Religion

[OldRover]

I am not an atheist, as the term atheism implies another set of beliefs. Rather, I'm an anti-theist patiently waiting for a post-theist society. 

That's not what atheist means, it's more or less what modern-day atheists have become. The word "atheism" means "no theism", or a lack of theistic beliefs. It's not a ruleset, it's not a religion. Although I do have to say that I too am awaiting a post-theist society...but that won't be the USA, there are too many zealots and charlatans left who are indoctrinating young children against their will into religion. All religious schools should be destroyed. Faith is a very personal thing, but religion is constantly being beaten into the heads of our youth; they grow up with whatever faith system was implanted into their heads during their childhood and rarely have a chance to develop one of their own. I personally oppose all organized religion, as history shows time and time again without exception that it is merely a tool that a corrupt person will use for their own personal gain against the naive masses of sheep who are looking for salvation and peace.

[CrackTiger]

Or saying that the SNES was a good system if you ignore all the horrible, shit games for retards.

Hahaha..... We can always count on GUTS to diss the SNES at every opportunity.

I seriously do this to enjoy the decent games for various consoles. Hardware is irrelevant, I'll try any half-decent game if it might be fun. Even if a system only has a game or two I like, its worthwhile to me. Of course, I'm talking mainly cheap retro consoles. The PS3 is still only an expensive bluray movie player to me.

I am not an atheist, as the term atheism implies another set of beliefs. Rather, I'm an anti-theist patiently waiting for a post-theist society. 

That's not what atheist means, it's more or less what modern-day atheists have become. The word "atheism" means "no theism", or a lack of theistic beliefs.

This is why I don't label myself or identify myself under someone else's beliefs.

It's not a ruleset, it's not a religion.

Try telling that to people who call themselves atheists and congregate with fellow atheists and are confrontational to people who don't identify themselves by the same title... -or people with various learned beliefs who label those of us who don't practice any standardized beliefs/religion/etc as such.

[Keranu]

*Sigh*

I'm not talking about us as individuals, I'm talking about mankind as a whole.  I guess this is not a good place for comprehension.

I understand the concept of God, Adam and Eve and the Bible.  The problem is that I don't believe in blind faith.  That's retarded.

I really enjoy reading comments like these from non-religious people because most of the time it agrees with Islam   . Islam is not a religion of blind faith, but a religion of rationality and thought. The Quran tells us to use logic when reading it and frequently asks mankind to reflect their thoughts on various subjects.

All religions are wrong.  If they weren't, why would there be so many?

I'll answer this from an Islamic perspective. There are so many different religions because a lot of them are man made. In Islam, we believe the religion has been around since Adam (peace be upon him) and passed down from generation to generation with a prophet sent to every nation. Through time and ignorance, mankind has corrupted the message which led it to different religions. When god sent the final messenger, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), his final revelation was revealed in the form of the Quran and the message has been kept intact for over 1,400 years. Even if you were to destory every Quran on the planet, the message would still exist thanks to the thousands of Muslims who have remembered the entire Quran.

Wouldn't god want everyone to believe in the correct way?

How is anyone to say how god works? To answer your question though, many religions preach how this life is but a trial, so of course there are going to be those who don't believe in the religion and it's all god's plan. We are told in the Quran that there are people out there who simply won't listen or understand a word you say because that's just the way they are and I can't agree with this enough as I have talked to several people who have words going in one ear and straight out the other. You also have to keep in mind the shaitan's (satan) duty is to mislead people the best he can - what a tricky bastard!

What makes YOUR religion the correct one and every other religion the wrong one (I'm not speaking to any specific forum member here)?

Religion is about faith, not fact. Islam is correct to me because I personally believe it, but I am not going to go around telling non-Muslims they are wrong because they don't accept Islam. I care more about people's respect than faith.

If you believe in the wrong religion, you are doing a disservice to god and he might smite you.

Not necessarily true. You don't have to be a Muslim to enter jannah (paradise) from an Islampic perspective. "Islam" is Arabic for "submission to god" and by that definition, you're technically a Muslim if you just believe in one god. We are told that Christians and Jews are able to enter Jannah (paradise) as well the Sabians and as far as I know, anyone who just believes in one god, are allowed to enter as well. Children are automatically accepted.

Sadly, even though the Holy Qur'An is still presented in its original Arabic, there are many sects and divisions within the Arab-speaking Muslim community (which is forbidden by the Qur'An, by the way...).

Yes this is most unfortunate . I'm sure Muhammad (pbuh) would've greatly disapproved of the way the following caliphs behaved.

I think just about everyone here will bear witness that you set a great example on how people can get along together peacefully and treat one another with respect.

I think there is a misconception that different religions hate each other. We are not taught "hate" in Islam (and I'm sure several other religions as well) period. Jews and Christians are "People of the Book" and believe in much of the same as I do, so they are practically brothers to me, but I consider mankind as a whole as a brotherhood in humanity. By the way, people need to quit hating on Mormons because despite whatever they choose to believe in, they will remain to be friendlier people than most are and that's what counts.

