will be weak their whole life.

The events I described here happened after a group of Christians made a very intentional attempt on my life because I was an admitted Pagan. Needless to say...I didn't exactly feel a lot of like for Christians for a looooooooong time after that...

[ParanoiaDragon]

Love Bomb????  That's a new one  I can speak from experience & say that every congregation in every Kingdom Hall is different.  Mine is pretty friendly, but they don't seem to bombard people.  I know I wouldn't want to be bombarded.  I'm personally not the type of person to just go up to someone visiting the Kingdom Hall & introduce myself, I'm way too shy for that kind of thing, & like I mentioned earlier, I've seen people try to become Witnesses for a girl, or whatever, so, it's always hard for me to be too openhanded.  But, I've seen people that have visited, that have been impressed, that ones come up to them, & welcome them, despite their race, dress, demeanor, etc.  But, in all my years, I've also seen people get the wrong idea about how people were treating them, including ones that were raised as JW's that felt other JW's looked down upon them.  I myself have a tendancy to think people don't like me, but I always somehow these days, "try" to shrug it off.  

And, yeah it's hard when you raise your child a certain way, & they end up messed up, I've seen that a million times.  I feel there's a balance to how you raise a child, no matter what your religion.  But even then, there's also the influence of other's they meet thruout their life that also make a difference, so 2 children, raised by the same people, the same way, end up being totally different.  If those people treated you coldly, I'm sorry about that, that's not right.  

As for converting, we don't exactly go out directly to do that, it's still a person's choice whatever they want to believe.  We are out to preach the good news of God's Kingdom first & foremost.  We go by 2 main scriptures.  Mathew 24:14(which is a prophecy)This good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth, for a witness to all the nations, & then the end will come.  And Mathew 28:19 & 20(which is a command)Go therefore & make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the father, the son, & the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.  And look!  I am with you until the conclusion of the system of things.  So, the scripture doesn't say go therefore & force your beliefs upon others, but it does say to make disciples, so we all try to follow that commanment, & bring the message of God's Kingdom to others.  As for "soul saving" I don't think that was a Witness, since people that say that, seem to be speaking about an immortal soul, which we don't believe in.

As for Christianity, we were Jews in the time of the Hebrew scritptures, but Jesus saw how corrupt the Pharisee's & Saducee's were, & some became Christians, & some stayed Jew's, so, yeah, I know about that.

BTW, Nod, have I ever tried to convert you   Nope, I may state my beliefs, but, I don't try to force my opinion....atleast, I don't think I do :   And, actually, I'm not sure about other religions, but, with all the Witnesses I know, we're really dirverse.  We all have our own tastes in music(though some music is advised against like rap because of reputations that some music has for raunchy lyrics, but they don't say DO NOT LISTEN TO IT.......speaking of which, I've been listening to hip hop since I was a wee lad.....but not the stuff on the radio, I'm an indie/underground head), different tastes in movies(R-rated are advised against, which is understandable, but there are a few I watch, like Office Space, but don't tell anyone, K ), hobbies(like video games, though, I only know 1 or 2, that are into it like me ), etc.  So, we deffinitly have individuality.  It seems, & correct me if I'm wrong, that other religions have their own music that they make them listen to(like all those infomercials).  I guess maybe they're not forced, but, it just seems like that's all they listen to, is Christian music......which we don't listen to at all!  We do have our own songs that we sing at the begining, middle, & end of a meeting, as I'm sure you know, but, you won't see us in a tricked out Christianmobile bumping Kingdom Melodies.  And that's not to say I never listen to them in my car, I do, but it's just different.  I'm not sure how else to explain it.

Oh, & we do put emphasis on being together to discuss the scriptures, & we also do our own research as individuals.  But, I feel it is important to be together with ones with the same beliefs, especially when this world can become so tiring.

