Best & worst ACDs

[guyjin]

So I finally have that arcade card. Sapphire is great; If it's the only game I play with the AC, it's worth it.

However, to make my Arcade card even more awesome, I'd like to know what the best (and worst) ACD games are.

To get it started:
The other ACD I own is Fire pro female wrestling. From what I've seen of the Fire Pro games, they are very technical, and not button mashers, and this one is no different. I can't figure out how to do even basic throws. Also, outside of the wrestling itself, the game is very text-menu heavy. It took me a while just to figure out how to go one-on-one against the computer with a pregen character. The graphics are simple, but attractive, and after the long initial loading screen, there really isn't any loading at all.

A two-player mode exists, but I have yet to try it. There also seems to be a tag team mode. The game seems to have a wrestler creation mode, which appeals to me, but until I learn Japanese, there is no hope that I can create one.

in short, this might be fun if you speak the language (and aren't squicked by female wrestling - some of whom seem to be playing the part of men) but the typical pcenginefx user should avoid this.

[Ceti Alpha]

As a soon-to-be owner of an Arcade Card I'm also curious to see the opinions of the best and worst.

[GUTS]

If its like the other fire pro wrestling games, you have to time the button press to exactly when your wrestlers hands touch the other guy.  So you run up, hit the grapple button, wait a second for the animation, then hit a direction and either tap or hold the grab button as soon as your wrestler reaches out and touches the other guy.  Great fun, makes for some awesome 2-player battles since its all about timing and not just who ever grabbed first like most other wrestling games.

[SignOfZeta]

I've never played that version of FP but when the Saturn version came out I didn't have very much Japanese knowledge and I didn't have much trouble with the edit mode. Choosing the AI stuff can be hard, but just designing the wrestler and picking the moves isn't very hard. Its complex and easy to get lost in, but it would be in English too.

Like I said though, I've never played that version and the fact that it even has edit mode is kind of surprising since I thought all that stuff started on Saturn. The early FP games on PCE were total garbage.

[Tatsujin]

said with ease:

Best: Ginga Fukei Densetsu Sapphire (10AAA+++)

Worst: It is said that it is shared by Battlefield Wrestling '94 or Fire Pro Female Wrestling

[rolins]

Best (imho) was Fatal Fury Special & Strider. These were the first 2 ACD game I played and they're awesome.

Worst? Hmmm...probably Mad Stalker.

[Tatsujin]

what's so worse about mad stalker? or different said, what makes it more worse than one of those shitty wrestlers, which could've almost be done on a 2mBit Hucard (regardless to music issues)?

o'coz, it isn't that a great game, but neither it's really bad.

[awack]

The neo-geo ports are better than what you will find on the snes and genesis/sega cd, i was most impressed with world heroes 2 and fatal fury special.

Kabuki Itouryodan has good music, some of the backgrounds are very nice, and as far as i can tell, the best animation for a fighting game on the system.

Mad stalker: i think this game is damn good but a lot of people will disagree, this game has huge sprites moving at blazing speeds and screen filling explosions, it has great sound effects to go along with the action. The gameplay is single plane brawler like ninja warriors for the snes, it also has a versus mode.

[CrackTiger]

The greatest is of course Kabuki Itouryoden, followed by Fatal Fury Special and World Heroes 2.

Sapphire is a good game, but not nearly as fantastic as its generally made out to be, nor as good as many non uber rare PCE shooters.

If bicompatibles count, then Popful Mail is one of the very best as an actual game, plus it has very nice aesthetics all round. If you're not a fighting fan, then I'd rate Popful Mail the best by far.

[Tatsujin]

Sapphire is a good game, but not nearly as fantastic as its generally made out to be, nor as good as many non uber rare PCE shooters.

as we talking here about ACD games only, sapphire is keeping up the unbeaten best of all them. what makes people think of other games could battle against sapphire, with just having a itsy bitsy of chance?

The greatest is of course Kabuki Itouryoden, followed by Fatal Fury Special and World Heroes 2.

so you like beat'em ups? but let me say, that world heros isn't a good one in this category of this genre. doesn't matter if on the neo geo or PCE. but great port though.

[Joe Redifer]

What does Popful Mail add when played with the ACD card?

[OldRover]

Sapphire might be a little overhyped, but it really is a rock-solid game overall and certainly worthy of much of the praise it gets.

[Tatsujin]

Sapphire might be a little overhyped, but it really is a rock-solid game overall and certainly worthy of much of the praise it gets.

now that statement sounds just fair. plus, it uses the hardware to its absolute uber max. and the music just rox to no end, which shouldn't be unconsidered.

[awack]

I think sapphire is very good vert scrolling shooter, not as good as spriggan or nexzr though, sapphire is of course more famous for being a technical showpiece than for its gameplay but what a showpiece, for example the Egypt boss transforms into a giant mecha type thing then he starts spinning on his axis while rotating around the screen with incredible animation at the same time huge orbs feel the screen, i don't remember any slow down or flicker...HOLY HELL, let me repeat... HOLY HELL.

