WOW - Cosmic Fantasy 2

guyjin · 09/07/2006, 08:41 PM

FINALLY got my duo working again. (had it plugged in to a bad socket on a power strip - had to run an extension cord across the room

)

First game I played: Cosmic Fantasy 2. I haven't been able to play it since I got it.

And all I have to say is: WOW.

Scratch that, I won't be able to shut up about this game for a while

It's amazing what I was missing out on back in '91. Stupid SNES.

The spoken dialog is a little stiff, but I can forgive that.

Also, playing with just Van is a tad tedious. But I'm sure that will change soon enough. (I'm not reading any FAQs, so don't give anything away!

T2KFreeker · 09/07/2006, 08:43 PM

Quote from: guyjinFINALLY got my duo working again. (had it plugged in to a bad socket on a power strip - had to run an extension cord across the room )

First game I played: Cosmic Fantasy 2. I haven't been able to play it since I got it.

And all I have to say is: WOW.

Scratch that, I won't be able to shut up about this game for a while
It's amazing what I was missing out on back in '91. Stupid SNES.

The spoken dialog is a little stiff, but I can forgive that.

Also, playing with just Van is a tad tedious. But I'm sure that will change soon enough. (I'm not reading any FAQs, so don't give anything away!

Yeah, almost any of the games ported to the Turbo by Working Designs is a masterpoiece and one of the reasons several of us were Turbo Fans back in the day and looked st the SNES and Genesis fans like they were on crack.

Joe Redifer · 09/07/2006, 09:52 PM

I played through a friend's copy of CF2 back when it came out. I wish I had it myself. I remember Van's voice because it is the same guy (Hiro) from Lunar 2 who keeps saying "Lucia.... Lucia...." over and over and over. An RPG where the main protagonist isn't a mute. Wow. Just wow.

T2KFreeker · 09/07/2006, 10:09 PM

Quote from: Joe RediferI played through a friend's copy of CF2 back when it came out. I wish I had it myself. I remember Van's voice because it is the same guy (Hiro) from Lunar 2 who keeps saying "Lucia.... Lucia...." over and over and over. An RPG where the main protagonist isn't a mute. Wow. Just wow.

It was a Working Designs thing man! Yes it was!

Keranu · 09/07/2006, 11:03 PM

CF2 is a bit dull when it comes to the ingame graphics and soundtrack and the battles are pretty average, but what really shines is the amazing story, characters, and cinemas; way ahead of any other RPG at it's time. There are lots of fantastic story moments in the game and all of us who have beat the game know what they are and I'm not going to spoil anything ;) .

By the way, there isn't anything wrong with the songs in the soundtrack itself, in fact a couple are quite good, it's just that there are only like four total songs in the entire soundtrack.

RuninRuder · 09/07/2006, 11:11 PM

Cosmic Fantasy 2 is an old favorite of mine. The story and characters are unforgettable, the ending is one of the best ever, the music (though there isn't much of it) is cool and really atmospheric at times, and Babs is hot. The battle system is the only thing that stinks (though I've always liked the way the enemies were drawn for some reason).

And SNES RPGs were terrible. I'd much rather play CF2, Dragon Slayer, Emerald Dragon, Manji Maru, Kabuki Den, or Ziria than any of that Super Nintendo slop.

Keranu · 09/07/2006, 11:15 PM

I don't go as far as Runin by saying SNES games are slop because there are some I like, but CF2 offers a story that no SNES RPG can really match.

guyjin · 09/08/2006, 12:35 AM

Quote from: runinruderAnd SNES RPGs were terrible. I'd much rather play CF2, Dragon Slayer, Emerald Dragon, Manji Maru, Kabuki Den, or Ziria than any of that Super Nintendo slop.

Well, that's a bit harsh. But other than CF2, are any of those availiable in english? (I actually have ziria, but it's in Japanese, so I never play)

RuninRuder · 09/08/2006, 12:38 AM

Dragon Slayer was released in the US.

