Sony, leading the horse race again?

bob · 02/20/2013, 07:30 PM

http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/20/technology/sony-playstation-4/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

If this was already linked somewhere, I apologize. I am reserving comment on this for now.

SignOfZeta · 02/20/2013, 07:58 PM

Least essential console of all time.

SuperDeadite · 02/20/2013, 08:00 PM

Predictive Downloads and auto-facebook integratoin. ROLF.

ElSeven · 02/20/2013, 09:13 PM

imo, total yawn. there are very few current gen games that get me excited at all, maybe that is just a part of getting older...idk.

TheClash603 · 02/20/2013, 09:27 PM

The only thing I liked is that the Vita can be used to play PS4 games anywhere. Essentially now you can buy a game one time and play it on the go to your heart's content. I still haven't given Diablo 3 a try, but I think it will be a great Vita game.

The only thing I don't like is that dedicated games for the Vita may begin to trickle (or more trickle I guess you can say) and that a game that is great on consoles doesn't necessarily make sense on a portable system.

BlueBMW · 02/20/2013, 09:49 PM

Looks like a computer to me. I've already got a computer....

roflmao · 02/20/2013, 10:33 PM

Quote from: BlueBMW on 02/20/2013, 09:49 PMLooks like a computer to me. I've already got a computer....

I remember hearing that a lot just before the Xbox came out. I guess in some respects it wasn't far from the truth.

This does smack of familiarity. It's like they've taken what's popular with current cell phones and added it to a beefy PS3. I guess it's not surprising, but I'm still not sold that this is where gaming should be headed.

Mishran · 02/20/2013, 11:23 PM

I've got my Turbo and Neo, life is good.

If not for soft modding my Wii, that would still be sitting around collecting dust. I've lost count of the number of months that passed since touching my 360 or PS3. This new fangled shit can suck it. Give me retro any day!

TR0N · 02/21/2013, 12:21 AM

I still like to know if it will be backwards compatible with PS3 titles or not.I did try to watch sony press release but mostly it was techno babble,if any thing at all.

SamIAm · 02/21/2013, 12:37 AM

8 gigs of RAM is nice. Most other consoles in history, from the Atari 2600 to the PS3, have a serious shortage of RAM. It seems to be the component of choice to economize on. Funnily enough, I think they reason they're being generous this time is because increases in processor performance have dropped off these last several years and they need something to beef the system up.

The effort they're putting into networking is probably a good idea overall, but a whole share button on the controller sounds a little extreme. I'm guessing they're looking at the let's-plays, long-plays and superplays on youtube and trying to capture the same interest. I admit, it would be nice to easily capture footage of certain games I'd like to show off, but what I wonder is a) are they inviting a tsunami of garbage and b) will this actually affect people's buying habits?

Also, streaming the game from anywhere sounds nice, but what about the lag? When was the last time you had a video stream load in 1/60th of a second? Even if they scale it way the hell down and run it through some light compression codec, we're talking about a huge amount of data that has to arrive no more than maybe 1/10th of a second after you press the button for it.

jlued686 · 02/21/2013, 12:48 AM

I'm having a hard time caring about the PS4. I just don't feel like it's needed. All I've ever cared about is the games, and nothing shown interests me in the least. I'm taking a wait-and-see approach; definitely won't be there for launch.

bartre · 02/21/2013, 12:59 AM

honestly, i have never picked up any system within 2 years of its birth.
i don't plan on breaking that trend now, though i am seeing quite a few games coming out for the vita that i like so far.
that said, i agree with clash on the whole "a game that is great on consoles doesn't necessarily make sense on a portable system." thing.
I still can't justify playing persona 3 portable, just feels weird.

ParanoiaDragon · 02/21/2013, 01:04 AM

Like Bartre, I do wait a couple years. Infact, the only system I can recall buying on launch, was the GBA.

It's nice to have the shiny new gfx. There are still games that come along that interest me, even if they're fewer & farther between with each generation. I'm excited about another InFamous game for PS4, I was sadly guessing they were going to end it with IF2. I also heard recently from a great source, that Naughty Dog is working on a new Uncharted, so I'll assume it's for PS4(though, I'd prefer a new Jak & Daxter, & I voiced my opinion to that source). I don't care about sharing/Facebook/etc., but it might come in handy to record my games, if only to replay some spot of a game that I really enjoyed.