[OldRover]

Such feats are amazingly simple when you have such a huge memory pool to utilize. Of course, that doesn't change the fact that they look awesome.

[runinruder]

Madou Monogatari is the best ACD game and one of the greatest PCE games ever made.  Art of Fighting and Kabuki Itourryoudan are also very good.  And 3x3 Eyes, while not Arcade Card exclusive, is a must for its AC-enhanced cinemas (not to mention it's a cool comic).

[Tatsujin]

Such feats are amazingly simple when you have such a huge memory pool to utilize. Of course, that doesn't change the fact that they look awesome.

and also it doesn't change the fact, that such incredible and awesome looking effects where played by a tiny bastard 8-bit hardware made in '87.

[Tatsujin]

I think sapphire is very good vert scrolling shooter, not as good as spriggan or nexzr though, sapphire is of course more famous for being a technical showpiece than for its gameplay but what a showpiece, for example the Egypt boss transforms into a giant mecha type thing then he starts spinning on his axis while rotating around the screen with incredible animation at the same time huge orbs feel the screen, i don't remember any slow down or flicker...HOLY HELL, let me repeat... HOLY HELL.

HOLY HELL!! YES

[CrackTiger]

What does Popful Mail add when played with the ACD card?

I tried to figure that out the other day, but it kept crashing in Arcade Card mode and I ran out of time.

[guyjin]

TRU FAX: The Arcade card makes the PCE more powerful than the playstation. 

The greatest is of course Kabuki Itouryoden, followed by Fatal Fury Special and World Heroes 2.

I'm not a big fan of fighting games, especially since I'd have to get a get a 6 button controller (right?)
If you had to choose only one of those 3, which would you pick?

If bicompatibles count, then Popful Mail is one of the very best as an actual game, plus it has very nice aesthetics all round. If you're not a fighting fan, then I'd rate Popful Mail the best by far.

I'll look it up.

[awack]

Quote from: The Old Rover on Today at 06:16:04 PM
Such feats are amazingly simple when you have such a huge memory pool to utilize. Of course, that doesn't change the fact that they look awesome.

Absolutely, the neo-geo fighters, kabuki itouryodan and its great animation, mad stalker with its large, well animated, fast moving sprites but then you look at strider and instead of saying to yourself, holy hell you say, what the well, sure, in some ways its better than the genesis port but you cant help but think that it should have been so much better.

[SignOfZeta]

Sapphire might be a little overhyped, but it really is a rock-solid game overall and certainly worthy of much of the praise it gets.

Yes, its very nice. Clearly the #1 ACD but...it could have been better. The art direction in Sapphire is just all over the place. I realize that since time travel is part of the plot that this sort of thing is inherent, but it could still be half as coherent as it is technically impressive. Also the sound effects are annoying and loud. The music seems nice but its quieter than the music in, say, LoT, so I can't enjoy it as much over the shitty sound effects.

Its a nice game, but I really think both Gate of Thunder and Lords/Winds of Thunder are very much better. Also there are quite a few SCD shooters I keep hearing are great that I've never had a chance to play that are also probably better.

Fatal Fury Special is also very nice, but now that the MVS cart can be had for $10 its not very relevant. The whole point of console ports of Neo Geo games was that you could afford them, so now all the Neo Geo ports, as amazing as they are, are pointless.

[GUTS]

Popful Mail isn't a very good game on Turbo CD, it's OK at most.  Sapphire should definitely be crowned the best arcade card, I don't know why it's even up for debate since everything else is old archaic fighting games or shit like Mad Stalker that just plain sucks.

[OldRover]

There may still be some games to come that challenge Sapphire's crown.

[Tatsujin]

but not within the ACD category

[OldRover]

I wouldn't have said it otherwise; of course it's in the ACD category!

[Tatsujin]

i mean, there's no game within the ACD category, which is able to come up challenging Sapphire

[OldRover]

We'll see about that... ;)

[SignOfZeta]

Yeah, knock yourself out buddy. Code away. Code away.

[shubibiman]

but it could still be half as coherent as it is technically impressive

I totally agree with that statement.

To me, Kabuki Itoryoudan is the best and most impressive ACD game. Still, I've never played Madou Monogatari so I couldn't tell about this one. Neogeo ports are really impressive, too (World Heroes 2 is the best port IMO) but as it has already been said, I'd rather play them on my AES system (which is better than the MVS, not t'echnically of course as they are the same thing but just because I like AES carts better).

Sapphire is of course very impressive but I hav eto say that sometimes, graphics are rather lame (like this kind of lion boss in stage 2).

Mad Stalker is ok but too repetitive.

[spenoza]

I definitely think Art of Fighting is a match for Sapphire. It's just as technically impressive and could clearly only be done with the ACD.