[Ceti Alpha]

Well said Keranu. It's really too bad that many people actually believe that Islam is about hatred. 

[Keranu]

It's not a ruleset, it's not a religion.

Try telling that to people who call themselves atheists and congregate with fellow atheists and are confrontational to people who don't identify themselves by the same title... -or people with various learned beliefs who label those of us who don't practice any standardized beliefs/religion/etc as such.

I can't agree with that enough. I have no problem with atheists, but there are plenty I've seen and talked to who have treated their view as a dogmatic belief making them no better than a religious person enforcing his views on people. Heck just look them up YouTube!

[Keranu]

Well said Keranu. It's really too bad that many people actually believe that Islam is about hatred. 

I don't really think any religion is about hatred and a lack of religion certainly isn't about hatred because it has nothing to be based on  .

[OldRover]

There's always going to be someone who fucks up a religion, or the view of what the religion was intended to be. This also applies to atheism.

[Keranu]

In other words, there is always the dipshit who presses the big red button .

[Ceti Alpha]

Red Shiny button?! Must....press........the big.......red......shiny..........button.....

[TR0N]

Red Shiny button?! Must....press........the big.......red......shiny..........button.....

Ya mean this person 

Afther all bush is fooled since he thinks god is on his side.

[Kitsunexus]

Or saying that the SNES was a good system if you ignore all the horrible, shit games for retards.

The difference between my trolling and your trolling is that I'm sometimes funny. Oh and I use pictures. But sometimes it's funny.

[Hobo Xiphas]

The difference between my trolling and your trolling is that I'm sometimes funny. Oh and I use pictures. But sometimes it's funny.

No

GUTS is funny, read his site okay

[Joe Redifer]

Keranu, what is with covering women up and growing a beard?  Doesn't the Quran/Koran/Dual Core insist that women serve man?  How about aliens?  I think Christianity insists we are the only ones in the universe.  Also, why are there different sects of Muslims (Sunnies, Shitties, and something else).  Which one isn't the one going to hell?  Is hell fun?

[Hobo Xiphas]

Islamic hell is more like Christian purgatory so it is a cool place to kick back and chat it up with Ted Kaczynski before God forgives you

The branches of Islam are kinda like the branches of Christianity in that one thinks the Roman pope is totally cool and the other thinks Avignon pope could kick his ass in Parcheesi anyday of the week including the Sabbath

The other stuff is stupid stuff that humans made up for some reason, I think, but I am a Jedi what do I know about things other than the Force

[ParanoiaDragon]

The Bible doesn't say there are no aliens.  So, it's always possible that there are indeed aliens.  Me personally, I just don't think there are, but I could be wrong.

[Kitsunexus]

Islamic hell is more like Christian purgatory so it is a cool place to kick back and chat it up with Ted Kaczynski before God forgives you

Screw that. Ted forgives God. UNABOMBER PWNZ ALL!

[Hobo Xiphas]

The Bible doesn't say there are no aliens.  So, it's always possible that there are indeed aliens.  Me personally, I just don't think there are, but I could be wrong.

The Fermi Paradox vs The Mediocrity Principle

You can't give it up! Triumph or die!

Personally, I think the Fermi Paradox wins in the long run, but I am biased since I think Enrico Fermi was pretty rad. 

EDIT: Ironically, I think I might actually be attending a nerd lecture on this at the Science & Industry Museum tomorrow!

[Kitsunexus]

You can't give it up! Triumph or die!

Go for broke! Play it straight!

[ParanoiaDragon]

Seems like most of what Keranu said, I share the same feelings & beliefs(oviously not all, since there's some different specific beliefs that differ from Muslim's to Christians).

Someone on here(was it Joe) mentioned that they see religion phasing out over the next few hundred years.  I actually believe it'll be alot sooner then that.  I believe that really soon the nations of the world, will be thru with religion, & will abolish the worlds religions.  Infact, I believe it may be the United Nations itself that will accomplish this.  In Revelation it talks about Babylon the Great(false religion that is commiting adultery with the nations of the world), a harlot who is adorned with purple & scarlet, & jewels, etc., she's riding a scarlet colored beast that "was, but is not, & yet will be present"(League of Nations, which failed, & was then replaced by the United Nations).  

I believe this beast, will turn on religion, because of the all the problems that religions in general have caused the world.  There's no getting around the fact that most wars, etc. have been in the name of religion, & the UN, is going to put a stop to that.  And I believe this will happen in my lifetime, maybe the next 20 years, maybe 30, maybe less.  It could happen in a few months for all I know.  If I'm an old man, & it still hasn't happened, sure, I'll think that's strange, but that means I was wrong about when I believe this would happen.  And all of this will lead up to Armageddon, of which, "Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father. Keep looking, keep awake, for YOU do not know when the appointed time is. It is like a man traveling abroad that left his house and gave the authority to his slaves, to each one his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to keep on the watch. Therefore keep on the watch, for YOU do not know when the master of the house is coming, whether late in the day or at midnight or at cockcrowing or early in the morning; in order that when he arrives suddenly, he does not find YOU sleeping. But what I say to YOU I say to all, Keep on the watch."