I've read that it IS backwards compatible with PS1-3. However, there was some question as to whether it can actually play the real discs, or not. Sounds like somehow, the cloud thing is involved in the b/c. Got this from magicbox:

"PS4 will use Gaikai's cloud streaming service to provide backward compatibility for PS3, PS2, PS1 and PS Mobile games on PS4."

As for the Vita, Ys Celceta comes out in September, so, that's my reason for getting a Vita, though I'm hoping a new model &/or price drop will happen beforehand. I might even pick up Ys, & then wait for the price drop. There was a new model that they registered the copyright for, with an HDMI out & some other things, hopefully that is coming soon.

Nando · 02/21/2013, 09:41 AM

Quote from: BlueBMW on 02/20/2013, 09:49 PMLooks like a computer to me. I've already got a computer....

What a few of us thought as well. Granted that was the original plan for the PS3 cell processor. So now we have the PS4-U erm PS-Vita-4-U?

Raizen1984 · 02/21/2013, 11:01 AM

From what I understand, the PS4 is not natively backward compatible with the PS3. Like ParanoiaDragon stated, the "PlayStation Cloud" will be used to stream classic games for play on PS4.

That doesn't sit well with me. I really don't think we're ready for streaming gaming.

Arkhan Asylum · 02/21/2013, 11:06 AM

if it plays enough exclusive titles that it justifies the cost, hurray.

Who fucking cares about all the other features. That stuff isn't for gamers. It's for people who pretend they're gamers only when their friends are watching.

which will be all-the-fuckin-time, now.

Joe Redifer · 02/21/2013, 11:09 AM

I have a problem with games that say what level I'm currently playing on other peoples friends lists that I am on. Some will even go so far as to list the difficulty setting and times I've tried a level. This takes that to the Nth degree, whatever that is.

Nando · 02/21/2013, 11:14 AM

Quote from: Raizen1984 on 02/21/2013, 11:01 AMFrom what I understand, the PS4 is not natively backward compatible with the PS3. Like ParanoiaDragon stated, the "PlayStation Cloud" will be used to stream classic games for play on PS4.

That doesn't sit well with me. I really don't think we're ready for streaming gaming.

Form what I was reading PS1 - PS3 games will be streamed via the console. I figure this will take a while.

jlued686 · 02/21/2013, 11:36 AM

Engadget has also confirmed that PSN titles and saves will not be compatible w/PS4.

Arkhan Asylum · 02/21/2013, 11:38 AM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/21/2013, 11:09 AMI have a problem with games that say what level I'm currently playing on other peoples friends lists that I am on. Some will even go so far as to list the difficulty setting and times I've tried a level. This takes that to the Nth degree, whatever that is.

yeah, I just stay off the internet on it. I got tired of my friends going HURHRHARUHR I HAVE MOAR TROPHIES.

Nando · 02/21/2013, 12:24 PM

Quote from: guest on 02/21/2013, 11:36 AMEngadget has also confirmed that PSN titles and saves will not be compatible w/PS4.

Sounds like a Nintendo move, those purchases are tied to your PS3 machine and account, if you want the same PSN games on the PS4, ya gonna have to buy them again kid.

_Paul · 02/21/2013, 12:24 PM

4 consoles and these jokers still can't put the left analogue stick in the correct place.

Also, this.

Nando · 02/21/2013, 12:49 PM

Quote from: guest on 02/21/2013, 12:24 PMAlso, this.

Brilliant!

jlued686 · 02/21/2013, 01:47 PM

Didn't have time earlier to post the link to my prior post, but here it is:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/02/21/sony-psn-games-wont-transfer-to-ps4/

QuoteIt's the morning after the night before, and Sony Worldwide Studios president Shuhei Yoshida has just confirmed to us that current-generation PSN titles won't transfer across to the PlayStation 4. The company admitted last night that PS3 games wouldn't be compatible with the latest console, but has added that it will try to make titles playable "in some form." Because the architecture of the Power-PC-based PS3 and x86-based PlayStation 4 are so different, Sony will only bring across games that don't guzzle the latest console's power in emulation. The executive also said that the company aims to offer server-side and cloud services to offer a wider library of older games, but said that's one for the "longer term."