ParanoiaDragon · 09/08/2006, 12:43 AM

CF2 is the first game to ever move me so much, that I actually cried. That may sound wierd, but it's true. I also get goose bumps when I hear certain songs.

GUTS · 09/08/2006, 12:50 AM

Chrono Trigger smashes Cosmic Fantasy 2 over it's mighty knee.

RuninRuder · 09/08/2006, 12:57 AM

There's nothing wrong with crying over a video game. I cry during Cosmic Fantasy 2's touching conclusion. I cry when the Ys Book I and 2 credits roll. And I certainly cry when I get to the middle of a level in Deep Blue and the scary music starts blaring and millions of enemies suddenly appear.

Keranu · 09/08/2006, 02:54 AM

Can't say I have cried during a game, but I've got the goosebumps during moments like CF2 and the end credits of Ys Book I & II. When a game can do that to someone, that really shows how powerful it is.

SignOfZeta · 09/08/2006, 07:13 AM

I enjoyed CF2 immensely back in the day. The cinemas and all that...very nice. It also has OK load times. Not as quick as Manji Maru (I'm pretty sure nothing is) but much better than anything post-PS1.

Truely though, its a crap RPG. Absolutely terrible. The in-game graphics are sub-master system. The game play is the worst part though. All the shops sell items to protect you from certain kinds of elemental magic...but I'm pretty sure that no enemy in the game casts spells! Its really rare at least. The dungeons can be huge, boring, dirges. If you only have Van then you are a long long way from anywhere.

The game will always be special to me, but if it were a SNES game with no CD bonus, it would certainly be the worst RPG on that system. Even worse than 7th Saga. Not only does it suck rocks compared to Earthbound, Chrono Trigger, FFVI, etc, it can't compare to other PCE titles like Manji Maru, Emerald Dragon, Kabuki Den, Startling Odyssey, or even stuff that actually was translated like Ys 1&2, or Dragon Slayer.

Its too bad that WD didn't stick with the Turbo for just a while longer. Subsequent Cosmic Fantasy games are *vastly* superior. So *so* much better. Another cool game for them to have done would have been Startling Odyssey II. That thing is a gem, and it has a fantastic ending.

guyjin · 09/08/2006, 07:38 AM

QuoteThe in-game graphics are sub-master system.

You're insane.

OldRover · 09/08/2006, 09:04 AM

Quote from: GUTSChrono Trigger

*yawn* I fell asleep after two minutes of that bore-fest.

TurboXray · 09/08/2006, 11:23 AM

QuoteAnother cool game for them to have done would have been Startling Odyssey II. That thing is a gem, and it has a fantastic ending.

It's a decent game from what I've seen, but for '94 the production value seem a little low relative to other titles.

Chrono Triger was cool, but seriously over hiped. I've beat it twice. I like the first half of the game more than the second half.

pixeljunkie · 09/08/2006, 12:23 PM

CF2 is great. Chrono Trigger is overrated...but also superb. Chrono Cross is INCREDIBLE though.

I never finished Dragon Slayer....will someday.

Ys IV kills them all!

GUTS · 09/08/2006, 02:17 PM

I was just joking about Chrono Trigger smashing CF2, I really like CF2 actually. BUT Chrono Trigger is still the best RPG I've ever played, I don't get how anyone could possibly not like it. The characters are great (well except for Chrono of course), the story is interesting, the graphics are very nice, but mostly it's just a blast. I've never played another RPG where fights and exploring were so much fun. Going through the time periods is a blast, and the new game+ feature with the different endings was pure fucking genius.

Plus how can you not like the double and triple techs? Those were sweet, I've never played another RPG with such a unique battle system. I loved trying all the combos of characters and figuring out which techs were the best.