[PCEngineHell]

I am pretty much impressed with all the Neo ports except FF2. It was a good port but not as good as the other 3. I'm very pleased with Strider. I like it alot more then the Mega Drive version. Sapphire is a great game and all,but if you take out the special rendered fx/sprites the actual game itself barely competes with Spriggan in alot of areas. Spriggan is still the better shooter.

[Ceti Alpha]

The stone creature/boss in Sapphire is so frackin' cool. The Arcade Card was really starting to make PCE games look like PS1/Dreamcast games.

[guyjin]

The stone creature/boss in Sapphire is so frackin' cool. The Arcade Card was really starting to make PCE games look like PS1/Dreamcast games.

They're called golems. Read some fantasy! 

[Ceti Alpha]

They're called golems. Read some fantasy!  Mad

haha. Negatron. Fantasy makes me noxious. I almost threw up with boredom watching The Lord of the Rings...though the cartoon version was pretty cool - mainly because of Ralph Bakshi's sweet animation. Seriously though, I could never get into fantasy. Science fiction? Yup. But fantasy, not so much.

[guyjin]

Lord of the rings is kinda boring, actually. Trying to read the first one puts me to sleep. But the movies are good.

Have you ever read any Shadowrun novels? that world is a weird mix of fantasy and scifi which I really like.

[spenoza]

Ceti, I agree. For reading, good sci fi trounces any and all fantasy contenders (pretenders?). Still, some fantasy is worth a look. Like Zelazny's Amber series. Of course, Zelazny was a sci-fi author, so it's natural he'd kick the pants off the fantasy genre at its own game.

But WOW am I off-topic...

Uhhh, uhhh.... ACD, yeah! Were there many (any) RPGs that could put the ACD to work?

[runinruder]

Uhhh, uhhh.... ACD, yeah! Were there many (any) RPGs that could put the ACD to work?

The aforementioned Madou Monogatari, though it's a first-person dungeon crawler (starring the characters you probably know from Puyo Puyo) rather than a traditional-style RPG.

[guyjin]

The aforementioned Madou Monogatari, though it's a first-person dungeon crawler (starring the characters you probably know from Puyo Puyo) rather than a traditional-style RPG. 

GAH, I hate dungeon crawlers. So boring.

[turbofan1]

Wasn't Brandish kinda A scd/acd type game?.I heard Strider wasn't very good.There was only one stage that had multi plane scrolling.

[termis]

I heard Strider wasn't very good.There was only one stage that had multi plane scrolling.

Graphics are crummy, but the audio blows away any version of Strider out there.

[Joe Redifer]

Eh, I dunno.  Technically the music is better, of course.  Strider's voice when he swings his sword sounds really compressed and bad.  Many of the characters talk to you during the stage and they don't sound so hot, either (besides, that just wastes time).  The sounds are different from those in the arcade, for example the amazon bitches screams sound completely different (and muffled).

[Tatsujin]

but the audio blows away any version of Strider out there.

no way!! i like the MD or Arcade original audio way better! it's really well composed and fits the best to the game / each scene.

[SuperDeadite]

Brandish can use the ACD, but I think it only makes the game scroll a bit smoother.  As for Madou Monogatari, I wouldn't
call it a "dungeon crawler."  It is first person, but the emphasis is more on puzzle solving.  The puzzles take you all over
the tower.  You can build your own walls and floors in real time.  It plays a lot more like an adventure game then anything
else in my opinion.  Great game, but the language barrier might be too scary for some.

[spenoza]

How would the ACD make a game scroll more smoothly? All it has is some additional memory.

[OldRover]

How would the ACD make a game scroll more smoothly? All it has is some additional memory.

In theory...if CPU time is consumed for tile decompression, the game could...in theory...scroll slower. If the data was stored uncompressed in the ACD RAM banks, no CPU time is wasted decompressing the graphics and...in theory...it would scroll smoother.

The ACD also has a couple of math operations, but I don't know if they'd factor in here or not...but they may.

[termis]

I believe one of the folks here verified that Brandish just caches some of the dungeons on the extra ACD RAM to decrease load times, but it shouldn't do anything extra during actual game play.

And yeah, as for Strider audio, I should probably say that I like the BGM a lot better than the original.  I probably should've said the music.  I can agree with the muted sound effects compared to the original, but the music -- there's just no contest. 

Arcade BGM
PCE BGM

[CrackTiger]

How would the ACD make a game scroll more smoothly? All it has is some additional memory.

One way PCE games can "fake" parallax/layered bgs is with animated bg tiles.

Ys III's choppy bgs may be faithful to te MSX version but its thought that it didn't improve the scrolling frame rate because it was still only a 2.0 CD game. But if the game had 36 times as much space to store frames of animation, in theory it should be able to animate things as smooth as possible.

[spenoza]

But most of the background tiles are small and repeated. All it has to do is shift the tiles. I don't think jittery scrolling is a memory issue. It's a programming issue.

[runinruder]

its thought that it didn't improve the scrolling frame rate because it was still only a 2.0 CD

Tenshi no Uta II is a Super CD and has similar issues.