[Keranu]

Keranu, what is with covering women up and growing a beard?

From the sound of this sentence, it sounds like you are saying women grow bears! The hijab (veil, meaning "to cover") is used for women to cover their modesty so perverts don't go peeking at their goodies, it's mentioned in both the Quran and hadiths. The growing of the beard, however, is only mentioned in the Hadiths, which a few Muslims don't even follow.

Doesn't the Quran/Koran/Dual Core insist that women serve man?  How about aliens?  I think Christianity insists we are the only ones in the universe.

No the Quran doesn't insist that women should boil men some sausages when ever he's in the mood. God's creation isn't limited to just Earth and there is Quranic evidence that there are aliens and there is even a commentary of a verse from one of the prophet's companions that states that there are planets like Earth that even contain prophets like the ones here; read more here. I should also comment that we aren't limited to the idea that Earth is only 9,000 or however years old that some Christians claim.

Also, why are there different sects of Muslims (Sunnies, Shitties, and something else).  Which one isn't the one going to hell?  Is hell fun?

Derrek Lee summed it up really well! Basically just replace the popes with Abu Bakr and Ali and that's where the Sunnie/Shiite clash came from. Only god can say who goes to hell. And as Derek Lee stated, hell might be a good place to meet some cool evil dudes.

[Hobo Xiphas]

Infact, I believe it may be the United Nations itself that will accomplish this.

I'm sorry, but...

MU-HU-HU-HU-HU-HU-HU-HU-HAHAHAHAHA

Seriously, the United Nations?  Leading to the abolition of religion?  The same United Nations that can't influence anything in the world?  Mankind has had religion for its entire history, but in 20 years, thanks to the United Nations, it is going to disappear?  Yeah, sure.  And Sega is going to release the missing Shining Force III scenarios for the Saturn in English, too!

[ParanoiaDragon]

Yeah, I believe the earth could be millions of years old.  In Genesis, the 6 creative days don't start until after the heavens & the earth were created.  And I believe in dinosaurs!  I think it's wierd, when other Christians think I'm wierd for believing dinosaurs existed!

BTW, you didn't hear the latest?  Sega is releasing the other scenarios via the Wii's VC!  Seriously though, that's what I believe.  If I end up being wrong, oh well, I'm imperfect.

[Keranu]

Yeah, I believe the earth could be millions of years old.  In Genesis, the 6 creative days don't start until after the heavens & the earth were created.  And I believe in dinosaurs!  I think it's wierd, when other Christians think I'm wierd for believing dinosaurs existed!

I didn't know there were Christians that flat out disbelieved in dinosaurs. I've heard some say that they believe dinosaurs and humans co-existed.

[ParanoiaDragon]

Yeah, I've run into some.  It's really strange.  I've also run into some that believe that dinosaurs were made by humans, because back then, humans were smarter.

[Hobo Xiphas]

BTW, you didn't hear the latest?  Sega is releasing the other scenarios via the Wii's VC!  Seriously though, that's what I believe.  If I end up being wrong, oh well, I'm imperfect.

Now I know it is like for Christians relating to Jesus' return, the extreme disappointment in not getting what you want so badly.

Thanks for teasing me, mister meanhead. 

[ParanoiaDragon]

Actually, I believe the so called 2nd coming has already happened, but I believe that his presence is totally different then what other Christians believe.  And as for if I end up being wrong, I'm realistic, since we as humans, continue to study & learn, & sometimes what we believe, can be off.  To err is human.

[Ceti Alpha]

What about Anne Coulter's latest comments about Jews? She basically said that Jews should convert to Christianity so they can go to heaven. "Christianity is the 'fast track' to perfection."

She is a monster, to be sure. However, as an atheist I find her comments actually quite funny. If you're going to take the Abrahamic religions as "G-d's" word then she's essentially right. 

I cant believe I just sorta agreed with Anne Coulter. Sorta...kinda....barely....not really.

[Kitsunexus]

What about Anne Coulter's latest comments about Jews?

Anne Coulter is proof of evolution. If you look clearly at her throat, you'll see she evolved from a man.

[rag-time4]

What about Anne Coulter's latest comments about Jews? She basically said that Jews should convert to Christianity so they can go to heaven. "Christianity is the 'fast track' to perfection."

She is a monster, to be sure. However, as an atheist I find her comments actually quite funny. If you're going to take the Abrahamic religions as "G-d's" word then she's essentially right. 

