Religion

[Keranu]

Many men are too weak willed to control their thoughts and actions, particularly with regards to chasing women.  But like I said, even more than taking care of weak-willed men, it's about creating a cultural environment where women can be respected and protected.

Keep in mind that their are rules and regulations for the way Muslim men dress too, not just women.

We are told several times in the Quran and Hadith to lower our gaze from the opposite sex after the first accidental peek, unless of course it's someone you are talking to. Controling yourself would certainly come first I'd say, but the dress code simply makes things easier. I think it's also interesting to note that most converts to Islam are females and I've heard of female-to-male ratios being as high as 9:1.

Sounds like horse shit to me.  Men are not beasts that need such a crutch to keep from ravaging women on sight.

As already mentioned, the dress code isn't just applied to women and both sexes are advised to lower gazes and control themselves. Also from what I understand, the hijab actually originates in Judaism somehow, but I don't know much about the details.

[Hobo Xiphas]

Since less than one percent of Americans follow this wacky dress code how do you avoid running into telephone poles in public since you always have to keep looking down at your feet 

[Turbo D]

I just found out that the bible says that it is a sin to be lazy  . So, does this mean its a sin to be lazy on your day off? Or do they mean like if you're a bum or something? 

[Keranu]

Since less than one percent of Americans follow this wacky dress code how do you avoid running into telephone poles in public since you always have to keep looking down at your feet 

Cybernetic eye surgery.

[OldRover]

You're born with your race, but you choose a religion, so having pride in one is not akin to having pride in the other.  To be a Christian means to live a Christian lifestyle, which involves forgiveness, generosity, renunciation of violence, marital fidelity, and helping your fellow man.  I can't see anything wrong with having pride in those qualities.

Most religious people are indoctrinated into their religion, so it's not so simple as making a choice. Only one of strong mind can choose their religion. Because of that, you could realistically say that one is also born with their religion. And what you mention of the Christian lifestyle (which I've yet to see one actually do what you describe on a regular basis in real life, it's usually just the opposite...unforgiving, rude, obnoxious, violent, self-important pigs...but then again, people are generally this way regardless of their religion) is the same in virtually all religions.

[ParanoiaDragon]

Ok, now I'm going to put you on the spot, since you know me(though you also know ones like DevX, so I can understand your feelings on the matter), am I an "unforgiving, rude, obnoxious, violent, self-important pig"?  If I am, I'll deffinitly work on that, I'm always trying to work on my attitude among other things.  It's important to me to keep trying to follow Christ's example of not being like the above.  I know I can't be perfect, but that's no excuse for me to not keep trying to improve.

[Ceti Alpha]

You're born with your race, but you choose a religion

What about Judaism? Race or religion?

Hint: Trick question. There's no such thing as race. 

[Hobo Xiphas]

Cybernetic eye surgery.

Man, if Islam is all about the cybernetics I might have to convert! 

Do you get cool cybernetics like wired reflexes and cyberskates?

[OldRover]

Ok, now I'm going to put you on the spot, since you know me(though you also know ones like DevX, so I can understand your feelings on the matter), am I an "unforgiving, rude, obnoxious, violent, self-important pig"?  If I am, I'll deffinitly work on that, I'm always trying to work on my attitude among other things.  It's important to me to keep trying to follow Christ's example of not being like the above.  I know I can't be perfect, but that's no excuse for me to not keep trying to improve.

I don't know you in real life, only online, so I can't comment on that. If you are trying to follow Christ's example, then you wouldn't likely be any of the above, as according to the book, he wasn't like that at all. It seems that the vast majority of Christians don't even know the MEANING of "Christian"..."Christ-like". Seems like you know what it means to be Christian, unlike most. But of course, you don't need to be Christ-like to note your own shortcomings and try to work on them for the better.

Unfortunately, DevX doesn't need to be known in real life for said problems to be very well known. On a related note, take a look at this thread on Pixelation:

http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=328.0

Virtually ALL of the "goblins" mentioned in this thread applied to DevX.

[ParanoiaDragon]

I'll except that answer   Reminds me of something I heard about Gandhi saying that if all Christians would live by Jesus teachings from the sermon on the mount, that the problems of the world would be solved.  I don't know about all problems being solved, but this world would sure be alot better if most Christians acted like they claim to.

