Why the PCE? Why Not the Genesis or SNES???

[SuperDeadite]

Maybe this will help explain things. 

Lol what?  I love how they say the PCE isn't a real 16bit system.  Even though by that very same logic the Genesis also isn't truly 16bit.  As both systems are technically half 8bit and half 16bit.  And both systems run circles around the SNES speed wise.

But what I've never understood is why anyone cares about the bits.  So many people are quick to point out the PCE's 8bit cpu.  But who cares?  How is having an 8bit cpu a negative?  PCE has tons of great games so we play them.  I've never understood the world's insistence on trashing the Turbo.  There are tons of great games, and for what it's worth the PCE destroyed the MegaDrive in Japan.

[soop]

not so much mate

Ah well.  It's been a while.  Over 10 years actually, but now I have a SNES again!

[grahf]

Maybe this isn't the thread for it, but I have to tell "My Turbo story" before explaining why I like the PCE:

I had a Turbo back in the early 90s, and I thought it was a piece of shit. At that point the Genesis was already popular, and the SNES had just been released with Super Mario World, Zelda - A Link to the Past, etc. I was also really into RPGs at the time, since as a po' boy, they offered the best bang for the buck.  Anyways, me and my brother picked up a used Turbo with Keith Courage. I also got Dragon Spirit a few days later. I was 100% underwhelmed. It seemed like nothing more than an NES with slightly more colors, and the games I saw all looked really simplistic and lacked depth. Those are not the worst games on the system, but they didn't help my first impression of the machine. My mother actually bought me Ys Book 1&2 for it, except that I couldn't play it because it required the CD add-on (which I didn't know existed until then). I found out the cost of the CD add-on, and promptly gave up on it and traded it in. It was just too expensive an upgrade.

About 6 years ago, I discovered Dracula X while looking up Castlevania 3 info on the internet. I was extremely surprised to find out that the PC Engine, the brother of the ill-fated Turbo, was actually a popular machine in Japan. After trying Dracula X out on Magic Engine, I was completely blown away that such a thing was possible on the lowly machine I had traded in all those years ago. I sampled a bunch of other CD games, and knew I had to own one.

I like the fact that the games are uncensored (Snatcher, Shin Megami Tensei, etc) and there is a lot of weird and unique stuff on the PCE that you can't find on other systems. The Megadrive and SNES were mainly targeted at kids, as was the PC Engine, but you can definitely tell that NEC wanted to appeal to a wider audience. Which includes crappy karaoke disks, unfortunately

[TurboXray]

I got my TG16 shortly before I got a Genesis (but I was playing a Genesis at a friends house). Those two systems were my favorites. Though, I always had more of a soft spot for the TG16 since I got that first. Coming from a NES, the graphic and games were incredible. Even the 'lowly' Keith Courage was impressive looking at the time. And Blazing Lazers and Rtype, the TG16 was incredible.

 I was hyped at first when the SNES came out, but that wore off quickly. I never really got excited about games for it. Sure, I had fun playing some of the great titles on the system - but other than a few, I never had the same level of anticipation that I had waiting for TG16 (and Genesis) games. Zelda was great. SCVI was great. SGnG was great. FF2US was awesome. FF3US was great. SMW was fun. But... other than those, I wasn't particularly interested in the system. I played and beat other games, of course. Secret of Mana was a nice surprise. My brother bought the game and I got a change to beat it. It was fun, but I never raved over it like other Square fanboi's did. And I'm probably the only person on the planet that doesn't think Chrono Trigger is all that great. Waaaaay over hyped. It was fun, but it wasn't fantastic. I really disliked how the story jumped around. And yes, I played it back in the day. I also didn't care for Super Mario RPG.
 
 I loved seeing the TG16's potential being shown in titles like GOT, LOT, or Spriggan, Rayxanber 3, Emerald Dragon. I loved the style of games that came out on the Genesis. Both were so different than the SNES. SNES had the pretty graphics, but the games just weren't overly exciting to me. I dunno. Something was just missing.