I cant believe I just sorta agreed with Anne Coulter. Sorta...kinda....barely....not really.

Interesting video!

One problem with her statement is that many Christians do not practice God's laws as revealed in the Old Testament.

For example, the eating of swine/pig, as an easy one.

This point wasn't made clear in the video, because the "Jewish" interviewer was upset with the idea that Jews need "perfecting," but I suspect that Anne Coulter and many Christians of her persuasion have discarded the laws of God and believe that by faith in Jesus that they are guaranteed a "fast track to heaven," which is some place that they will go after they die.

I agree with Coulter's statement that Jews (and everybody else) need to strive for perfection, but as a Muslim I see Jesus more as an example of perfection than "a fast track program."

Jesus, I believe, taught us to "follow him" as an example. When he told his followers to "take his cross," he meant that we all have our own cross -- and I don't believe he was talking about a necklace.

[rag-time4]

Actually, I believe the so called 2nd coming has already happened, but I believe that his presence is totally different then what other Christians believe.  And as for if I end up being wrong, I'm realistic, since we as humans, continue to study & learn, & sometimes what we believe, can be off.  To err is human.

May I ask when it happened, according to your belief?

[rag-time4]

Well said Keranu. It's really too bad that many people actually believe that Islam is about hatred. 

I don't really think any religion is about hatred and a lack of religion certainly isn't about hatred because it has nothing to be based on  .

Keranu, what if it's based on hatred of religion?

[rag-time4]

From the sound of this sentence, it sounds like you are saying women grow bears! The hijab (veil, meaning "to cover") is used for women to cover their modesty so perverts don't go peeking at their goodies, it's mentioned in both the Quran and hadiths. The growing of the beard, however, is only mentioned in the Hadiths, which a few Muslims don't even follow.

In the Nation of Islam, men are taught against growing beards. I believe the reason is to present an image of cleanliness and self respect, and also as a practice of discipline, among other reasons (of which I'm not aware)

The hijab is interpreted differently in different countries. In some countries, which are allies of the U.S., such as Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, a full facial veil is often ideal. In other Muslim societies, such as the Nation of Islam, the face may be uncovered but the hair must still be covered.

I agree with Keranu's explanation as to the reason for the hijab, but to add to it, a higher purpose is to help create a culture where men and women are constantly reminded to interact with one another not based on "lower desires" (natural sexual attraction, etc) but to interact with one another based on "higher desires" (interaction involving thinking)

No the Quran doesn't insist that women should boil men some sausages when ever he's in the mood. God's creation isn't limited to just Earth and there is Quranic evidence that there are aliens and there is even a commentary of a verse from one of the prophet's companions that states that there are planets like Earth that even contain prophets like the ones here; read more here. I should also comment that we aren't limited to the idea that Earth is only 9,000 or however years old that some Christians claim.

I believe that women were created to be subordinate to men, and men are created to be subordinate to God. When men stray from (or are taken from) the right path, then the order will be disrupted.

Some of the "flying saucer" phenomenon has been mentioned in the Bible, in the book of Ezekiel. It's sometimes referred to as "Ezekiel's wheel" or "the wheel of Ezekiel."

The Honorable Elijah Muhammad refers to it as the "mother plane" and that it will be used as an instrument of divine judgement against America. 

Also, why are there different sects of Muslims (Sunnies, Shitties, and something else).  Which one isn't the one going to hell?  Is hell fun?

The one that isn't the one going to hell is the one that accepts Allah and His Messenger, and does good.

As for hell being fun, that's an interesting question, but first we'd have to define hell.

Some believe that hell is someplace that some people have to go after they die where they will be burned for eternity. The Honorable Elijah Muhammad teaches us that the fire must not be very hot, if we can burn forever and never burn up.

I believe that hell is a state of being in which the people do not submit to Allah's instructions - which are in our best interest to submit to since Allah is Good and since Allah is the Greatest Knower. He wouldn't instruct us to do something that is not Good.

However, people that rebel against God's instructions may have a lot of "fun" doing so. For example, there are many people who engage in premarital sex and the use of intoxicants, possibly at the same time. It might be "fun" for them, but I believe, it is not "Good" for them. These people are really in hell, because they are not doing Good for themselves.

Satan uses "fun" to distract people and take people away from just submitting to God and doing Good.

So I think that hell can be "fun," but I also believe that hell can never be Good. What's "fun" certainly isn't always Good.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

From the sound of this sentence, it sounds like you are saying women grow bears!

I demand explanation!  How do women grow bears?  Are they grizzlys, browns, polars?

I agree with Keranu's explanation as to the reason for the hijab, but to add to it, a higher purpose is to help create a culture where men and women are constantly reminded to interact with one another not based on "lower desires" (natural sexual attraction, etc) but to interact with one another based on "higher desires" (interaction involving thinking)

So, men must be too weak willed to control their thoughts and actions while in the presence of women, eh?  Methinks it's called subjugation, nothing more and nothing less, and I'm not interested in anyone that wants to force another human to submit to their will, unless I'm wearing a leather zipper mask and paying her by the hour.