[CrackTiger]

I'll except that answer   Reminds me of something I heard about Gandhi saying that if all Christians would live by Jesus teachings from the sermon on the mount, that the problems of the world would be solved.  I don't know about all problems being solved, but this world would sure be alot better if most Christians acted like they claim to.

I like how many ignorant self proclaimed Christians(not to be confused with all the rest) like to use phrases like "its the Christian thing to do" when talking about doing something they think is good or "right", when its actually either un-Christian or not a very good thing at all.

[OldRover]

Oh man, don't even get me started on how most modern-day Christians act! Here in Puerto Rico, a VERY Christian island, you would expect the vast majority of people to be decent, right? Nothing could be further from the truth. People here are generally deceitful, hate-filled bigots who would rather spit on you if you don't fit into their narrow vision of "faith". They're some of the worst drivers I've ever encountered as well, and let's not forget that Puerto Rico has the sixth highest murder rate in the world. Christ-like? Not in your life. They blame poverty and government corruption for the terrible society, and when that falls apart, they blame decadence. Excuses, excuses, excuses...

[Kitsunexus]

Somebody Photoshop Jesus Christ on a dollar and that's modern day Christianity for you.

[Joe Redifer]

Ha ha no kidding, especially when you get into the evangelical territory.  I can't believe people listen to the TV evangelists.  Yes they are entertaining because you can point and laugh at them, but some people actually believe in what they are saying/doing.

[PCEngineHell]

Oh man, don't even get me started on how most modern-day Christians act! Here in Puerto Rico, a VERY Christian island, you would expect the vast majority of people to be decent, right? Nothing could be further from the truth. People here are generally deceitful, hate-filled bigots who would rather spit on you if you don't fit into their narrow vision of "faith". They're some of the worst drivers I've ever encountered as well, and let's not forget that Puerto Rico has the sixth highest murder rate in the world. Christ-like? Not in your life. They blame poverty and government corruption for the terrible society, and when that falls apart, they blame decadence. Excuses, excuses, excuses...

Lets not forget they also toss hundreds of pets from a bridge for the sake of "pest control" on your wonderful quaint little island of the damned...awesome stuff for sure.

[OldRover]

Lets not forget they also toss hundreds of pets from a bridge for the sake of "pest control" on your wonderful quaint little island of the damned...awesome stuff for sure.

Wow, I can't believe that story actually made it to the mainland...it's pretty sick, isn't it?

[PCEngineHell]

Yea I was pretty horrified over that. Only a few of the animals survived,with broken limbs and crap. If they can get away with it,I wont be surprised if some animal rights groups protest there. Wont be surprised if they jump all over that before long at all,at least media wise.

[PCEngineHell]

You know if you think about it next they will prob toss their homeless from a bridge for the sake of controlling poverty there.

[ParanoiaDragon]

You know if you think about it next they will prob toss their homeless from a bridge for the sake of controlling poverty there.

"So, if you become Mayor, what are your plans for pest control?"

"Well, I think we should gather them all up, put them in a large canister, & dump them in the sea!"

"And what are your plans for the homeless?"

"Well, I think we should gather them all up, put them in a large canister, & dump them in the sea!"

Anyways, what's this about pets being dumped in the sea?  I missed hearing about that, was it pretty recent?

[nat]

Lets not forget they also toss hundreds of pets from a bridge for the sake of "pest control" on your wonderful quaint little island of the damned...awesome stuff for sure.

Wow, I can't believe that story actually made it to the mainland...it's pretty sick, isn't it?

That's absolutely the most horrible thing I've ever heard in my entire life. I'm literally sick to my stomach after reading that. If I drove over a bridge and saw someone doing that, I would get out of my car, beat the shit out of them and then throw them over the side of the bridge.

[Nazi NecroPhile]

Most religious people are indoctrinated into their religion, so it's not so simple as making a choice. Only one of strong mind can choose their religion. Because of that, you could realistically say that one is also born with their religion. And what you mention of the Christian lifestyle (which I've yet to see one actually do what you describe on a regular basis in real life, it's usually just the opposite...unforgiving, rude, obnoxious, violent, self-important pigs...but then again, people are generally this way regardless of their religion) is the same in virtually all religions.