[OldRover]

I never got into Chrono Trigger either... it was just dull and uninspired. My SNES "collection of faves" is pretty small... SMW, Phalanx, Super Turrican, LttP, Illusion Of Gaia, FF3US, Hyperzone, Actraiser 1 & 2, F-Zero. I like Plok but only for the music... the gameplay stinks... same with SNES DOOM. My collection of Genesis faves is a little smaller... Sonic 1, 2 & CD, Streets Of Rage, Jewel Master, Batman, Phantasy Star IV, Lunar, Castle Of Illusion, and Vay. And despite its hideous technical flaws, I somehow still like Chakan. My list of PCE/TG16 faves is extremely long and dwarfs both others of the era... Neutopia 1 & 2, Bonk 1 thru 3, Air Zonk, Blazing Lazers, GoT, LoT, Legendary Axe II, Dead Moon, Parasol Stars, Cadash, Turrican, Cosmic Fantasy 2, Silent Debuggers, Exile 1 & 2, Splatterhouse, Sinistron, Sidearms, Fantasy Zone, etc etc etc etc... the list goes on and on. Even though many of them are not exclusives, I feel that the PCE has the best particular versions of said non-exclusives.

[esteban]

I suppose some of you have limited your discussion to 16-bit only, but here is the hierarchy of love in my heart:

1) NES / Famicom
2) TG-16 / PCE
3) SNES / Genesis (tie. they both have great stuff, I could never put one above the other)

I played all the pre-bit (Atari VCS, etc.),  8-bit and 16-bit consoles back in the day (eventually, my brothers and I owned them all, too).

Then I became less interested in video games and more interested in COLLEGE. I still played, but not nearly as much. And I only purchased a few games a year.

Then, my younger brother got me back into video games at the tail-end of the 90's, and I am glad he did.

First NES
I used to spend a lot of time discussing NES/Famicom. It was easy to discuss NES/Famicom, because a lot of people were familiar with the libraries, and it seemed that there was a healthy group of "gurus" that I could learn from (they were familiar with obscure trivia, for example). Unfortunately, the folks I enjoyed conversing with eventually scattered into the ether.

PCE
The few TG-16 games I never played in the early 90's re-kindled my interest in TG-16. Then, at some point, I realized that I was pretty clueless about the breadth of the PCE library. I was well-versed in the POPULAR Japanese titles (Dracula X) and all the shoot-em-ups, but I didn't fully understand how much PURE AWESOME was waiting for me in PCE-Land. This was wonderful, because it breathed new life into the TG-16 universe.


Underdog
The reason why the TG-16 has a special place in my heart is because it was the underdog, and I am glad I took a chance on it (Sega Genesis, and later SNES would have been much more frugal choices). I was intrigued with the bizarre CD-ROM peripheral and the early CD-ROM games.

I could always play Nintendo and Sega consoles with friends/family (everyone had either one or the other). Nobody had TG-16, and I was just too damn curious about it.

[ddd1234]

I never got into Chrono Trigger either... it was just dull and uninspired.

Man...That's a scary thought. Maybe you didn't spend too much time with it?
The story picks up in the future part of the game.
Moreover, do try Dynamite headdy,fire shark,elemental master,vectorman for the genesis. They are some of my favorites for the system.
As for Snes, give Skyblazer, Demon's crest a look.

Also, I am wondering, which system gives you the best picture quality?
Duo? Duo R? Are they S-video compatible?

[ddd1234]

The reason why the TG-16 has a special place in my heart is because it was the underdog, and I am glad I took a chance on it (Sega Genesis, and later SNES would have been much more frugal choices). I was intrigued with the bizarre CD-ROM peripheral and the early CD-ROM games.

Yeah...one of the reasons why i find this system appealing.

[spenoza]

All this discussion makes me wonder if things would have been much different at all if the PCE had featured even double the anemic amount of main RAM it's equipped with.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I liked all the systems....