[rag-time4]

So, men must be too weak willed to control their thoughts and actions while in the presence of women, eh?  Methinks it's called subjugation, nothing more and nothing less, and I'm not interested in anyone that wants to force another human to submit to their will, unless I'm wearing a leather zipper mask and paying her by the hour.

Many men are too weak willed to control their thoughts and actions, particularly with regards to chasing women.  But like I said, even more than taking care of weak-willed men, it's about creating a cultural environment where women can be respected and protected.

Keep in mind that their are rules and regulations for the way Muslim men dress too, not just women.

[Keranu]

Well said Keranu. It's really too bad that many people actually believe that Islam is about hatred. 

I don't really think any religion is about hatred and a lack of religion certainly isn't about hatred because it has nothing to be based on  .

Keranu, what if it's based on hatred of religion?

Not sure what you're talking about exactly.

In the Nation of Islam, men are taught against growing beards. I believe the reason is to present an image of cleanliness and self respect, and also as a practice of discipline, among other reasons (of which I'm not aware)

So that's why Elijah Muhammad and Louis Farrakhan don't have beards ! I guess that's why Malcolm X didn't have one too before he became El-Hajj Malik al-Shabazz. Thanks for sharing that information. Could you explain more how it's self respect and a practice of discipline?

The hijab is interpreted differently in different countries. In some countries, which are allies of the U.S., such as Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, a full facial veil is often ideal. In other Muslim societies, such as the Nation of Islam, the face may be uncovered but the hair must still be covered.

I'm not an expert on the subject, but I don't quite understand where the burka (full face covering) idea came from. The Quran nor the Hadiths say the face has to be covered, as far as I know.

Some of the "flying saucer" phenomenon has been mentioned in the Bible, in the book of Ezekiel. It's sometimes referred to as "Ezekiel's wheel" or "the wheel of Ezekiel."

The Honorable Elijah Muhammad refers to it as the "mother plane" and that it will be used as an instrument of divine judgement against America.

I'm aware of Ezekiel's wheel and I've briefly heard about the "mother plane". Was this the same ship that Farrakhan claimed to flew in one of his dreams (or was it in actual reality)?

Some believe that hell is someplace that some people have to go after they die where they will be burned for eternity. The Honorable Elijah Muhammad teaches us that the fire must not be very hot, if we can burn forever and never burn up.

Surah 4 verse 56 in the Quran mentions that our skin burns up and is replaced so it can burn again:

"Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses – We will drive them into a Fire.  Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment.  Indeed, God is ever Exalted in Might and Wise."

However, people that rebel against God's instructions may have a lot of "fun" doing so. For example, there are many people who engage in premarital sex and the use of intoxicants, possibly at the same time. It might be "fun" for them, but I believe, it is not "Good" for them. These people are really in hell, because they are not doing Good for themselves.

Satan uses "fun" to distract people and take people away from just submitting to God and doing Good.

So I think that hell can be "fun," but I also believe that hell can never be Good. What's "fun" certainly isn't always Good.

I'm not exactly sure where this is from, but it's said that this life is like heaven for the unbelievers and hell for the believers while the afterlife is the opposite.

I demand explanation!  How do women grow bears?  Are they grizzlys, browns, polars?

Steroids maybe?

So, men must be too weak willed to control their thoughts and actions while in the presence of women, eh?  Methinks it's called subjugation, nothing more and nothing less, and I'm not interested in anyone that wants to force another human to submit to their will, unless I'm wearing a leather zipper mask and paying her by the hour.

We are told several times in the Quran and Hadith to lower our gaze from the opposite sex after the first accidental peek, unless of course it's someone you are talking to. Controling yourself would certainly come first I'd say, but the dress code simply makes things easier. I think it's also interesting to note that most converts to Islam are females and I've heard of female-to-male ratios being as high as 9:1.

[OldRover]

I find any religious texts about "modesty" or anything referring to the human body or sexuality to be complete hogwash. All of that is a human construct, though I'm not quite sure how it came to be since recorded history is rather sparse on the subject. We are born naked, and exist for only one purpose: to reproduce. That's it. Anything else is superficial nonsense tacked on by human ego. Furthermore, many religions attempt very hard to suppress normal human instinct, especially in regards to sexuality. Sexuality and religion generally don't mix in a normal, natural way, unless you subscribe to something like Levayism, where casual sex is not only permissible but encouraged as a normal human function. We as humans are sexual creatures; it's self-defeating to try to hinder this. But that's what too many religions try to do.

I also wish religious people would drop the ancient dogma about "pigs are unclean". Pigs are very clean and highly intelligent.

[Hobo Xiphas]

I also wish religious people would drop the ancient dogma about "pigs are unclean". Pigs are very clean and highly intelligent.