[GUTS]

Holy shit, did that guy just say that he used to pull a FLAIL on mormons and that a group of christians tried to assassinate him?  HAHAHA!  As bullshit made-up stories go, that's actually pretty funny.  I can just picture a bunch of christians sitting around their church-

"This flail toting pagan guy and his 11 rules of the earth are really throwing a monkey wrench in our plans!  Word on the street is that he is secretly writing a 12th rule and forging and even BIGGER flail as we speak, you all realize of course that this means war!"

"You mean like a holy war against the satanic forces he's martialing against us?"

"No I mean we just straight up kill him, fuck all that 'thou shalt not murder' shit!"

HAHAHAHA awesome.

[OldRover]

Nope PD, you've never tried to convert me.

GUTS, I'm glad you find my life so amusing.

[PCEngineHell]

The problem I see with this PD is that you admit to being a individual in your group,but the things you list as doing that make you unique you seem to have to hide from the others in your group,if not all,some at least,which makes you complies to the comformist.You cant openly admit you watch these movies,listen to this music,blah blahblah blah.Do you,ok let me rephrase this,as I do not know wether you actually play this or not,watch this or that,but lets say you do play Doom 3,Quake 4,Narc,GTA 3- San Andreas,watch Natural Born Killers,Office Space,the Damn Show,Vampire Hunter D,IWA Death Matches,listen to your hip hop, and what not.If you admited to doing these things,did not hide them,do you think youd be eligible to be a Elder in your congergation?Do you think youd be embrased for being a individual? Even though your this really great guy,devoted husband,wonderful father,never un-employed,taking care of the family,and what not,lets say you did all the above,thi swould def make you unique,and not fitting into the status quo.Do you think they would embrase you as a individual if you openly admited to doing all these things? I dont think so.Actually,as you said,you pretty much have to hide your lifestyle from them so that you can fit in.
To me a great religion,and group to be apart of would be where your were not looked down on for these little things,scolded,not allowed to speak,defelowshipped,or anything involving a form of isolation,worried about being singled out,ect,but instead praised/embrased for all the good/great/wonderful qualities you exhibit as a human being,as a father,husband,worker,person in general.
To me,if this was the main concern in the group,religion,church,whatever,it would strengthen,and prosper far better.

[ParanoiaDragon]

Um, actually, people know I listen to hip hop, & sometimes watch rated R movies(though it's rare for me to watch those).  Infact, my dad is an elder, & has watched rated R movies, & knows that I sometimes do, but at the same time, none of these things are things that we go around promoting.  None of these things are immoral or anything, they're just not recomended.  Also, I would never play Doom 3, or anything like that, those games are fricken disgusting IMO.  Would I even want to be an elder?  No, that's not something I think I'm capable of.  But, I'm totally my own individual, & people know & see that, like they see everyone else in our congregation as individuals, so I don't see your point.  There's things some of us might be into, that we're not going to promote, even if they are clean, like most the hip hop I listen to, because I don't like cussing.  In otherwords, we don't go around telling people, hey, we watched this movie, or listened to this album, what'd be the point in that.

[PCEngineHell]