Some of the RPGs on SNES had a strange vibe that I really liked.  7th Saga, Brainlord, Lufia, and Secret of Mana were very atmospheric games.  also, Illusion of Gaia was amazing.

It was a great RPG system, especially considering the PCE didn't get a ton of english RPGs compared to the Japanese library..., which sucks.  If we'd have gotten the ENTIRE Cosmic Fantasy series, that would have been good....

Emerald Dragon wasn't translated, La Valeur, Anearth... we got kinda frikkin jipped really.

So at the time, if I wanted to play RPGs, I turned to the Genesis and SNES........... which is ironic, since the PCE's library does really destroy the two of them as far as RPGs go.

growing up, I only played US Turbo Grafx HuCards..........so RPGs weren't really happening.  Order of the Griffon was ok.  But when you have the entire Goldbox collection, all the Ultimas, and Wizardries and M&Ms for PC, it aint so hot.

[TheClash603]

My list of PCE/TG16 faves...Turrican, Silent Debuggers, etc etc etc etc... the list goes on and on.

Really?  The rest of your list was so good!

[Arkhan Asylum]

Turrican sucks a fat dick.

/thread.

[awack]

If they stuck with hucards longer than they did, then yes, 8KB is just to low for uncompressing allot of graphics.


I just spent a good part of last week playing the most impressive games on each system(with the exception of rendering ranger for the snes), actual console, composite video.

Best graphics: Beyond Shadowgate, unparalleled detail, lots of color in the BGs, tons of animation, very high resolution, standard horizontal res for pce and snes games is 256, standard/high res for genesis is 320...Shadowgates horizontal res is 352 which means every thing looks great on an actual TV.

Other great looking games: Seiken Densetsu 3 for the snes and Flink for the genesis.

Best animation: Saphire...believe it or not, Rondo has more frames (actual unique frames) than Sapphire but the type of animation and size of the spites and tiles(for some bosses) that animate, are what make the difference.

Other games with good animation: Donkey Kong Country, Earth Worm Jim, Rondo, Toy Story, Fatal fury special(ACD)

best special fx: Rondo, frames, and art, make them the best in my oppinion, they are still being used to this very day...this isn't mode 7, this is beautifully hand drawn animation.


best fmv: Silpheed.


best 3D: either Starfox or Virtual racing.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I was always floored by the stuff in Flashback and Out Of this world.

The goony 3D stuff.  It really made me erect at the young age of ~10.

Flashback style games are fun.  I always wanted to make one but to me making the physics is a pain in the ass.  Its very strange movement to me.  Like prince of Persia.

[Tatsujin]

yeah, 3D on 16Bit (in 16bit times) > 3D on 32bit (in 32bit times). at least for most of the games.

I have played uncoutable hours of Starglider II. it was the ultimate 3D expierence.

[Otaking]

Started reading this thread then had stop a few posts in as can not abide anyone who doesn't accept the epic greatness of the SFC/SNES  
I raise arm, lift hand, rotate hand 180°, hold palm to sfc haters face, turn head, then walk away....

 

[Tatsujin]

was that a serious post?

[ddd1234]

Turrican sucks a fat dick.

/thread.

That is not right! In fact, there are lots of good Turrican games out there.

I would recommend Mega Turrican/Turrican 3 for you.

[Otaking]

was that a serious post?

Mostly joking, hence the smiley at the bottom of the post. 

I got as far in the topic as

The SNES is cool, too, but it just isn't as interesting for some reason I can't put my finger on.

then had to stop reading...


I really do the love the SFC, I'm a total FanBoy, I think it has a huge selection of incredible games.

I'd personaly rank:

1: SFC

2: PCE , very close between PCE and SFC. SFC pips it only due to Shigeru Miyamoto's games.

3: NEO GEO .... Last Resort for the win!