Keranu · 09/08/2006, 04:32 PM

I like Chrono Trigger, but the game can bore me, as nod posted, but not nearly as bad as some other games out there. I never really got into the battle system of the game either. It's cool and original and all, but it just seems "chunky" to me, something I don't feel comfortable using. Perhaps it's because the battles take longer to beat than a standard RPG? The graphics are beautiful though, especially when you go to that place in the sky and the music is pretty damn good as well. Maybe I should give the game another try, I made it to the end once but my saved got erased.

TurboXray · 09/08/2006, 06:26 PM

I wish Chrono Trigger had more futuristic parts in the game - that's when the story hit a high point. Those were my favorite parts - that and the near distant past (were you find the toad guy). They were connected more with the present time of the game. The first time I played through it - back when it came out, I had a blast. The second time through on the emu many years later - wasn't as great as I remembered it. Nor was it much fun after 1/3 of the game. FFV and FFVI (US) were great and I've beaten both atleast 3 times. They hold up much better than CT.

Chrono Cross on PS1 was really fun, but I got stuck in the game - about half way through and lost interested when I realized that I had to start over again. Now a days, it's hard for me to play any 3D PS1 game. The graphics hurt my eyes

With a few exceptions (FFIX), I'll take NES graphics over PS1 3D.

grahf · 09/08/2006, 07:13 PM

I only played an hour or so into CF2. It started of with a bang, but was very tedious from the first town, through the first dungeon and into the second town. I'll have to give it another go soon. I think i accidentally erased my save, and didnt feel like starting over at the time.

About Chrono Trigger, thats a phenominal game. From the floating city of Zeal, to the whole court room trial, it was great all the way. What really makes it great is the multiple endings (14 i think). You really dont start having fun until you get the New Game+.

SignOfZeta · 09/08/2006, 07:25 PM

Can anyone confirm, or deny a purpose to the protection items in CF2? I remember there being one that protects from fire, poison, etc, and yet I was never poisoned, or had a fire spell (or any other spell) cast on me once in the entire game. I may have been poisoned, not sure.

I've been wondering about this for ages. Is it a bug that WD introduced, or is the game that broke? Because...that's pretty broke. I mean, these things are in all the shops, and they seem to have no frikken use whatsoever...like that dude that sells insurence in Animal Crossing.

OldRover · 09/08/2006, 08:27 PM

Quote from: SignOfZetaCan anyone confirm, or deny a purpose to the protection items in CF2? I remember there being one that protects from fire, poison, etc, and yet I was never poisoned, or had a fire spell (or any other spell) cast on me once in the entire game. I may have been poisoned, not sure.

I've been wondering about this for ages. Is it a bug that WD introduced, or is the game that broke? Because...that's pretty broke. I mean, these things are in all the shops, and they seem to have no frikken use whatsoever...like that dude that sells insurence in Animal Crossing.

According to Don Shirley, the protection items serve no purpose in the USA version of CF2, as all enemy magics were removed from the game by WD to ease the difficulty level. So now their only purpose is to serve as cashflow enhancers...you find one, you sell it for pure profit.

It's not a bug per se, but it was intentional. It seems some other things broke in the process though.

SignOfZeta · 09/08/2006, 10:58 PM

That...is an incredibly stupid idea, and a bad localization choice...even by WD standards.

Keranu · 09/09/2006, 01:36 AM

Quote from: grahfI only played an hour or so into CF2. It started of with a bang, but was very tedious from the first town, through the first dungeon and into the second town. I'll have to give it another go soon. I think i accidentally erased my save, and didnt feel like starting over at the time.

That's pretty much exactly how I thought of the game when I first played it. However during a certain spot in the game that isn't too, too far off from where you are, the interest level will practically explode and the game only gets better from there on

.

PC Gaijin · 09/09/2006, 05:34 PM

I haven't played CF2 since it came out but...I remember being not terribly impressed by it. The cinemas and voice were nice, but the battle system was very, very slow. All those little loads (like spooling attack sounds off the CD) didn't help either.