http://www.macgregorministries.org/jw_lawyers.html

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/88139/1.ashx

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/42103/1.ashx

http://anevsky.blogspot.com/2005/04/jws-and-orthodoxes.html

http://www.freeminds.org/buss/gary_feedback.htm


The links could go on and on,but I figure a few of you on here might find this stuff informing,or entertaining,or useless.Depends on how you look at it I suppose.
The first link,all its information,everything it states,I can attest to and say its all truth.I divorced a JWs daughter,who at the time was still attending the Kingdom Hall,and the tactics listed did happen to me to the T,my divorce was bitter,and lasted 2 years,and cost me a fortune,and after all this,the supposedly wonderful loving JW daughter turned out to be a repeate clepto,probation violating,harrassing,child molesting meth addict whore,whose parents covered up for all these years untill now,after they started to realize their religion was not going to change,or save their daughter,and that they were in fact wrong,and taht what they did cause more harm to their grandchildren then they will ever wish to admit to taking even 1 percent of responsibility for.If they wouldnt have continusly back stabbed me,backed me when their daughter started her path to begin with,nothing would have happened to my children.But things like losing eldership at the time were more important.That and back stabbing me because I was a athiest.It didnt mean shit to them because at the time I was evil,I wasnt a JW.There may be a slight posibility,maybe even more then that that your not like this PD,but I think,and there are too many others in the world to account for this and can attest to all over the world,not just in dumb ass arkansas,that the group that you retain membership with is infact made up of  a majority of spineless puppets,and inconsiderate asswipes,and mindless conformist.If you are infact what you say you are,and there were more people like you leading the group,being the "Elders",maybe youd stand a chance and have a shot at changing this image,but as it stands,this image was earned,with alot of hard work.I understand and feel sorry for you.Its hard to admit,to see outside what your taught,what you grew up to believe,and evolve.I knwo youd argue this up and down and state Im wrong,but I along with "millions" of others have felt the JWs wraith,in one way or another.Anyone here who only has to go through the typical door to door should consider yourselves lucky,because after you slam that door shut,its over.Its also sad that I have to feel like now my ex inlaws are better people then when they were in fact my extended family.They are still heavy JW,and thats fine,but I hate that it took all of this mess that their daughter did to have them finally open their eyes and see how they were being.And I cant even begin to imangine how it is for them,at the age of 60 now,to have to go trough all this.I really feel sorry for them.I think if they could have been people first,JWs second,soem of the thinsg that happened could have,would have been avoided.But the past cant be changed,and I hope they dont carry the burden of regret.Their daughter is their own person.
O yea,btw PD,I have never known any guy who has fallen for a JW girl.Not once.When I met my ex,she was fully against her parents.She didnt start to agree with their views untill it served her purposes.Once it didnt anymore,she ditched those views,86 them.
Id rather have a Doom playing,r watching,NIN loving woman,or for that matter a opera loving book reading,multi religion studing,openminded woman at my side,not  a single minded,told what to do,programed for Jehova fearing robot child who couldnt survive if seperated from the Borg woman,or girl,any day of the week.

[PCEngineHell]

Come on PD,just try some 2Live Crew,it will be good for ya!!!

[OldRover]

Mike, you make some good points, but as I had to learn from my experiences with bad Christians, not everyone is the same, regardless of the label they bear. It is true that a good number of people cling so fiercely to their religion that common sense rolls off of them like water off of a duck's back. But not everyone is like that. PD is a good example of a JW who isn't a zealot or a fundamentalist. If he was, I wouldn't be able to work with him. If there's one thing I can't stand, it's a censor, whining and babbling on about the moral ramifications of the work I do, and a censor who's also a religious zealot is the absolute worst and gives me thoughts of "returning in kind" what happened to me and my late ex. Most of Frozen Utopia is religious in some way, only a few of us are atheist, yet we all get along because we have one thing that a great deal of people do not have, and that is tolerance.

It's good to be atheist, and it's good to fight ignorance whenever it rears its ugly head. But, also realize two things: those who choose to remain ignorant are not worthy of you and your time, and there will always be ignorant people in this world...they provide us with two things: a shining example of what kind of person NOT to be, and quite frankly...a great source of entertainment.

[ParanoiaDragon]

Wow, those links are hilarious, especially things like calling one's mate an agent of Satan, so to speak, as if they have some link to Satan, that's a good laugh.  And a good Witness never divorces someone, just because their mate is of another religion.  The only ground for divorce, is adultery, that's it, that's what's in the Bible.  When a so called Witness divorces someone on any other grounds, we're not happy with that, since it goes against the Bible's principles, but we still associate with them.