Quote from: Nando on 02/21/2013, 12:24 PMSounds like a Nintendo move, those purchases are tied to your PS3 machine and account, if you want the same PSN games on the PS4, ya gonna have to buy them again kid.

I can at least play my WiiWare/VC purchases on my WiiU, and the saves transfer over as well. Granted, I have to enter clunky "Wii Mode" to access them, but it's at least there.

jeffhlewis · 02/21/2013, 04:42 PM

I bought a PS3 for GoW3 and to have a decent blu-ray player/streaming machine and really loved it. I barely use it as a games machine though, simply because I don't have time to play 40+ hour modern games and don't really have a taste for them anymore anyways.

I know that the PS4 specs are a leap over the previous generation, but after watching the trailers from the announcement - I really feel like we're hitting a plateau with graphic improvement. Hell, I'm still impressed by most of the stuff my PS3 pumps out on a regular basis.

Arkhan Asylum · 02/21/2013, 05:38 PM

Quote from: jeffhlewis on 02/21/2013, 04:42 PMI really feel like we're hitting a plateau with graphic improvement. Hell, I'm still impressed by most of the stuff my PS3 pumps out on a regular basis.

That's what I was saying when PS3 came out! I was like "Its not really going to get that much better than this".

So, my hope is maybe developers will realize that, stop fucking around with shinies, and start making it so the games stop sucking.

That'd be awesome.

jlued686 · 02/21/2013, 06:28 PM

Yeah, Nintendo's definitely right in that we've reached a point of diminishing returns on graphics. It seems like now they're just trying to make fancier machines that do other shit, only some of which actually enhances the gaming experience.

Honestly, I just want it to get to the point where gaming becomes a streaming service, a la Netflix. We can subscribe to the Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft service through our AppleTV, Roku, BluRay Player, SmartTV, Cable Box, whatever, sync up a controller or peripheral, and go. I'm thinking the days of buying three separate proprietary boxes are coming to an end.

SignOfZeta · 02/21/2013, 06:28 PM

I'm still impressed by Dreamcast graphics...

If they want to blow me away with PS4 make it load faster and update less. Refuse to license any game that as unskipable logos for all the publishers, developers, graphics engines, etc that nobody gives a shit about.

Make a controller that costs less than $60 motherfucking dollars. Get someone who's not autistic to overhaul the XMB. Let it charge the controller when the system is off.

These practical things are what the system lacks, not wizz bang bullshit.

Nando · 02/21/2013, 07:27 PM

I want to see awesome AI from a machine like the ps3

TheClash603 · 02/21/2013, 08:51 PM

I would love to see some awesome 3D gaming.

...yep, I am that guy.

SignOfZeta · 02/21/2013, 08:54 PM

The AI in GT5 sucked. It sucked in GT4, and GT3 as well. Meanwhile, the AI was quite good in F355 Challenge which came out in 1999, before any of these games.

If there is an actual GAMEPLAY related idea that anyone has right now, not graphics, gameplay, that they actually understand how to implement but can't simply because no machine is currently powerful enough to do it then...I'd like to hear about it. I'm pretty sure that doesn't exist. And if it does exist, it would probably take the GDP of three countries to develop it.

The PS4 is going to give you new ways to shoot a guy in the face and share it on YouTube. That's it.

ParanoiaDragon · 02/22/2013, 01:22 AM

Falcom is on the dev list, so I'm atleast halfway interested in it now...atleast assuming any of their games make it stateside. Would love it if someone would get on the ball so we can catch up on all the Legend of Heroes stuff!

SignOfZeta · 02/22/2013, 02:16 AM

Quote from: ParanoiaDragon on 02/22/2013, 01:22 AMFalcom is on the dev list, so I'm atleast halfway interested in it now...atleast assuming any of their games make it stateside. Would love it if someone would get on the ball so we can catch up on all the Legend of Heroes stuff!

Yeah, because Falcom is known for pushing systems SO HARD that they need the PS4.

Arkhan Asylum · 02/22/2013, 01:28 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 02/22/2013, 02:16 AMYeah, because Falcom is known for pushing systems SO HARD that they need the PS4.