You have a point, but at some point people make a decision whether or not they continue to remain religious, though admittedly few will venture beyond the religion with which they were raised.  Your view of mankind is rather sad and narrow.  I can't speak for those in Puerto Rico, but there are plenty of people here that are more or less good people (Christian and otherwise).  They may not be perfect (who is?), but they're doing more good than evil.  Undoubtedly, there are people that are just giving Christianity lip service, but that doesn't mean that it is universal.

You're born with your race, but you choose a religion

What about Judaism? Race or religion?

Hint: Trick question. There's no such thing as race. 

race: a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock; a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)

We're all part of the human race, but the definition above is what is commonly used when most people, not anthropologists, speak of race (or ethnicity, if you prefer).  Using this definition, Judaism could be considered both a race and a religion, but that doesn't mean that a member of one group is necessarily a member of the other.  Anyone can convert to Judaism as a religion, regardless of ancestry; a person with Jewish ancestry may or may not be of Jewish faith.

Anyways, what's this about pets being dumped in the sea?  I missed hearing about that, was it pretty recent?

AP Article

It doesn't sound like a government sanctioned disposal method to me.  A private company was paid to humanely remove pets from public housing and the greedy bastards decided to cut a few corners.

[Ceti Alpha]

race: a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock; a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)

So by that definition I could call Canadians a race? We share certain habits, characteristics. What about Newfoundlanders? All those Newfie jokes I've told....I'm a racist?!!!     The Quebecois have just recently been declared a nation, so would they constitute a race? I'm not sure what that definition means by "stock". The point I was trying to make was that there are generally more differences within "stocks" than among.

It's just a word, but "race" seems to be used most often in a negative sense. i.e. "My race is better than yours." That definition of race closely resembles the definition of culture:

Culture' (from the Latin cultura stemming from colere, meaning "to cultivate,") generally refers to patterns of human activity and the symbolic structures that give such activity significant importance. Different definitions of "culture" reflect different theoretical bases for understanding, or criteria for evaluating, human activity.

I would also disagree that Judaism could be considered a race. Jews spread out over Asia, Europe and Africa, and adopted local customs and traditions separate from the others.

I know we're talking about the same thing, but I just feel that the term "race" should be discarded. From my experience if people mean ethnicity, they say "ethnicity", if people mean race, they say "race".

[rag-time4]

Sounds like horse shit to me.  Men are not beasts that need such a crutch to keep from ravaging women on sight.

Necromancer, some of us really are beasts and really do need as much help as possible to control our appetites. If you have greater self control than that, then just by being that way you make the world a better place.

But I don't see the dress codes as being only about providing a crutch for weak willed men and women, but more for creating a culture of modesty, which I think helps prevent men and women from becoming weak willed in the first place.

You're born with your race, but you choose a religion, so having pride in one is not akin to having pride in the other.  To be a Christian means to live a Christian lifestyle, which involves forgiveness, generosity, renunciation of violence, marital fidelity, and helping your fellow man.  I can't see anything wrong with having pride in those qualities.

Is pride among the characteristics of a "Christian lifestyle"?

I think that glorification of God is ideal, not having pride in following God's instructions. Having pride in following God's instructions may hinder us in being willing to reach out and help our fellow man who may not be practicing God's instructions.

[rag-time4]

As already mentioned, the dress code isn't just applied to women and both sexes are advised to lower gazes and control themselves. Also from what I understand, the hijab actually originates in Judaism somehow, but I don't know much about the details.

Keranu, I found something in the New Testament about it, the head covering for women to be specific.

1 Corinthians Chapter 2

The Bible here presents it as a symbol of authority of men over women, which Necromancer spoke out against earlier.

verse 10 : For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.

verse 3: But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

This goes back to what I said earlier about Elijah Muhammad teaching us that women are supposed to be subordinate to men, and men are supposed to be subordinate to God. Here the Bible inserts Christ as an intermediary between man and God, which we accept, since Christ represents a perfect example for us on how to submit to the Will of Allah.

[Joe Redifer]

Which is better, the Bible or the Quran?  Which one is more correct?  Which one is wrong?  They both can't be right.

[rag-time4]

Which is better, the Bible or the Quran?  Which one is more correct?  Which one is wrong?  They both can't be right.

From a Muslim perspective, we put more faith in the Qur'An because it still holds the original Arabic language text.