One thing I do remember is getting stuck at one point in the game and writing a letter to Working Designs about it. Yeah, I used to do that in the old days because lots of devs/pubs actually answered their mail back then.

Anyway, someone from WD called me up and told me how to get past the part I was stuck at. That built up some goodwill between me and WD, but that evaporated years later when I had the audacity to ask Vic Ireland about the translation of some parts of Alundra and he blasted me for it in a very nasty email.

OldRover · 09/09/2006, 06:16 PM

Quote from: PC GaijinAll those little loads (like spooling attack sounds off the CD) didn't help either.

No attack sounds were loaded from the CD during runtime...obviously this would have disrupted the audio.

But the other loads, yes, they were annoying but necessary due to the tiny amount of memory the game had to work with. Had this been a super cdrom, that all would have been eliminated, as there would have been plenty of memory to work with...but alas...

Seldane · 09/09/2006, 06:28 PM

I have never really played Cosmic Fantasy 2. I've always wanted to, though ( I remember seeing screenshots of it way, WAY back). However, all these small things that I keep hearing about keeps me away from the game. I hate a slow RPG. I hate random encounter and I hate long, boring dungeons.

Too bad. The story seems interesting.

About Chrono Trigger: I like the game but I never finished it because I got tired of it. I loved it up until then, though. Definitely one of the better RPGs I've played. Square games tend to get repeditive and boring after a while (like 15-20 hours or so), this is the case with every Square game I have ever played.

I also disagree with the one who said SNES RPGs are crap. Sure, there are many bad RPGs for it, since there are so many (like a hundred, at least!), but there are some really awesome RPGs and I dare say SNES is the best RPG system to this day. Although Ys IV PCE beats them all (DESPITE the awful level grinding that game requires).

OldRover · 09/09/2006, 09:45 PM

I owned an SNES for its RPGs, since the hardware was too crippled to handle much else properly.

The PCE is the shooter console, plain and simple, not the RPG console.

Seldane: there are a few parts in CF2 that are quite long-feeling but most of the game moves at a pretty decent pace. A lot of people blow it out of proportion simply because the game kicks their ass and they get all pissy.

RuninRuder · 09/09/2006, 10:19 PM

Personally, I consider the Playstation(1) the system for RPGs--traditional RPGs, at least. The Duo crushes all other systems as far as action-RPGs go.

The SNES is the system for hilariously awful "special effects" and visual blunders. Falling fat men, rotating space stations, flicker-ravaged lava men... the SNES has it all!

OldRover · 09/10/2006, 05:49 AM

Any time you have a special effect, there's always going to be someone to overuse it. I think more than one developer got overzealous with the special effects of the SNES and ended up churning out a ton of cheesy-looking games. Special effects are nice when used correctly (in moderation...). I've yet to find a PCE game that overused special effects (imagine if Jackie Chan used the silhouette trick constantly...ugh).

RuninRuder · 09/10/2006, 12:37 PM

Yeah, I had this discussion with someone just the other day, in fact. Turbo/PCE/Duo games may not have been capable of the "technological wizardry" that games available on other machines of the era were, but they used their strengths optimally and discreetly. The silhouettes in Jackie Chan are neat every time I see them, just as the scrolling effects in Shape Shifter's forest and Macross 2036's "crystal" planet level are beautiful.

On the other hand, lots of SNES games "showcase" so many examples of goofy, needless "effects" (frequently crippling the action in the process) that I just end up laughing at them or getting irritated and turning them off.

grahf · 09/10/2006, 02:07 PM

Wow RuninRuder, you really really hate snes. I will agree that the mode 7 type stuff is way overused, as well as the mosiac effect (going through a keyhole in mario world/poised in FFVI). The other graphics effects can be really useful. The best thing is the transparency. It really helps add atmosphere to games such as Super Metroid, Zelda (in the forest for example).