4: Megadrive


everyone has different tastes and points of view I guess,
A similar example if I was reading a thread and I read someone saying they don't really like PCE Dracula X or Winds/Gate of Thunder... just makes me think R-TARDed, epic fail.
 

[Arkhan Asylum]

Turrican sucks a fat dick.

/thread.

That is not right! In fact, there are lots of good Turrican games out there.

I would recommend Mega Turrican/Turrican 3 for you.

I spent a period of time wondering why the hell people loved turrican so much, so I literally played every version of it ever, on every platform.

I still think the games retarded.

The C64 one has awesome music though, so thats the best one if you ask me

Turrican 2's bass lines are mad phat

[Firebomber7]

I like the SNES a lot, I think it has a great library.

The Genesis on the other hand is a bit of a different story, the Genesis had a fairly diverse library of games being released between 1989 and 1992, after that the Genesis library became overrun with 1. Ports of games that were better on SNES 2. Sports games 3. Sega first party games which varied wildly in quality.

Simply put, for the Genesis there's not enough unique software on the system for it to have any major advantage over the TG16 in my book.

Added in edit: The PC Engine itself has another huge draw which is it has a lot of games that quite frankly I've not played. I was a huge gamer in the 16-bit era, I subscribed to lots of game mags. Most Super Famicom and Genesis games worth owning made their way to the US. The PC Engine and TG16 have vastly differing libraries which leaves more to be discovered.

Also the library suits my "likes" as far as gaming goes. My three favorite Genres are J-RPGs, Platformers and Shmups. Two of the three are well represented on the PCE .

I have to completely agree with this. I was pretty heavy into gaming during the 16-bit era, and owned a Genesis, Sega CD and SNES back in the day. I had played a Turbografx-16 and knew of the PC Engine, but almost nobody I knew had one. The only games I had a chance to play was Keith Courage and Bonk's Adventure. That was it. None of the movie/game rental shops carried TG-16 games, just NES, SMS, Genesis, Sega CD, SNES, etc.

In the mid-late 90s, I discovered emulators and roms. I got into NES, Gameboy and Genesis roms quickly... mostly playing Phantasy Star IV and Shining Force II, which, ironically, were games I owned anyway. The novelty of playing them on my computer and not taking up the family TV was awesome. Of course, by this time, rental shops had moved on to the 3DO, Saturn, PS1 and N64. Although I had a Saturn and PS1, I LOVED having a way to try out all of the games I'd missed earlier, or wanted to play more but didn't have access to.

Thanks to Harry Tuttle's website, "The Dump", it wasn't long before I was diving into the TG-16/PC Engine library (why was the TG-16 the ONLY system where you had to pay for the emulator???). All of those games that I'd read about in Gamepro and EGM were at my disposal, and then some! Well, the HuCard games anyway. I finally got to spend some quality time with the Bonk games. I saw how awesome Devil's Crush was. I had fun on Blazing Lasers. I discovered that the NES didn't have the best version of Life Force, but wondered why it was called Salamander in Japan. I discovered how different JJ&Jeff was from Kato&Ken. I realized how sad the SMS version of R-Type was when compared to the awesome TG-16 version. WOW, it was a whole new world of 16-bit games that I'd missed right there for me to play!

Later on, I moved to Japan. I had a modded X-Box with all the emulators on it, as well as a PS3 when it came out. I was spending a lot of time playing MAME games on the X-Box mostly. I mostly hung out in the PS2/3 section of game shops. Then, a boxed Sega Saturn caught my eye for just 3000yen ($30). I bought it, along with about 30 games at a few yen each. The bill came to about 5000yen. Not bad, I thought. Just two years later... I had every retro system and most every retro game I'd ever wanted. Which 16-bit system came out as my favourite out of the bunch?

[Tatsujin]

NEO GEO .... Last Resort for the win!

WÖRD!

[Tatsujin]

Turrican sucks a fat dick.

/thread.

That is not right! In fact, there are lots of good Turrican games out there.