But they taste awful

I believe that women were created to be subordinate to men, and men are created to be subordinate to God.

You are an idiot

This is why religion is stupid, it leads to idiots kowtowing to obsolete and wrong doctrines

I believe men were created to be subordinate to cyborgs and cyborgs are created to be subordinate to robots

[Joe Redifer]

Why do so many who convert to the country, county and state of Islam change their names to "Muhammad"?  What if everyone who did Jesus' evil bidding changed their name to Jesus?  I feel sorry for the O.G. Muhammad because now when someone calls his name, a million other people answer and in fact they were just calling Muhammad Ali because he is the best Muhammad.

[Hobo Xiphas]

I think Mohammad and Jesus are better names that Dakota and Wyatt, two names I heard today at the museum

People name their kids stupid things these days

[ParanoiaDragon]

Actually, I believe the so called 2nd coming has already happened, but I believe that his presence is totally different then what other Christians believe.  And as for if I end up being wrong, I'm realistic, since we as humans, continue to study & learn, & sometimes what we believe, can be off.  To err is human.

May I ask when it happened, according to your belief?

1914, were not the only religion that has found what we believe to be significant(& figured out something was going down that year, just weren't sure exactly what....until it happened).  I'm terrible at math, so I'd have a hard time showing you how the year 1914 is added up in the scriptures.  And, like I said, our view of what people call the 2nd coming is different.  Alot of people believe that Jesus would litterally be riding on a cloud to earth, but that's being too literal, we believe it's a heavenly presence, & that he is with those serving him, to put it simply, but also that Satan was cast out of heaven that year, & not allowed to return.  Basically, he's now trapped on earth.  Before, he could go basically wherever he pleased in the universe, but, not after 1914.  It's funny, my father in law has this theory, where, when you leave earth, you are no longer surrounded by Satan's presence, so you feel at peace.  In otherwords, when astronaughts go up in space, & feel at peace, he thinks it's because Satan's influence can't reach there  It's an interesting theory.......& maybe it's true, but, it's kind of funny to me.

Oh, & your right, most Christians don't adhere to the laws in the Bible.  For instance, it says don't fornicate, yet, most Christians do it anyways.  But things like not eating pig is different, since that was under the old Mosaic Law, that none of us are bound by.  The 10 commandments, were under the Mosaic Law, but after Christ was sacrificed, we were no longer bound by the 10 Commandments specifically, however, most of the laws still apply, post Mosaic Law.  Like thou shall not murder, honor thy parents, etc.  But things like honor the Sabbath, no longer apply to our lives.  Also, pig's were considered unlcean at the time, because it was probably difficult to cook or clean right, before consumption.  Maybe even because they were hard to bleed?  I don't know much about cooking so, not sure, but I know with blood, God considers it sacred.

Something I was thinking about, is why do people of one religion/belief date or marry people of a different religion/belief?  As I get older, it just doesn't make sense to date outside of people that share your beliefs on life.  When were kids, that's different, since most of us, didn't care as much about what we believed, but as we get older, whatever our stance is on life & how it got here, & why we're here, becomes our life.  Rather then, it being a part of our life, along with hobbies, & such.  Ofcoarse we still our have hobbies, but, I feel that what we believe in general about life, is the most important thing in our lives.  So, why would a Protestant date an Atheist?  A Muslim & a Mormon?  A Jew & a Buhddist?  Even within Christendom or Islam, why would someone of one part of those religions, date someone of another?  Like, why would a Baptist date a Pentacostal?  What's the point?  Sure, there views are similar, but, they're not the same, & to me, that would be frusterating.  

It makes sense to me now that I'm older, why were not supposed to date outside of our religion.  Because it just doesn't make sense.  One thing I can guess, is that these people maybe are just lustful, like we were when we were kids, & were so overjoyed that a girl liked us, despite what her religion was(I can speak, as I dated a drug addict, who didn't care about life, other then getting high & drunk & laid, thanks to her lousy parents, I was just so overjoyed that a girl found me attractive, & wanted actually asked ME out, a rarity, to be sure!).  The only other thing I can think of, is maybe when people of different beliefs get together, that maybe one, or both, don't really entirely believe, what they say they believe or at all.  

2 good examples of how I think it should be, would be my wife & I, & Nod & his wife.  My wife & I have the same beliefs, it's a no brainer, there's no split in how we feel about life.  Same goes for Nod & his wife, they believe in the same beliefs.  It just makes sense for it to be that way.

[PCEngineHell]

I think "mostly" a stronger person would be one able to accept someone with different beliefs and learn to find the strengths in that,as opposed to ruling out everyone of  a certain class or religion except one because of fear of not being able to get along or cope or disagreements. Basically your saying you wouldn't consider dating,marrying outside your religious circle. I am not religious,not at all,but I think it is wrong,and I am sure if God exist,he/she would feel the same that it is wrong for any of you to assume that your religious perspective,point of view is the only right one.