A cult???  That's one of the biggest laughs in there.  As I already stated, a cult is a group that follows a human individual........who the hell is this guy that we supposedly follow??  And since when to we not associate with non JW relatives?  That's a new one   And a person will die at Armageddon, if they don't get there children away from their non believing mate, wow, don't know where they pulled that one out of, they obviously haven't done their research.  And, btw, lying is a sin, lyer's will not inherit God's kingdom, so, the notion that we'd lie to anyone, just to get our children, blah blah, total BS.  Justitfied lying, wow, that's hilarious.

Elderly people that are lonely are easy to so called "convert"?  Quite the opposite!  Most elderly people are set in their ways, & don't want to think about anything else.

I'm sorry, there's just too much BS in there to even comment on, I could go on forever, but it wouldn't matter, you have your own opinion, & your entitled to that.

BTW, this thread was started by K, just to see what people's beliefs were, not to go around saying what's wrong with other peoples beliefs.  I'm sure I'm guilty too, since I put down Christmas & such, so I probably shouldn't have done that in the manner that I did.

[ParanoiaDragon]

Oh, & 2 Live Crew sucks IMO, they're not the most intelligent group IMO.  I'm more of an Aceyalone, Jurassic 5, Public Enemy, etc. kind of guy

[PCEngineHell]

I was joking about 2Live Crew,because of the cussing,just wanted to yank your chain.

[ParanoiaDragon]

I figured as much   I listen to some hip hop with cussing, especially when there's a group that I love, but there's no clean version, like with some of the Wu-tang's stuff, though sometimes I make my own clean version.  I just feel that cussing takes away from what's being said in a song, so when I hear alot of it, it's a turn off to me.

[rag-time4]

Nice points, Nod. I'm not an athiest and I even agree with your points. I never understood that "Pagan is bad" thing either.

From an Islamic perspective, "Pagan is bad" only if the Pagan rituals are not based on Truth. Glorifying Truth is glorifying Allah, but Glorifying "other than the truth" is glorifying something other than Allah. (Qur'An 21:18)

There is a story in this Surah (chapter) of the Qur'An about Abraham, and some pagans/idolators (Qur'An 21:51-75). To summarize the story, the prophet Abraham happens upon a group of pagans, who worship stone idols. Abraham tells them that Allah is God, and Abraham tells them that he plans to plot against their idols. Abraham destroys the idols except for the chief idol, and asks the idolators to ask the chief who destroyed the rest of the idols. They were made to realize that their pagan traditions were not based on Truth. Abraham says clearly that their pagan gods do neither good nor harm, and that worshipping them makes no sense. The pagans became angry and tried to kill Abraham, but Abraham was delivered by Allah and was able to escape.

Since the pagans in this story chose to value their pagan traditions more than the real Truth, the traditions are "bad" from an Islamic perspective. They only serve to waste time and take people away from submitting to the Truth.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=59&chapter=5&verse=21&version=50&context=verse

In answer to Keranu's original question about what our religious beliefs are, I'm a Muslim, and I believe that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad is the last and greatest Messenger of Allah.

http://www.noi.org/

[Ceti Alpha]

I am not an atheist, as the term atheism implies another set of beliefs. Rather, I'm an anti-theist patiently waiting for a post-theist society. 

[nat]

I am not an atheist, as the term atheism implies another set of beliefs. Rather, I'm an anti-theist patiently waiting for a post-theist society. 

Yeah, you and me both.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

And like Lazarus, this thread has risen.

I'm half snake handler and half Druid.

[rag-time4]

And like Lazarus, this thread has risen.

I'm half snake handler and half Druid.

Always a cool thing about this forum...

You never know what long-forgotten post will be risen from the ashes...

WISE FWOM YOUR GWAVE!!

I wonder if Keranu is still into Islam??

[Hobo Xiphas]

This is a really weird topic

I am a Jedi like my father before me

[guyjin]

So, yeah, I'm an Atheist too. (i wonder if they put anti-religion hypno-chips in the TG16?)

i kinda took a while to get there. I was sort of deistic for a while, and then I had this stupid wiccan phase, and then I was Agnostic, and then  I realized it was all baloney.