I would recommend Mega Turrican/Turrican 3 for you.

I spent a period of time wondering why the hell people loved turrican so much, so I literally played every version of it ever, on every platform.

I still think the games retarded.

The C64 one has awesome music though, so thats the best one if you ask me

Turrican 2's bass lines are mad phat

I think the two first Turricans on the Amiga had de best music blasts!! c64 had a very great pre-intro & intro tune but only had ingame music in those flying stages, which was kind a bummer. It sounded great. ramiro did a great job.

[TurboXray]

All this discussion makes me wonder if things would have been much different at all if the PCE had featured even double the anemic amount of main RAM it's equipped with.

Double? It was originally designed for 4 times the amount it has now. It has mapped space for a 32k sram chip. But since there are no upper address lines, it just wraps and mirrors the single 8k sram 4 times. Why? Because they're assholes ;) The SGX has the single 32k ram chip there. And there's no way to 'turn it off'. Even if you set the compatibility switch to PCE mode on the SGX, the full amount of RAM is there. Thus, you can always detect if you're running on an SGX or not, regardless of the compatibility switch.

[OldMan]

Thanks to Harry Tuttle's website, "The Dump",

Oh my God! Someone else remembers "The Dump". I must have scanned half my collection for Harry. Wish he could see me now, churning out games for his beloved turbo....

Wait. You actually paid for magic engine? I lived with the demo for a looooong time. Was the only way I could play my turbo games, as the young 'uns kept the Tube tied up with their new-fangled Geney-sis and N64, then later their playstations and xboxes.
Good Times....

[OldMan]

It has mapped space for a 32k sram chip. But since there are no upper address lines, it just wraps and mirrors the single 8k sram 4 times. Why?

Because 32K Chips were VERY expensive..... I know I paid $100+ for a 32K upgrade (2 x (4k x 4bit chips) - that's 16Kbits per chip, by 2 chips) for another computer around that time. And that was split across 2 smaller chips. No one was using 32K chips because of the price. And 32Kx8 bits was unheard of back then - After all :"Who needs more than 640K?"

How much time passed before the SGX came out? Even in 6 months, there was a lot of changes (see moore's law) back then. And as chip sizes went up, prices went down. They still do.

[spenoza]

I spent a period of time wondering why the hell people loved turrican so much, so I literally played every version of it ever, on every platform.

I still think the games retarded.

I don't know about retarded, but I do agree that something feels off about the Turrican games. They could have been fun with some gameplay tweaks, but they just weren't there for me.

That said, I'll have to disagree with you on Illusion of Gaia. I found it to be pretty thin. Here's my opinion on the game circa 7 years ago: http://www.gamefaqs.com/snes/588383-illusion-of-gaia/reviews/review-71991

[TurboXray]

It has mapped space for a 32k sram chip. But since there are no upper address lines, it just wraps and mirrors the single 8k sram 4 times. Why?

Because 32K Chips were VERY expensive..... I know I paid $100+ for a 32K upgrade (2 x (4k x 4bit chips) - that's 16Kbits per chip, by 2 chips) for another computer around that time. And that was split across 2 smaller chips. No one was using 32K chips because of the price. And 32Kx8 bits was unheard of back then - After all :"Who needs more than 640K?"

How much time passed before the SGX came out? Even in 6 months, there was a lot of changes (see moore's law) back then. And as chip sizes went up, prices went down. They still do.

Consumer market prices for ram upgrades weren't the same as a large company like NEC setting up a deal to purchase a large supply of ram chips.