I ram things pretty hard in Ys.

Vecanti · 02/22/2013, 06:11 PM

Oooh, that's why you prefer CRTs.

Joe Redifer · 02/22/2013, 08:09 PM

Quote from: guest on 02/22/2013, 01:28 PM
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 02/22/2013, 02:16 AMYeah, because Falcom is known for pushing systems SO HARD that they need the PS4.
I ram things pretty hard in Ys.

Ys games always use maximum RAM.

ParanoiaDragon · 02/22/2013, 08:25 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 02/22/2013, 02:16 AM
Quote from: ParanoiaDragon on 02/22/2013, 01:22 AMFalcom is on the dev list, so I'm atleast halfway interested in it now...atleast assuming any of their games make it stateside. Would love it if someone would get on the ball so we can catch up on all the Legend of Heroes stuff!
Yeah, because Falcom is known for pushing systems SO HARD that they need the PS4.

Too true, but the thought of Falcom doing home console games is exciting for me. As it is, there's a Legend of Heroes game that's cross platform with PS3 & Vita. I'd buy both if somebody would ever release them here!

Tatsujin · 02/22/2013, 10:20 PM

Sie sony but erm...

Deletion · 02/22/2013, 10:36 PM

Quote from: TheClash603 on 02/21/2013, 08:51 PMI would love to see some awesome 3D gaming.

...yep, I am that guy.

According to one of Sony's execs, 3D gaming is not going to be a focus of the PS4. Quote below.

From: http://www.gamespot.com/news/yoshida-talks-all-things-playstation-4-6404291

On 3D support for PS4
No, it's not a focus, but it does [support 3D]. More games will run at 1080p and 60 frames per second, so it's an easier and better experience when you watch on 3D TV. We like what we can do on PS3 using 3D, but now the consumer electronics side [of Sony Corp.] has shifted focus from 3D TV to something else, so if they are not talking about it, why are we?

ParanoiaDragon · 02/23/2013, 01:09 AM

Quote from: Deletion on 02/22/2013, 10:36 PM
Quote from: TheClash603 on 02/21/2013, 08:51 PMI would love to see some awesome 3D gaming.

...yep, I am that guy.
According to one of Sony's execs, 3D gaming is not going to be a focus of the PS4. Quote below.

From: http://www.gamespot.com/news/yoshida-talks-all-things-playstation-4-6404291

On 3D support for PS4
No, it's not a focus, but it does [support 3D]. More games will run at 1080p and 60 frames per second, so it's an easier and better experience when you watch on 3D TV. We like what we can do on PS3 using 3D, but now the consumer electronics side [of Sony Corp.] has shifted focus from 3D TV to something else, so if they are not talking about it, why are we?

Finally, they're going to be supporting Smell-o-vision, YES!!!!!

TR0N · 02/23/2013, 03:38 AM

It's been stated that the PS4 will be able to play used games.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-02-21-sony-tells-eurogamer-playstation-4-will-not-block-used-games

TheClash603 · 02/23/2013, 10:30 AM

Well, even if 3D games aren't the focus, I got my fingers crossed that some developers continue to make their games 3D. Some genres, specifically racing, can benefit from the tech.

I have to admit that I am pretty disappointed the PS4 won't be able to play the games on the PSN I downloaded on the PS3. If the new Xbox does have this backward compatibility functionality, it will immediately jump in front of the PS4 as far as which system I want more. I am not even asking for support f full retail games, just the Xbox Live Arcade games I have.

Bernie · 02/23/2013, 12:09 PM

I'll stick with the Xbox line, seeing as how that is where the Fable series is at. Most games I want to play are released on multiple consoles anyway, so I have no need for the PS4. It is good to see that they are not preventing used games from being played though.

ParanoiaDragon · 02/23/2013, 08:54 PM

I think Sony will eventually give in & have to make it b/c on PSN titles, cuz that right there sucks, & I don't think anybody will be happy about it, & people will bitch & moan about it.

jlued686 · 02/24/2013, 11:40 AM

Just like after removing b/c from the PS3-to-PS2, they gave in and reinstated it?