It's funny that we get all huffy and mad over game console arguments but are pretty laid back about religion 

[Ceti Alpha]

It's funny that we get all huffy and mad over game console arguments but are pretty laid back about religion  Eh?

Atheism does what religion don't!!!   

Who says we don't get huffy? hehe

[Keranu]

In answer to Keranu's original question about what our religious beliefs are, I'm a Muslim, and I believe that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad is the last and greatest Messenger of Allah.

http://www.noi.org/

Wow, a Nation of Islam Muslim on the forums! Asalaam alaikum wa rahmatuallah wa barakatuh! When I originally posted how I didn't think pagans were bad, I was referring to a more modern version of pagans, not like the old Meccan ones who did various nasty acts like killing daughters and sacrificing children, etc... I'm well aware of Ibrahim's (saw) story and it's mentioned in other parts of the Quran as well and he's one of the prophets I look up to the most and is a real strong point in the history of Islam.

I wonder if Keranu is still into Islam??

I'm probably a trillion times more into Islam than I was when I first made this post, haha. I made this back before I even said shahadah. It's good to see other brothers on the forum.

[Joe Redifer]

I was raised Catholic and went to a Catholic high school.  I was never very religious and didn't really even think about it until I met someone who actually believed in the Adam and Eve story in the Bible.  I didn't say anything to him, but I just couldn't comprehend that someone, anyone, could actually hold that as actual truth!  That made me take a long hard look at religion as a whole, and I decided it was illogical.  I suppose I am an atheist since I don't believe in any gods, but I don't like that term since it sounds kind of abrasive.  When I asked I prefer to say that I'm not religious.

I think religion is mainly used for power and money these days.  Lots of people are religious because they were raised that way and cannot imagine things being any other way.  Others are religious because they simply want to believe in an afterlife and immortality (re: fear of death).  I do not think one needs religion to have morals.  The belief in gods has always seemed rather primitive, and most religions got their start back when there was little scientific understanding of, well, anything.  How the hell is man going to rationalize his creation in those days?  Believing in a higher power really is the only way such a simple mind can comprehend it.  But mankind is aging and learning more and more.  While we certainly don't know everything and never could, I think religion will be well on the decline for the next couple hundred years or so. 

I really like this quote: "When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things."  That's is just awesome.  Think of mankind as the child in this scenario.  When he was young we created religion.  Now that we are starting to mature, many are seeing differently and will continue to do so into the foreseeable future.

All religions are wrong.  If they weren't, why would there be so many?  Wouldn't god want everyone to believe in the correct way?  What makes YOUR religion the correct one and every other religion the wrong one (I'm not speaking to any specific forum member here)?  If you believe in the wrong religion, you are doing a disservice to god and he might smite you.  Are you absolutely CERTAIN that you believe in the correct religion?  Are you willing to take that risk?

[Kitsunexus]

I don't give a fuck if anything's up there or not, but it's probably not. I'm like Joe, when someone asks, I'm "not religious".


BUT...

"When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things."

Fuck that. I still buy action figures, eat sugary breakfast cereal, listen to loud annoying techno, watch cartoons, enjoy going to places like Toys 'R Us, play an obsessive amount of videogames, stay up late reading comics, blow things up with firecrackers, mix candy with soda (2 whole boxes of Nerds + 1 bottle Mountain Dew Code Red, baby), shoot things with BB guns, make prank phone calls, find weird bugs and other miscellaneous childish acts.


You and your quote can go to old fogey hell.

[Turbo D]

I'm with Kitsunexus. LoL at old man Redifur 

[ParanoiaDragon]

Hmm, though, as a child, I didn't understand the concept of God, the Bible, Adam & Eve, etc.  Now that I'm older, I do

[Keranu]

Hmm, though, as a child, I didn't understand the concept of God, the Bible, Adam & Eve, etc.  Now that I'm older, I do

Haha, same here.