 Almost a year to date, the Megadrive debuted with 64k of system ram (two 32Kx8bit). Besides, the VDCs in the PCE itself used a pair of 32Kx8bit sram (no vram) chips for its 32Kword memory. Hell, /RDY is there on the 6280 (except the cart port). They could have easily used cheaper DRAM + a controller. The early CDROM addon modules supposedly uses DRAM for the onboard 64k of CD RAM (dunno about ADPCM ram - two 64Kx4bit IIRC). The SCD upgrade cards probably uses 32Kx8bit sram too (along with one 128Kx8bit). I know the Arcade card Pro does as I recently took it apart (1x HM628128ALT7 and 2x 84256A-70LL). Though I've been told the later Duo models uses a single 256k sram chip (makes sense). Anyway, they were already using 32Kx8bit chips for the VDC, so they had a supplier and a better setup to buy in larger bulk to keep costs down. Cutting system ram ended up biting them in the ass IMO. More ram means less decompression on the fly and more free cpu resource (cached tiles/sprites), and more advanced compression schemes to make up for the smaller hucard sizes. Populous was the only hucard game to get a ram upgrade (32k too). IMO, their first mistake was cutting the ram size down to 8k, 2nd) only giving 64k of ram for the CD addon, 3rd) only giving an additional 192k of ram for the SCD upgrade card. They seriously over compensated with the arcade card, but it was too late by then. Core system should have been 32k, CD addon 128k, SCD addon 256k additional minimum (384k optimal for a total of 512k). I mean, you have RPGs on this new SCD upgrade with black back grounds and no enemy animation. And some SCD RPGs even loaded enemies from the CD on every encounter. The PCE just spent most its life under ram'd.

 I personally think they underplayed the hucard games while they readied the CD unit. That's probably why it got cut in the ram department. If for some reason they needed more ram later on, you can always provided it via the hucard pcb. Except, the screwed up on the CD base ram. If the original system had the 32k of system ram, the 64k wouldn't have been as bad. Though 128k is still would it should have started off with regardless. The original PCE VDCs are setup for 128k of sram too. But only 64k was installed. If they went that route, the 8k system ram wouldn't have been much of a problem (you'd have more than enough vram to cache sprite frames and tiles). Funny, the SGX technically has 128k of vram and 32k of system ram. They get that right, and it flops. Figures...

[Tatsujin]

I remember paying around 100 bucks for a 512KB RAM upgrade for my Amiga in like 1989. Or was that a different type of RAM?

video RAM not equal system RAM?

[SignOfZeta]

Yoshi's island

Maybe this is one of those games that you need to play for a while to appreciate, but I really don't like it.  The worst sound in the entire world is that of a crying baby and this game has it in spades, decreasing the enjoyment substantially because of that sound effect alone.

I love Yoshi's Island. It is, IMO, the greatest game of all time. It has no flaws.

What about the annoying baby crying, you say?

Don't you see? That's just one more reason its perfect. You only hear the kid when you are lose him. Play better, ie: don't lose him, and you won't hear him scream. Does his scream have to be that annoying? Fuck yes! You'd just let Koopa keep him if he wasn't so damned irritating. The way it is you learn to grab his ass and put him back on the saddle in less than a second, once you get good at the game. Sure its not fun to hear him cry, and its not fun to put more quarters into a Metal Slug machine either. That's what drives you to get better at the game.

Its the same mechanism that evolution built into actual human babies so that their parents wouldn't ignore them. Its fucking genius.

[SignOfZeta]

I remember paying around 100 bucks for a 512KB RAM upgrade for my Amiga in like 1989. Or was that a different type of RAM?

video RAM not equal system RAM?

When I doubled the RAM in my Mac SE to a then large 1MB it cost...I don't remember. It was fabulously expensive though. Several hundred bucks, at least. The optional 20MB HD was a grand (actually more, since that model was minus a FD).

I'm sure if I were buying the same amount of memory for an AT clone it would have been cheaper that Apple's official stuff (of course, it also would have been useless).

My point is that the price of raw memory is only a single factor. You also have to consider who sold it, how it was packaged, how many people bought it in that packaged form, etc.

[Gogan]

Everyone has great stories here, I personally liked TG/PCE, aside from the great library, was the sheer underdog status. You never saw a bigger selection at game stores than geny/snes etc. You never saw more reviews/ads in game mags. You never saw more ppl with a TG, if any!