This kinda doesnt really have anything to do with Cosmic Fantasy 2 though does it

. On that note, I started a new game finally. I just got Annie in my party, but died trying to make it through the cave. I will say that its MUCH more fun with more than 1 person in your party. The battles arent so tedious anymore.

SignOfZeta · 09/10/2006, 02:14 PM

The anti-SNES thing here is pretty wierd...

I mean, if this was 1992 and we were all 12 and our parents decided we could only have one system for XMas, I would expect this sort of..."allegiance", or whatever the hell it is, but its much later, most of us are much older, and the systems are so cheap they are basically free now.

I love the PCE. I always have. I don't go to any other console specific forums other than Neo Geo Pocket. I was always the only guy in the immediate geographical area with a "Turbo" system other than my brother, and like most of you guys I only bought EGM for the small mentionings of PCE releases from Japan. My NEC fandom is not in question.

That said, you guys talking smack about the SNES are out of your damn mind. The RPGs on the SNES are, for the most part, a lot different than the style with which PCE RPGs were made. Both systems were *excellent* for RPGs. Better than anything since. For the people that can't read Japanese the SNES is definitely the better option, although far too many good RPGs were left in Japan for both systems.

As for the special FX thing....

QuoteThe SNES is the system for hilariously awful "special effects" and visual blunders. Falling fat men, rotating space stations, flicker-ravaged lava men... the SNES has it all!

I've played a lot of SNES titles and I can say I have no fucking clue what you are even talking about. The SNES has many special FX tricks, we all know that, and they can be used very well. I fact I'd say that for the most part they were used very well. For example Macross: Scrambled valkyrie is loaded with SNES specific FX, and that game is just totally great from begining to end. The PCE Macross shooter from about that time, 2036, is also good in its own unique way. Its has a real story, and great new designs, voice acting, etc.

If you're some kind of video game equivalent of the Amish, then I guess you could argue that all of these fancy, new-fanged tricks are just the work of the devil, and don't really have anything to do with gameplay, but that's true of the SNES's eye candy as well as the long, load-happy cinema sections of PCE games. Furthermore, of the PCE had the kind of SFX that the SNES has (or any SFX to speak of...) they would be used just as often and you know it.

There are all sorts of bad game systems out there. The SNES isn't one of them, and if you think it is you need to pull your head out of your rabid fanboy ass and look around. You are only screwing the yourself by avoiding the SNES.

GUTS · 09/10/2006, 03:41 PM

SNES games for the most part are pretty sad, but there are a few good ones. Obviously you haven't played many SNES games if you haven't seen the over use of the shit SNES special effects. And for a guy who starts off comparing snes bashers to 12 year olds, you sure typed a lot for someone who is too old for console wars.

Seldane · 09/10/2006, 03:46 PM

A "few" good SNES games? There are many more high quality games on the SNES than on the PCE (or ANY other system, for that matter). No doubt about it.

SignOfZeta · 09/10/2006, 03:56 PM

Quote from: GUTSSNES games for the most part are pretty sad, but there are a few good ones. Obviously you haven't played many SNES games if you haven't seen the over use of the shit SNES special effects.

I'm pretty sure I've played all but 30-50 SNES games released world-wide. I think we just have a different idea of of what constitutes over use. I've played a lot of crap on SNES, but most of it was 3rd party American shit I don't count. "A few good games" is just....nuts. Its like saying Porsche has been know to make a few good cars.

QuoteAnd for a guy who starts off comparing snes bashers to 12 year olds, you sure typed a lot for someone who is too old for console wars.

Anyone that makes non-sensical statements about such things has the air of someone who is proud of the only choice they could have made. Twleve year olds have no money, usually only get one system per generation, and many times turn into huge advocates of that system for no reason other than the fact that that's the one they have...which is a lame reason. Its pretty much like patriotism (ie: stupid).

I was trying to level the playing field, to defuse what has become silly. Its pretty easy for some tool to say that Bonk's Revenge is a better game than Yoshi's Island, but it usually takes more typing to prove that that guy has the asthetic sense of a Chia Pet collector.