[Joe Redifer]

*Sigh*

I'm not talking about us as individuals, I'm talking about mankind as a whole.  I guess this is not a good place for comprehension.

I understand the concept of God, Adam and Eve and the Bible.  The problem is that I don't believe in blind faith.  That's retarded.

[Hobo Xiphas]

Hmm, though, as a child, I didn't understand the concept of God, the Bible, Adam & Eve, etc.  Now that I'm older, I do

A Cyberpunk parody taught me the meaning of Adam and Eve

It is an allegory of the liberation of mankind from the evil tyranny of the Me

I don't want any lip from you folks because that is what it really means okay

[ParanoiaDragon]

The evil tyranny of you?  What does Adam & Eve have to do with you & tryanny?

[TR0N]

Don't fool the pope 

Still if you ask me religion is over rated to begin with.

Oh and i haven't gone to a church since i was a kid.

It's hard to take religion seriously when you have idots like,Pat Robertson of the 700 club that make christiany look like a joke 

Oh and btw.

NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!

[guyjin]

how bibles are made...

[Nazi NecroPhile]

For someone who's not religious, Joe did a nice job of quoting the bible (Corinthians 13:11).

Fuck that. I still buy action figures, eat sugary breakfast cereal, listen to loud annoying techno, watch cartoons, enjoy going to places like Toys 'R Us, play an obsessive amount of videogames, stay up late reading comics, blow things up with firecrackers, mix candy with soda (2 whole boxes of Nerds + 1 bottle Mountain Dew Code Red, baby), shoot things with BB guns, make prank phone calls, find weird bugs and other miscellaneous childish acts.


You and your quote can go to old fogey hell.

Don't let the hair on your sack fool you, you're still not a man if you're playing with those action figures with the reckless abandon of a four year old, eating the cereal while pitching a fit because your brother took the enclosed toy, or begging mommy to buy you something shiny at TRU and throwing a tantrum when she says no.  There's a profound difference between being a bit immature at times and reasoning as a child would.

[Joe Redifer]

For someone who's not religious, Joe did a nice job of quoting the bible (Corinthians 13:11).

I know, that's one of the reasons I like the quote so much.  I use religion against itself.

[rag-time4]

how bibles are made...

Guyjin, great image. I believe that any real Truth is good enough to follow, even the stories of the Africans menioned in box 1. The fact that much of that Truth has been corrupted and confused later on doesn't make the original Truth any less True.

Sadly, even though the Holy Qur'An is still presented in its original Arabic, there are many sects and divisions within the Arab-speaking Muslim community (which is forbidden by the Qur'An, by the way...).

Even among the Nation of Islam Muslims here in the U.S. there are divisions, particularly between those who accept Brother Minister Farrakhan and those who don't... but with the exception of what happened to Brother Malcolm X, the Nation of Islam Muslims are setting an example on how differing groups can coexist without spilling each others blood.

Wow, a Nation of Islam Muslim on the forums! Asalaam alaikum wa rahmatuallah wa barakatuh! When I originally posted how I didn't think pagans were bad, I was referring to a more modern version of pagans, not like the old Meccan ones who did various nasty acts like killing daughters and sacrificing children, etc... I'm well aware of Ibrahim's (saw) story and it's mentioned in other parts of the Quran as well and he's one of the prophets I look up to the most and is a real strong point in the history of Islam.

I'm probably a trillion times more into Islam than I was when I first made this post, haha. I made this back before I even said shahadah. It's good to see other brothers on the forum.

Wa alaikum salaam brother!

I think just about everyone here will bear witness that you set a great example on how people can get along together peacefully and treat one another with respect.

With regards to pagans, even more peaceful modern ones... I believe that the reason paganism is bad is that it represents belief in "other than the Truth", which is a waste of time. Allah wants humanity, I believe, to submit to the Truth. So when people submit to "other than the Truth," naturally this is in opposition to the Will of Allah.