Also, while it may be true that you can point to various verses in the Bible and Qur'An which seem to contradict each other, it is also true that you can find verses in the Bible and Qur'An that agree with each other.

Muslims are taught in the Qur'An that both the Torah (Teachings through Moses and other Prophets/Old Testament) and the Gospel (Teachings through Jesus/New Testament) were revealed by the same God who revealed the Qur'An.

Qur'An 5:44 (Maulana Muhammad Ali translation): Surely We revealed the Torah, having guidance and light...

Qur'An 5:46 (Maulana Muhammad Ali translation): And We sent after them in their footsteps Jesus, son of Mary, verifying that which was before him of the Torah; and We gave him the Gospel containing guidance and light, and verifying that which was before it of the Torah...

Many disagreements between Jews, Christians, and Muslims come up out of mis-translations, deliberate alterations, and differing interpretations, Elijah Muhammad teaches us. However, I have spent some time talking with a Muslim sister from Egypt who believed that reading the Bible was a total waste of time. Followers of Elijah Muhammad don't share that belief.

The key to both books, really, is interpretation. Both contain a lot of symbolic language that has resulted in many divisions. If you were to take a look at the various schools of thought among just the Muslims, for example, I believe you will find that the differences arise based on interpretations of symbolic language in the Qur'An.

[Ceti Alpha]

Which is better, the Bible or the Quran?

That's another trick question.  Is there a none of the above option?

Since we're quoting the 1st 2nd and 3rd editions of g-d's books I thought it would only be fair to quote some atheists. 

Gene Roddenberry:

"We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes."

"I condemn false prophets, I condemn the effort to take away the power of rational decision, to drain people of their free will--and a hell of a lot of money in the bargain. Religions vary in their degree of idiocy, but I reject them all. For most people, religion is nothing more than a substitute for a malfunctioning brain."

Others:

"Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day; give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish." - Author Unknown

"It may be that our role on this planet is not to worship God, but to create him." - Arthur C. Clarke

"Organized religion: The world's largest pyramid scheme." - Bernard Katz

"One might be asked "How can you prove that a god does not exist?" One can only reply that it is scarcely necessary to disprove what has never been proved." - David A. Spitz

"I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other gods you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts

"The only difference between a cult and a religion is the amount of real estate they own." - Frank Zappa

"It is an interesting and demonstrable fact, that all children are atheists and were religion not inculcated into their minds, they would remain so." - Ernestine Rose

"The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by 'God' one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity." - Carl Sagan ----> I stuck that one in for you Keranu. 

"God made me an atheist. Who are you to question his wisdom?"

"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet." - Napoleon Bonaparte

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca the Younger

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - Carl Sagan

"This is my religion . . . joy and exaltation in my own existence... so go ahead and snarl... bite... howl, you Calvinistic divines and all you who say I am no Christian. I say you are not Christian." - John Adams

"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." - Albert Einstein

"There once was a time when all people believed in God and the church ruled. This time was called the Dark Ages." - Richard Lederer

"If Jesus had been killed 20 years ago, Catholic school children would be wearing little Electric Chairs around their necks instead of crosses" - Lenny Bruce

"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."

"Power corrupts; Absolute power corrupts absolutely; God is all-powerful. Draw your own conclusions."

"Theists think all gods but theirs are false. Atheists simply don't make an exception for the last one."

"If atheism is a religion, then bald is a hair color." - Mark Schnitzius

"Fundamentalism means never having to say 'I'm wrong.'"

"Man created God in his own image."

[Hobo Xiphas]

Seriously, rag-time4, are you a time traveller posting from the 10th Century?  If so, I would like to borrow your time machine as long as it goes backwards in addition to going fowards.



I think Canadians are a race as they have their own distinct culture and everything!  I wish I was a member of the Canadian race sometimes, but alas, as some people has said you can't change your race, oh well.  I'm just glad I'm not a member of the Nebraska race. 



The bestest holy book in the Abrahamic tradition is the Book of Mormon as it takes place in America, hell yeah!



If our society seems more nihilistic than that of previous eras, perhaps this is simply a sign of our maturity as a sentient species. As our collective consciousness expands beyond a crucial point, we are at last ready to accept life's fundamental truth: that life's only purpose is life itself.

Chairman Sheng-ji Yang
"Looking God in the Eye"

[rag-time4]

"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet." - Napoleon Bonaparte

This is one that I really used to believe in. As Karl Marx said, "religion is the opiate of the masses."