The SNES is one of the greatest systems ever, IMO the greatest system ever. If you feel otherwise perhaps you should have bought Uniracers, or Yoshi's Island instead of Mortal Kombat, and Charles Barcley's Shut Up and Jam.

If you want to talk about how much the N64, the greatest disapointment in gaming history, totally sucks, overuses its FX, etc then I'll join right in with you. That thing was terrible.

SignOfZeta · 09/10/2006, 04:05 PM

Quote from: SeldaneA "few" good SNES games? There are many more high quality games on the SNES than on the PCE (or ANY other system, for that matter). No doubt about it.

Well from a pure percentage standpoint, most games on most systems are shit. The PS probably has 40-50 good games, more than I'll ever really have time to play, but there are probably about 2000 PS releases, making the majority of the library total crap.

After all, Midway, Acclaim, etc all made SNES games, lots of them, and nearly all were junk.

The systems that avoid bloatware the best are usually ones with very small game libraries, and very little 3rd party support. The Neo Geo for example only has 2 or 3 total crap releases, but that's because the entire library is mostly either 1st party, or very very close 3rd party.

The Neo Geo Pocket from what I've seen only has one bad game (Dive Alert) and a bunch of Pachi-slot shit that doesn't even count, IMO.

The PCE has a pretty incredible quality ratio considering all the non-Hudson releases. PCE 3rd parties were the most original I can think of. Technos, and Naxat, those kind of companies. I miss that sort of development ethic.

RuninRuder · 09/10/2006, 04:26 PM

GUTS, I agree with you 100%. There are a few really good games that I keep my SNES around for, but for the most part, it's a useless machine. PCE Duo and Genesis both annihilate it.

TurboXray · 09/10/2006, 05:08 PM

I'll chime in with this-

While I wasn't 12 when the snes came out in the US (15) and the effects were impressive for the first run on games. I had a GEN, Duo, and SNES systems. But it became apparent that the snes could so easily handle transparency layers, multiple BGs(up 4), and scaling/rotation that it just wasn't thrilling to see SNES do these effects anymore. It had an over saturation effect on me. I think this is what Nod is refering to. It's akin to watch the PS1 do the same effects and going, "wow!". The real special effect for the SNES was keeping it from slowing down and I'm serious when I say this. The only reason I beat Super EDF because one the weapons would cause slow down in the game by 70%.

Ratio wise the snes had more crap that good, but the snes did have a good amount of great games. Off the top of my head: Actraiser, FFVI, FFIV, Contra, Zelda(very little FX but ver fun game), Chrono Trigger, Lagoon, UN Squadron, Super Ghouls and Ghost, Super Mario World, Mystical Ninja, Ys III(Better than the MD version), Castlevania IV, Cybernator.

The more crap that came out for the SNES, the more I turned to import for the Duo. Genesis also follow this trend - Greendog, Verter Man(s), etc.

Seldane · 09/10/2006, 06:20 PM

I agree that there are many terrible SNES games, but there are many terrible games on every system (especially the PS1). The SNES was the biggest system on the market (by far!) and therefore it got a lot of games, so it is not surprising that there were many bad games released for it.

You can't compare game libraries by "ratio", because even if 99% of the SNES library sucks, that remaining 1% is still at least ten times bigger than the PCE's "good games" ratio.

However, both the PC Engine and the Mega Drive (especially the PC Engine) has games much worse than the worst SNES games. Games so bad that I just find it incredible that they actually got released.. or even developed! Look at "Basted" for example - it looks like someone's first attempt at making something in Basic. That game is just so insanely bad I can't express myself!

Try playing Basted. Just for laughs, or possibly a heart attack. It is by far the worst game I have ever played. For any platform. Even Minesweeper looks better graphically than that game.