 I mean,come on. I don't remember the Bible saying God said only Baptist,or Jehovah Whiteness,Jews,Catholics,or Pentecostals are correct. I don't remember it stating God took anyones side but the one preached in that book,the basic good God fearing/having faith in God/Christ good Christian one. All of you in your basic beliefs are either going to be right,or all of you are going to be fatally wrong,because the common values you cherish are the ones all coming from the same book. You all are in the same boat in the end,at least until one of your religious sects/groups,ect finds a way to time travel and re-wright the Bible to state that only one of your groups is right.

[Keranu]

Why do so many who convert to the country, county and state of Islam change their names to "Muhammad"?  What if everyone who did Jesus' evil bidding changed their name to Jesus?  I feel sorry for the O.G. Muhammad because now when someone calls his name, a million other people answer and in fact they were just calling Muhammad Ali because he is the best Muhammad.

Actually it seems to me that a lot of people change their name to "Yusuf" (Joseph).

[ParanoiaDragon]

But even between different Christian religions, there's things that divide, like, we don't believe in hellfire or going to heaven(other then a very select few).  So, if I ended up marrying someone who does believe in that, we have totally different views on what happens to us when we die.  It just doesn't even remotely make sense to me, to have the most important thing in your life, be wrong in the eyes of the one you love.

And ofcoarse, the Bible does say "you are my witnesses", but, that's not saying, "hey, Jehovah's Witnesses are right, just because they decided to take a name that blah blah blah".  But every person, should believe that what there own religion teaches is right.  It doesn't make sense, to think that "everybody's right"......unless your'e a Unitarian maybe   And if the Bible did say what particular religion was right, then everybody would be joining the bandwagon of that religion.  It's doing God's will, doing(or not doing) all the things that are asked of a person, that makes whatever religion right or wrong.  There are alot of religions that are doing good things, but, does that mean they are doing exactly what God told them to do.  Mathew 5:21-23 says "Not everyone saying to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?' And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness."

And before that, at Mathew 24: 15-20 it warns about there being false prophets "Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep's covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men]."

I can only figure there being one truth, that God pushes along & helps, whatever religion that may be.  And why would God want a bunch of people that are off on their beliefs(especially, if He, not any human, but He deems them wicked), to be in the same boat, as whoever is right, & doing exactly what God asks of them?  Doesn't God want us to know the truth?  Or does he want people that have the semi truth, or, the false, or the completely ridiculously false, or the kind of in the right direction, etc. 

However, that's not to say there will not be ones that don't have the truth, that won't survive Armageddon, there very well might be, but that's up to God, & no one else, cuz no man can judge another(though, we as humans, always tend to judge others, it's a hard habit to fight).  However, if there are people, who have heard whatever the truth is, & denied it, why would God save them?  If I'm wrong about my beliefs, & there's some other religion, that is the truth, & I ignore it, it's like I spit in God's face!  Kind of like the Pharisees, who knew that Jesus was God's son, but instead of embracing his teachings, they plotted to have him killed!

And as for marriage in general, there's enough problems in marriages these days, with people freaking out & leaving their wives(as one of my best friends that I grew up with is doing), drowning there kids, getting pissed off about how much was spent on whatever, getting sick of the husband watching "the game" all the time & not spending any time with them, etc.  Why add the stress of disagreeing about how the earth came to be, if we're reincarnated or not, if we evolved or not, if Adam & Eve are real or not.  Those are important issues, that a couple should agree upon!

[rag-time4]

Not sure what you're talking about exactly.

I'm talking about someone's lack of religion being based on hatred for all religions.

So that's why Elijah Muhammad and Louis Farrakhan don't have beards ! I guess that's why Malcolm X didn't have one too before he became El-Hajj Malik al-Shabazz. Thanks for sharing that information. Could you explain more how it's self respect and a practice of discipline?

Daily shaving could be seen as self respect and a practice of discipline if interpreted as an act of self-maintenance. It's not that anyone with a beard is necessarily unclean by any means, but rather I see daily shaving as a ritual that helps practicioners cultivate self love and self respect, which we believe has been gravely lacking in the black community in particular and in the human community in general.

I'm aware of Ezekiel's wheel and I've briefly heard about the "mother plane". Was this the same ship that Farrakhan claimed to flew in one of his dreams (or was it in actual reality)?

Yes, it's one and the same.

Surah 4 verse 56 in the Quran mentions that our skin burns up and is replaced so it can burn again:

"Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses – We will drive them into a Fire.  Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment.  Indeed, God is ever Exalted in Might and Wise."

Thank you for pointing out that verse/ayaa Keranu! Verse 57 also mentions the "pure companions" waiting for martyrs in heaven that I've heard so much about in the media.