Yeah... ;)

SignOfZeta · 02/24/2013, 03:24 PM

Quote from: ParanoiaDragon on 02/23/2013, 08:54 PMI think Sony will eventually give in & have to make it b/c on PSN titles, cuz that right there sucks, & I don't think anybody will be happy about it, & people will bitch & moan about it.

The 4 has zero in common with the 3 and won't be powerful enough to emulate the 3 outright so the only way to have the 4 support the 3 would be to basically build a 3 inside of it, further jacking up the build cost of a machine that might already be expensive enough to destroy the company. In other words, they already did that with the 3 and eventually removed support for the 2 to lose less on the system.

If you don't like this idea, don't sell your PS3.

TheClash603 · 02/24/2013, 05:06 PM

The point is that the PSN games on PS3 are not full PS3 level quality games. They should find a way for these games to run, even if a full disc release cannot run.

From a technical perspective, it might not be easy to do, but that's why these tech guys make their money. If the $99 Ouya is going to be able to run old games on each model that comes out 1 year later, it is a joke that the PS4 can't run games that can work on a system that is nearly a decade old.

ParanoiaDragon · 02/24/2013, 11:05 PM

Quote from: TheClash603 on 02/24/2013, 05:06 PMThe point is that the PSN games on PS3 are not full PS3 level quality games. They should find a way for these games to run, even if a full disc release cannot run.

From a technical perspective, it might not be easy to do, but that's why these tech guys make their money. If the $99 Ouya is going to be able to run old games on each model that comes out 1 year later, it is a joke that the PS4 can't run games that can work on a system that is nearly a decade old.

That's exactly what I would think. It's not like any of the PSN games are a bunch of number cruncher's.

Either way, I have no plans on ever selling my PS3. I haven't bothered to sell a game system in 20 years I'd guess, so I'm in the clear in that respect, but I'd still like to be able to port over the games I'd paid for, whether it be the 16-bitters(like Monster World IV), PSN exclusives, or PS1/2 games.

Arkhan Asylum · 02/24/2013, 11:15 PM

Quote from: TheClash603 on 02/24/2013, 05:06 PMThe point is that the PSN games on PS3 are not full PS3 level quality games. They should find a way for these games to run, even if a full disc release cannot run.

From a technical perspective, it might not be easy to do, but that's why these tech guys make their money. If the $99 Ouya is going to be able to run old games on each model that comes out 1 year later, it is a joke that the PS4 can't run games that can work on a system that is nearly a decade old.

The Cell architecture is completely different. The executable code for it can't run on an X86 machine. It would require being rewritten and rebuilt.

The reason Ouya can do what it can do is because the CPU architecture is the same. It just gets faster/better.

What they'd have to do is provide companies with the means to rebuild PS3 games with the PS4 as the target.

It will probably work fine for lower end games. Might not work good for the high end ones...

TheClash603 · 02/25/2013, 12:31 AM

Quote from: guest on 02/24/2013, 11:15 PM
Quote from: TheClash603 on 02/24/2013, 05:06 PMThe point is that the PSN games on PS3 are not full PS3 level quality games. They should find a way for these games to run, even if a full disc release cannot run.

From a technical perspective, it might not be easy to do, but that's why these tech guys make their money. If the $99 Ouya is going to be able to run old games on each model that comes out 1 year later, it is a joke that the PS4 can't run games that can work on a system that is nearly a decade old.
The Cell architecture is completely different. The executable code for it can't run on an X86 machine. It would require being rewritten and rebuilt.

The reason Ouya can do what it can do is because the CPU architecture is the same. It just gets faster/better.

What they'd have to do is provide companies with the means to rebuild PS3 games with the PS4 as the target.

It will probably work fine for lower end games. Might not work good for the high end ones...

Then Sony messed up and should've thought about things a little harder when launching the PSN on PS3. The reason I always buy games on PSN and not X360 is because A.) the controller is better and B.) some of them are playable on multiple devices (PS3, PSP, Vita), which is really cool. I guess I just thought Sony had its shit together and this really let me down.

Imagine if the iPhone 6 came out and they said, "BTW, all of the games made for the old ones don't work anymore." The counter argument to this scenario is what you said, "this is completely different hardware, that is just an upgrade." My counter argument to this is that Apple (as much as I hate the Company) seemingly had the foresight to think this through and update its systems in a way that calls for integration and Sony failed in this regard.