Also: when I got my PC Engine system, my first feeling was disappointment. I realized there were only like ten must-play games on the system (must-play, not decent which seems to what most "good" PC Engine games appear to be. Look at Cosmic Fantasy 2, for example). When I got my second SNES (last year), the first feeling I had was excitement: now I can play all those hundreds (exaggeration) of awesome SNES games again! Fantastic! (I had a similiar feeling when I finally got around to modding my Mega Drive so that I could play imported games.)

RuninRuder · 09/10/2006, 07:28 PM

Basted was ahead of its time.

It had one town and, essentially, one maze (only the one leading to the last boss is really any kind of "dungeon"). Yet, it had a heavy focus on plot and cinematics. The cinemas were actually exceptional (the ones later in the game, that is--the ones early on were merely solid for the most part).

In this respect, it was a parody of the story-heavy, gameplay-light RPGs that dominate the marketplace today--and, of course, it was released before modern RPGs were EVEN MADE.

Thanks to such forethought on behalf of Basted's designers, we can confidently say that the work they put in was worthwhile. It served a purpose in the annals of gaming history. It's something unique: a parody of what was yet to come.

(Plus, the story is actually rather nice.)

Stuff like Zelda III, on the other hand, served no purpose and has no reason to still exist in this universe.

OldRover · 09/10/2006, 07:56 PM

Lots of people with lots of different opinions and ideas on what makes a great system. The key issue here is that you'll never be able to convince anyone otherwise...console loyalty is a religion in and of itself and like all religions, you cannot convince someone else that your idea is better than theirs.

An example: I found Zelda III to be one of the most fun games I've ever played. The storyline was crude and clichéd, Link looked like a drunken fat bastard, Zelda looked like a poorly-pixelled box of crackers, most of the enemies were lucky to have 3 frames per direction, the music was mostly forgettable, but the game was fun regardless and had tons of replay value...I still play it thru from time to time just for nostalgia's sake.

Seldane · 09/10/2006, 08:30 PM

Quote from: runinruderStuff like Zelda III, on the other hand, served no purpose and has no reason to still exist in this universe.

So that's why it is regarded as one of the best games in history, because it served no purpose? If you had actually played it instead of looking at screenshots (because it isn't that pretty), you'd know that it is very close to perfection for a 2D game. Zelda A Link to the Past is by far the most entertaining game I have ever played. The replay value is just incredible.

OldRover · 09/10/2006, 08:37 PM

I don't know if it could be called one of the greatest games in history, but it was definately a lot of fun and had high replayability, mainly because it was interesting (despite the sucky storyline) and wasn't too short and wasn't too long.

Emerald Rocker · 09/10/2006, 08:51 PM

I thought Zelda 3 was considered one of the best games because it happened to be a top-selling game on the top-selling system of the time. Luck, man, luck!

Anyways. Runinruder's defense of Basted sounded pretty tongue-in-cheek to me, so it's silly to get so worked up about it... although I agree that Basted is actually very fun and playable, as far as "bad" games go.

Compare that to stuff like Brainlord (SNES) and Lagoon (SNES), which aren't fun at all. If you step outside of RPGs, then there's Mo Hawk and Headphone Jack (SNES), which is far worse than Turbo/PCE duds like Keith Courage and Legion.

For me, the SNES was a system of disappointments. Zelda 3 was OK, but I'd say Ys has more replay value. How can I say that? Easy -- I've actually replayed Ys.

Joe Redifer · 09/10/2006, 09:02 PM

Hell I've played through both Shenmue 1 and 2 more times each than I've played through Zelda 3. I still like Zelda 3, though.

RuninRuder · 09/10/2006, 09:13 PM

Ironically, I enjoyed Basted enough to play through it twice, while I've guided drunken, oafish Link through the junkyard that is Zelda III only once.

SignOfZeta · 09/10/2006, 09:18 PM

I actually like Link's Awakening more than Link to the Past. Wind Waker is my favorite though.