The big difference, on this subject, between the Nation of Islam theology and other interpretations of the Qur'An has to do with the idea of whether Heaven and Hell are places people go after they physically die.

The Qur'An hints at the idea of people who are physically alive, but who are mentally and spiritually dead, such as in Qur'An 35:22 and 6:122.

Most, if not all, disagreements I have seen from Muslims and Christians is different interpretations of symbolic vs literal language in the Bible and Qur'An.

I'm not exactly sure where this is from, but it's said that this life is like heaven for the unbelievers and hell for the believers while the afterlife is the opposite.

Right! I agree completely! I think that where we would disagree is on whether the "afterlife" is something that happens after we physically die or while we are physically alive.

[rag-time4]

Why do so many who convert to the country, county and state of Islam change their names to "Muhammad"?  What if everyone who did Jesus' evil bidding changed their name to Jesus?  I feel sorry for the O.G. Muhammad because now when someone calls his name, a million other people answer and in fact they were just calling Muhammad Ali because he is the best Muhammad.

"Muhammad" means in Arabic something like "worthy of praise," at least according to Elijah Muhammad. I believe the Arabic names used by Muslims all have meaning other than just being an empty name with no deeper meaning.

[MotoRoaderMike]

I'm a Christian and proud to be.

[OldRover]

I'm a Christian and proud to be.

Hrm...having pride in religion is almost like having pride in race. Both are pointless and really serve no purpose. Pride is good in and of itself, especially when warranted, but pride in religious beliefs leads to intolerance, which is a major contributing factor to holy wars and hatred between religions. Be proud of what you've accomplished in your life, be proud of the life you've made for yourself, be proud of how happy you are and how happy you make others, but ditch pride in the dogma you follow. It's meaningless and self-defeating.

PD made an interesting point...marrying someone of a different faith is generally not a very good idea. Sure, there are strong people out there who can accept most people the way they are (I know I can, though I am still initially distrustful of Christians), but the vast majority of people are rather weak-minded and need religion to "fit in", to give them a set of "life rules" because they can't come up with any on their own. Getting hooked up with someone who shares your beliefs frees you from the burden of changing your own comfortable system, or trying to change theirs. It also reinforces what I've been saying for many years...opposites do NOT attract, as we are humans, not magnets.

[Keranu]

Daily shaving could be seen as self respect and a practice of discipline if interpreted as an act of self-maintenance. It's not that anyone with a beard is necessarily unclean by any means, but rather I see daily shaving as a ritual that helps practicioners cultivate self love and self respect, which we believe has been gravely lacking in the black community in particular and in the human community in general.

Ahh, I gotcha.

The big difference, on this subject, between the Nation of Islam theology and other interpretations of the Qur'An has to do with the idea of whether Heaven and Hell are places people go after they physically die.

The Qur'An hints at the idea of people who are physically alive, but who are mentally and physically dead, such as in Qur'An 35:22 and 6:122.

That's interesting, I'll have to read more into that.

"Muhammad" means in Arabic something like "worthy of praise," at least according to Elijah Muhammad. I believe the Arabic names used by Muslims all have meaning other than just being an empty name with no deeper meaning.

I think I've read "Muhammad" translating to "the chosen one", but I might be confused with something else. Ahmed Deedat has a really interesting book and speech about Muhammad (saw) in the Bible and being the natural successor to Jesus/Isa (saw). Yusuf Ali's Quranic commentary also talks about this.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Many men are too weak willed to control their thoughts and actions, particularly with regards to chasing women.  But like I said, even more than taking care of weak-willed men, it's about creating a cultural environment where women can be respected and protected.

Keep in mind that their are rules and regulations for the way Muslim men dress too, not just women.

We are told several times in the Quran and Hadith to lower our gaze from the opposite sex after the first accidental peek, unless of course it's someone you are talking to. Controling yourself would certainly come first I'd say, but the dress code simply makes things easier. I think it's also interesting to note that most converts to Islam are females and I've heard of female-to-male ratios being as high as 9:1.

Sounds like horse shit to me.  Men are not beasts that need such a crutch to keep from ravaging women on sight.

I'm a Christian and proud to be.

Hrm...having pride in religion is almost like having pride in race. Both are pointless and really serve no purpose. Pride is good in and of itself, especially when warranted, but pride in religious beliefs leads to intolerance, which is a major contributing factor to holy wars and hatred between religions. Be proud of what you've accomplished in your life, be proud of the life you've made for yourself, be proud of how happy you are and how happy you make others, but ditch pride in the dogma you follow. It's meaningless and self-defeating.

You're born with your race, but you choose a religion, so having pride in one is not akin to having pride in the other.  To be a Christian means to live a Christian lifestyle, which involves forgiveness, generosity, renunciation of violence, marital fidelity, and helping your fellow man.  I can't see anything wrong with having pride in those qualities.

[TR0N]

I'm a Christian and proud to be.

To quote the church lady well isn't that special !