I did enjoy the others, but they utterly failed when compared to TG. my bro had a Genny bitd, and he'd b playing Growl. I'd laugh at him and go back in my room to play Bloody Wolf.

TG/PCE is just the bees fuckin' knees

[OldRover]

Man...That's a scary thought. Maybe you didn't spend too much time with it?
The story picks up in the future part of the game.

Capture my interest from the opening moment or lose my interest forever. I played this game for two hours and it was a snorefest the whole time.

Dynamite headdy

*yawn*

fire shark

Booooring.

elemental master

Ugh.

vectorman

Overhyped snorefest.

Skyblazer

Gross.

Demon's crest

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I am very picky.

[TurboXray]

video RAM not equal system RAM?

The term vram is used loosely. Most will say that it originally meant dual ported ram (you can it has two buses) - thus video circuit and cpu can both access it at the same time. In reality, most video systems in the 80s and 90s didn't use dual port ram. They used normal sram or dram (some used double speed ram and just interleaved access of two devices). When ram is specific to the video processor (and usually isolated, but not always), it's referred to vram to keep the description in context. SRAM is more expensive than DRAM, but it is faster (and was by a lot back then) and very simple to setup. DRAM is slower, though might be fast enough for what you need, but requires special controller logic and has refresh periods (no access time). It introduces timing issues that might cause problems with some designs or just make it rather complex in design.

 I remember reading the original Atari ST lines of computers uses 150ns DRAM. And that 68k was 8mhz vs the Amiga's 7.01mhz (PAL). I wouldn't doubt it was about that speed for the Amiga as well.

[ddd1234]

Could EGM be the cause of TG16's demise?

I mean their ratings for some of the better TG16 games were just unfair.

For example, Super star soldier got 6.5/10, Soldier blade got 6/10, Terraforming got 4/10, Super Air zonk got 5.5/10, Buster bros got 5.5/10.

This mag was very harsh towards the Turbo.

I will scan the ratings and post em here sometime.

But, I did appropriate Gamepro's ratings, they were great at reviewing turbo games. However I did not like their review of Ys 3, which scored a 3.0 for the fun factor.

[soop]

The one copy of EGM I had didn't have scores at all, but it was a crappy publication.

[Mathius]

I loved EGM bitd! But, I will say that if they gave the Turbo as much coverage as they did the PC Engine things may have changed a little.

I still blame the Turbo's demise on NEC Japan and their marketing strategy.

[nat]

Could EGM be the cause of TG16's demise?

I mean their ratings for some of the better TG16 games were just unfair.

For example, Super star soldier got 6.5/10, Soldier blade got 6/10, Terraforming got 4/10, Super Air zonk got 5.5/10, Buster bros got 5.5/10.

This mag was very harsh towards the Turbo.

In this context, I disagree completely.

Super Star Soldier - 6.5? This is a bit generous, in my opinion.

Soldier Blade - 6.0? I'll give you this one, Soldier Blade should be an 8 or 9.

Terraforming - 4.0? Probably a perfect score. If Terraforming had the gameplay to match the visuals, it'd be a 10. As it stands, it looks good, but no one's home.

Super Air Zonk - 5.5? Probably another perfect score.

Buster Bros. is the only game here I can't comment on, as I haven't played it beyond the five seconds I used to test out my copy when I bought it.

Based on these games alone, I'd say EGM was very fair in their ratings... Look, there are tons of great games in the US TurboGrafx-16 library. There are multitudes more, however, in the Japanese library that never even got a chance domestically. The TurboGrafx failed because NEC failed in one key area: understanding the American market.

[Otaking]

Super star soldier got 6.5/10

eerrr.. no

Soldier blade got 6/10

WTF

Electronic Gayming Monthly

[ddd1234]

@Nat

Ooh come on...what's wrong with Super Star Soldier?

I believe it deserves a 8.5/10. It's a addicting shooter, But too easy to finish.  