The condemnation of the "christmas tree" in the book of Jeremiah in the Bible is a good example, I think, of the reason that even relatively harmless pagan traditions are "bad."

This story says essentially the same thing as the story of Abraham I posted above.

This is perhaps my thesis (Jeremiah 10:8 ): "But they are altogether dull-hearted and foolish; A wooden idol is a worthless doctrine."

Allah doesn't want people to be dull hearted and foolish, following useless customs and wasting time. I believe he wants us to be righteous Muslims, in submission to the Truth.

[nat]

"When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things."

Fuck that. I still buy action figures, eat sugary breakfast cereal, listen to loud annoying techno, watch cartoons, enjoy going to places like Toys 'R Us, play an obsessive amount of videogames, stay up late reading comics, blow things up with firecrackers, mix candy with soda (2 whole boxes of Nerds + 1 bottle Mountain Dew Code Red, baby), shoot things with BB guns, make prank phone calls, find weird bugs and other miscellaneous childish acts.


You and your quote can go to old fogey hell.

That's because you're still a child. ;)

Seriously, though, you're 19 right? I've changed a shitload since I was 19 (going on 26 now). You don't think it happens, but it does. Those things you list that you find so much joy in today start to slowly slip out of your life. You don't realize it's happening until you stop and realize, hey, it's been 5 years since I made a prank call. Or hey, it's been 8 years since I beat up my little brother for stealing the toy out of my cereal box. Or even-- hey, it's been 8 years since I beat up my little brother for ANY reason.

Yeah, I still play video games quite a bit, but that's part of my life and I imagine it always will be to some extent. I play a lot more now and can appreciate much more in the games than I did as a kid first playing the NES in 1987.

It's funny, your message made me realize how long it's been since I've blown anything up with some kind of fire cracker or explosive.

As far as religion goes, I'm with Joe all the way. I was raised by athiest parents, but I actually got into religion a little bit in middle school when I went out with this Mormon chick. I learned quite a bit about the religion, and that's kind of when I decided for myself that many religions are fucked up and flawed to begin with. In high school, I dated and had a serious relationship (4 years or so) with a girl who was raised in a Christian family. I went to church with them often but her parents absolutely hated me because I wasn't Christian and thus wasn't "Godly." Chrisitianity was slightly less fucked up than Mormonism, but in the end only reaffirmed what I'd already discovered.

[rag-time4]

I was raised Catholic and went to a Catholic high school.  I was never very religious and didn't really even think about it until I met someone who actually believed in the Adam and Eve story in the Bible.  I didn't say anything to him, but I just couldn't comprehend that someone, anyone, could actually hold that as actual truth!  That made me take a long hard look at religion as a whole, and I decided it was illogical.  I suppose I am an atheist since I don't believe in any gods, but I don't like that term since it sounds kind of abrasive.  When I asked I prefer to say that I'm not religious.

I think religion is mainly used for power and money these days.  Lots of people are religious because they were raised that way and cannot imagine things being any other way.  Others are religious because they simply want to believe in an afterlife and immortality (re: fear of death).  I do not think one needs religion to have morals.  The belief in gods has always seemed rather primitive, and most religions got their start back when there was little scientific understanding of, well, anything.  How the hell is man going to rationalize his creation in those days?  Believing in a higher power really is the only way such a simple mind can comprehend it.  But mankind is aging and learning more and more.  While we certainly don't know everything and never could, I think religion will be well on the decline for the next couple hundred years or so. 

I really like this quote: "When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things."  That's is just awesome.  Think of mankind as the child in this scenario.  When he was young we created religion.  Now that we are starting to mature, many are seeing differently and will continue to do so into the foreseeable future.