When I started listening to Malcolm X, and even Martin Luther King, Jr., I found this one to be disproven.

Religion can be useful in keeping the masses quiet, but it can also be useful in motivating people to speak up.

To be fair, Napoleon and Marx never had the chance to hear Louis Farrakhan speak 

[ParanoiaDragon]

Ofcoarse, out of all those quotes, the first one is obvious.  From my understanding of the Bible, humans weren't created faulty, as they were perfect, but granted free will.  They used this free will(along with Satan's influence) to disobey a simple commandment, not to eat the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden.  They sinned of their own free will, sin came from Adam, & thus sin entered into the world.  Satan also was perfect, but with his free will, decided that he wanted people to worship him, instead of God.  And, after scheming, he went down as a serpent, & spoke to Eve, etc.

If Adam & Eve hadn't sinned, they'd still be on the earth, perfect, living forever in a paradise.  Heck, if atleast Adam had chose to love God, more then his wife, & not sinned with her, Eve would've died for her sin, but Adam would've eventually gotten another wife, because he remained faithful, & would still be on this earth(this might be where the idea of Adam having 2 wives, 1 bad, 1 good, came from).  But, there's a time coming, when the wicked are wiped from the earth, & it will become a paradise, & most faithful humans will live in this paradise forever on earth(144,000 will be up in heaven with Christ reigning as king's & priests).  Plus, I figure, we'll eventually start venturing to other planets as well, but that's more of a personal theory.

[PCEngineHell]

My theory is up there with the 144,000 your all going to find it a bit crowded and boring,then your going to erect  a giant bridge and start tossing the unwanteds off back down to heavenly earth or whatever. Like Gods version of pest control,or amusement,which ever comes first. To do it hes going to go through a cheap sub contractor. I think god is going to think,"Wow,Puerto Rico on a large scale,awesome!".

[Joe Redifer]

Seriously, God must be a fucking dumbass if he expected humans not to eventually eat that apple.  Seriously, as humans repopulated, one of them would have eventually done it.  But no, the first two humans did it!  When God created humans he said "And I shall make man a complete dumbass, like myself".  Satan easily outsmarted God.  If I believed in things like Satan, I'd give him more respect than I would give to God simply for this act alone.  God = PWNT.

[Hobo Xiphas]

free will

I am absolutely tired of Abrhamic relgious people using the flawed free will argument.  This is debunked in any basic philosophy course.

1.  According to your religion, God is omnipotent and has no power limitations
2.  Since God is omnipotent, he can design humans so that when presented a choice, they always freely choose the good.

[ParanoiaDragon]

Therefore, they'd be robots in disguise



BTW, Romans 5:12 -just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned

[rag-time4]

Seriously, God must be a fucking dumbass if he expected humans not to eventually eat that apple.  Seriously, as humans repopulated, one of them would have eventually done it.  But no, the first two humans did it!  When God created humans he said "And I shall make man a complete dumbass, like myself".  Satan easily outsmarted God.  If I believed in things like Satan, I'd give him more respect than I would give to God simply for this act alone.  God = PWNT.

LOL You make a lot of sense, but who says that God didn't expect Adam and Eve to eat the apple?

Also, we don't share the belief that Adam and Eve of the Bible were the first two humans.

[rag-time4]

Therefore, they'd be robots in disguise



BTW, Romans 5:12 -just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned

Interesting scripture! This seems to support the idea of "spiritual death" I mentioned earlier.

ParanoiaD, thanks for your comments on 1914, by the way. I've been meaning to reply.

[GUTS]

This thread is absolutely fucking retarded.

[nat]

This thread is absolutely fucking retarded.

And yet it persists!!!

[TR0N]

This thread is absolutely fucking retarded.

It is and i wounder why it hasn't died yet.

I see this kind thread at every message board i've been too.

Afther a while...ya don't care since it's been talked about a millon times all ready 

[Joe Redifer]

It is and i wounder why it hasn't died yet.

Because people are crazy about their religious beliefs.  If I say that God and Jesus have un-lubed anal sex with each other, someone else needs to try and tell me that they don't.

[Ceti Alpha]

If I say that God and Jesus have un-lubed anal sex with each other

Do they? 