Terraforming is 5.5/10 for me, Great graphics, music and slightly above average game play.

Super Air Zonk deserves 8/10....It may not have the flashy effects, But i find the game play more addicting than the first part.

[Otaking]

what's wrong with Super Star Soldier?

I believe it deserves a 8.5/10

agreed, maybe even higher, somewhere around 8.5/10 to 9/10

[ddd1234]

I actually find SSS to be better than Soldier blade in terms of playability.

[Otaking]

I believe it deserves a 8.5/10. It's a addicting shooter, But too easy to finish.

Just seen the edited post, "too easy to finish", not sure about this?
Some of the criticism of the game has been its hard difficulty in later levels.
I'm not saying I agree that it's overly difficult, in fact I think the difficulty curve is perfect.

That's my only big criticism for Final Soldier it's just far too easy.

[ddd1234]

Well, I am not sure about other people's experience.

But i was able to beat SSS on my 2nd go without losing more than 1 life.

[nat]

In my opinion, SSS is boring, uninspired, ugly, derivative and.... boring. It's not the worst shooter on the system (or even close), but it's totally eclipsed by Blazing Lazers and the rest of the Soldier series.

[Otaking]

But i was able to beat SSS on my 2nd go without losing more than 1 life.

it's definitely the hardest to beat out of the four PCE Soldier games, and it's harder than GunHed.
did you beat those other games too in around the same time?

[Arkhan Asylum]

save state + reset after timer expires!

WOO!

[TurboXray]

In my opinion, SSS is boring, uninspired, ugly, derivative and.... boring. It's not the worst shooter on the system (or even close), but it's totally eclipsed by Blazing Lazers and the rest of the Soldier series.

Heh, I feel the complete opposite. BL was awesome, no doubt. But it wasn't perfect. I like BL's graphics (it has that original TG16 release look), but SSS definitely had more correct /updated graphics for the time. More use of shades, more moving parts on the bosses, etc. The music was nice too, though overall BL has the better sound track. But I never thought SSS's sound track sucked. I rather liked it. I just wish it had a little more bass (ok, a lot!) to it and it's samples/explosions. I also liked all the different range/looks/styles of the levels and new weapons of SSS. For me, SSS was harder than BL. Well, it took me longer to beat it then BL. Soldier Blade being the hardest of the three. I'll never understand the low opinion some people have of SSS. If you liked BL better, SSS was still a great game when it was released.

 I would have loved a SCD release of SSS with a red book audio sound track. That would have been awesome.

 Also, EGM was waaaay pro Sega (16bit). Often belittled the TG16 IMO. But I still read every issue. I usually ignored the reviews and just looked over the game spreads (or whatever you call them). I clearly remember the issue that showed off Cosmic Fantasy 2 cinema shots. I couldn't believe it! No 'jaggies/edgies' like Last Alert or Valis II. Very highly anticipated TGCD game for me BITD. I think Ys III got some low scores ranging of 5-6 range. But that game was fantastic fun from start to finish. Fuck EGM reviewers.

[Tatsujin]

For me very clear:

SB > SSS >>> FS

And Gunhed is no part of the soldier serie, nor is it intended to be one.

But we had this discussion in so many other threads already. there is even a deticated thread with a poll for the soldier serie.

[TurboXray]

Ok, whatever crack someone must have slipped into my food at some point today... has apparently worn off. (Thank god)

 I retract my statement of SSS. Having just replayed through the entire game after making that post - SSS is 6.5 or 7 easily. BL is a 9 or 9.5.

 SSS has some great parts, but they are very little. I guess my memory got the best of me on that one, because that's all I seemed to have allowed myself to remember of the game. There are lots of boring parts in between. I like most of the bosses and mini boss of SSS. I like some of the art work, of what little there is really (cause it's damn repetitive). It would have been a lot better if they just made all the stages half as long (at minimum, maybe some even shorter). Gotta go with Nat on this one.