All religions are wrong.  If they weren't, why would there be so many?  Wouldn't god want everyone to believe in the correct way?  What makes YOUR religion the correct one and every other religion the wrong one (I'm not speaking to any specific forum member here)?  If you believe in the wrong religion, you are doing a disservice to god and he might smite you.  Are you absolutely CERTAIN that you believe in the correct religion?  Are you willing to take that risk?

Joe, my mom went to a Catholic high school too. She came out of that experience totally against organized religion in all forms. She was very upset by her teachers, who she felt didn't do a good job of answering her questions when she asked questions about Catholicism.

When I was first exploring religion and getting into Islam, I was dating a Catholic woman. I used to ask her questions here and there about her beliefs but I was never really impressed with her answers. It was really a case of her being raised into it and not really thinking critically about it too much.

I believe we should test all religions, ideas, and beliefs as much as we can, and accept whatever we find to be true.

When I was younger I used to agree with Karl Marx that "religion is the opiate of the masses," but when I discovered the Nation of Islam, I had to discard Marx' idea on religion as it was disproven, for me, by the fact that the Nation of Islam is centered about taking an already-opiated people and cleaning them up, and putting them in positions of leadership.

[Kitsunexus]

Seriously, though, you're 19 right?

2O.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Chrisitianity was slightly less fucked up than Mormonism, but in the end only reaffirmed what I'd already discovered.

Pssst!  The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (a.k.a. Mormons) is a branch of Christianity.  Keep it quiet; it's a secret. 

I fully understand what you're saying though (just replace 'Christianity' with 'Lutheran', 'Protestant', 'Baptist', or whatever).  It's difficult to keep a straight face when a member of one Christian church argues that his church is better than another.  "Uh, mine's better 'cause..... ah, we don't have to kneel during mass.  Yeah, that's it."

[nat]

She was baptist, although I won't pretend to understand the heirarchy or organizational relationships of popular religion.

The Mormons seemed quite a bit more fucked up (that's the only way I can really describe it) than the baptists. I suppose the basis of the beliefs was the same/similar. But magic underwear? C'mon.

[guyjin]

Guyjin, great image. I believe that any real Truth is good enough to follow, even the stories of the Africans menioned in box 1. The fact that much of that Truth has been corrupted and confused later on doesn't make the original Truth any less True.

Any book can look wise and good and true when you willfuly ignore the parts that are foolish and evil and false.
Sort of like saying the SegaCD is a good system if you ignore the FMV crap.

[rag-time4]

Guyjin, great image. I believe that any real Truth is good enough to follow, even the stories of the Africans menioned in box 1. The fact that much of that Truth has been corrupted and confused later on doesn't make the original Truth any less True.

Any book can look wise and good and true when you willfuly ignore the parts that are foolish and evil and false.
Sort of like saying the SegaCD is a good system if you ignore the FMV crap.

It's not the "book" itself that "looks wise and good" to me, only the Truth in the book.

[Hobo Xiphas]

The evil tyranny of you?  What does Adam & Eve have to do with you & tryanny?

Learn Sumerian and you will understand everything

[GUTS]

Guyjin, great image. I believe that any real Truth is good enough to follow, even the stories of the Africans menioned in box 1. The fact that much of that Truth has been corrupted and confused later on doesn't make the original Truth any less True.

Any book can look wise and good and true when you willfuly ignore the parts that are foolish and evil and false.
Sort of like saying the SegaCD is a good system if you ignore the FMV crap.

Or saying that the SNES was a good system if you ignore all the horrible, shit games for retards.

[nat]

Guyjin, great image. I believe that any real Truth is good enough to follow, even the stories of the Africans menioned in box 1. The fact that much of that Truth has been corrupted and confused later on doesn't make the original Truth any less True.

Any book can look wise and good and true when you willfuly ignore the parts that are foolish and evil and false.
Sort of like saying the SegaCD is a good system if you ignore the FMV crap.

Or saying that the SNES was a good system if you ignore all the horrible, shit games for retards.

Hahaha..... We can always count on GUTS to diss the SNES at every opportunity.