[PCEngineHell]

Yea this thread is boring and lost it merits long ago.

[Joe Redifer]

I think what it all boils down to is that discussion of religion almost always causes animosity and bad feelings between people.  You can't expect anything more than that unless everyone participating has the exact same set of ridiculous beliefs.  Same goes with politics.  Why isn't there a politics thread?

[Nazi NecroPhile]

To those who are bored of this thread: why in the hell do you continue to read it?  Just looking for a reason to bitch, I suppose.

Necromancer, some of us really are beasts and really do need as much help as possible to control our appetites. If you have greater self control than that, then just by being that way you make the world a better place.

But I don't see the dress codes as being only about providing a crutch for weak willed men and women, but more for creating a culture of modesty, which I think helps prevent men and women from becoming weak willed in the first place.

My original point was that it is a means to control women and nothing more.  If it were truly intended to keep thoughts pure, then both men and women would have the same requirements (yes, men have a dress code, but it is nowhere near as concealing as women's).

Is pride among the characteristics of a "Christian lifestyle"?

I think that glorification of God is ideal, not having pride in following God's instructions. Having pride in following God's instructions may hinder us in being willing to reach out and help our fellow man who may not be practicing God's instructions.

You got me there, kind of.  Pride is the worst of the seven deadly sins, but only when it is excessive and interferes with your thoughts and actions.  My point was that having the qualities that define a 'Christian lifestyle' is something to be proud of, independent of religious code.  It doesn't matter if the actions arise because of God's instructions, because mommy told you, or just because it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Keranu, I found something in the New Testament about it, the head covering for women to be specific.

1 Corinthians Chapter 2

The Bible here presents it as a symbol of authority of men over women, which Necromancer spoke out against earlier.

verse 10 : For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.

verse 3: But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

This goes back to what I said earlier about Elijah Muhammad teaching us that women are supposed to be subordinate to men, and men are supposed to be subordinate to God. Here the Bible inserts Christ as an intermediary between man and God, which we accept, since Christ represents a perfect example for us on how to submit to the Will of Allah.

Interesting example of how to interpret something to hear just what you want to hear.  Perhaps you should read a few more verses:

11 Nevertheless, neither is man independent of woman, nor woman independent of man, in the Lord.
12 For as woman came from man, even so man also comes through woman; but all things are from God.

I interpret the earlier verses to allude to the creation of man in God's image and the creation of woman from man's rib.  In light of verses 11 and 12, how does it all imply that women are subordinate to man?

free will

I am absolutely tired of Abrhamic relgious people using the flawed free will argument.  This is debunked in any basic philosophy course.

1.  According to your religion, God is omnipotent and has no power limitations
2.  Since God is omnipotent, he can design humans so that when presented a choice, they always freely choose the good.

That's specious reasoning.  You argue that an omnipotent God is unable to choose to make a flawed being.  A being incapable of making the incorrect choice would obviously not have free will.

[Hobo Xiphas]

That's specious reasoning.  You argue that an omnipotent God is unable to choose to make a flawed being.  A being incapable of making the incorrect choice would obviously not have free will.

Oh no, you saw through my argument. 

I knew I shouldn't have listened to Dick Pole on this matter!

[Turbo D]

don't feel bad man, I listen to my dick all the time too 

[Hobo Xiphas]

Dick's my friend!  He's just not good at philosophy. 

Here he is in his younger days:

/dickpole76pl1.jpg

[Kitsunexus]

This thread is absolutely fucking retarded.

It is and i wounder why it hasn't died yet.

Keranu forgot how to lock threads.

[Keranu]

Which is better, the Bible or the Quran?  Which one is more correct?  Which one is wrong?  They both can't be right.

I recommend watching the infamous "Is The Bible God's Words?" debate between Jimmy Swaggart and Ahmed Deedat. I think every Muslim got a good laugh at Swaggart's bullshit story at the end .

"The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by 'God' one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity." - Carl Sagan ----> I stuck that one in for you Keranu.

Thanks for the quote ! Actually I'm aware of this quote already.

[PCEngineFX]

This thread is absolutely fucking retarded.

It is and i wounder why it hasn't died yet.

Keranu forgot how to lock threads.

Well, I for one was just waiting for the thread to get out of control before I locked it up but we should be able to talk about religion in a civilized manner....