Game Sack

jtucci31 · 03/15/2015, 08:10 PM

Quote from: Mzo on 03/15/2015, 06:59 PMI never want to hear about Super Metroid from anyone else ever again. It's like listening to a song from Nirvana's Nevermind. I know it's good, but I can't anymore.

That aside, great video.

Yeah, fuck Nirvana!

Medic_wheat · 03/15/2015, 08:28 PM

Quote from: guest on 03/15/2015, 08:10 PM
Quote from: Mzo on 03/15/2015, 06:59 PMI never want to hear about Super Metroid from anyone else ever again. It's like listening to a song from Nirvana's Nevermind. I know it's good, but I can't anymore.

That aside, great video.
Yeah, fuck Nirvana!

BigusSchmuck · 03/15/2015, 08:54 PM

Fausette Armor? Popful Mail? The Guardian Legend? Cotton? Magical Chase? Hmm... Sounds to me there is enough to get a follow up episode going.

poponon · 03/15/2015, 09:02 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 03/15/2015, 07:47 PMWe were going for games were the female is the lead. You can elect to not play as the chick in Rolling Thunder 2.

Was just joking, but i see what you mean.

Again great episode - makes me wanna try getting into MW4 again. Haven't gaven Valis a fair shot yet either

Joe Redifer · 03/15/2015, 10:04 PM

Quote from: BigusSchmuck on 03/15/2015, 08:54 PMFausette Armor? Popful Mail? The Guardian Legend? Cotton? Magical Chase? Hmm... Sounds to me there is enough to get a follow up episode going.

Send me Magical Chase. It needs to be complete mint VGA 85++ in order to be covered, though.

The Guardian Legend is a good one and also one that really surprised me.

esteban · 03/15/2015, 11:52 PM

Quote from: DragonmasterDan on 03/15/2015, 08:02 PM
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 03/15/2015, 07:47 PMWe were going for games were the female is the lead. You can elect to not play as the chick in Rolling Thunder 2.
El Viento is way better than the Valis games (if you're only going to cover one Telenet game/series), but you've covered it before.

El Viento vs. Valis III (TG-CD)?

No way, Valis III pulls ahead.

This is not really for you, DragonMasterDan, but this is really just a rehash of what I used 10-15 years ago to defend VALIS III from El Viento fans.

I've played and beaten El Viento countless times and I like it, certainly. But it is not not without its shortcomings.

So, here we go...
[rant]

I know folks love El Viento and Wolf Team, but Valis III doesn't have the UGLY PIXELATED EXPLODING EVERYTHING (I like to joke about the OCTOPI or whatever those things are in the sea stage, but every stage suffers for it).

GRATUTUITOUS PIXELATION + goofy explosion SFX = destruction of atmosphere, detracts from music, etc. This automatically disqualifies El Viento from being a serious contender to Valis III, and I haven't even started on how the level designs in El Viento (back and forth, back and forth, back and forth) are NOT better than Valis III (admittedly, level design had never been amazingly inspired in Valis series, but Valis III > El Viento).

Parodius Da! For example, is a great game that has GIANT PIXELATION FX inspired by SNES. Parodius is a thoroughly solid game, though, which lessens its offensiveness. Not so for El Viento, where the giant pixelated explosions seem like a garish joke that is used over and over and over.

The exploding "tiny round logs" and "bricks" are another example of how the OVERLY LOUD SFX really become grating because Annet destroys thousands of these damn things.

VALIS III offers superior atmosphere, music, level design, three-player-switching, satisfaction from SOLVING CHALLENGES (via character choice and magic), story, cinemas, etc etc.

....dare I say character design! Seriously!

Valis III is far more satisfying to progress in (solving challenges is rewarding) and also the game that has more replayability. At least for me, anyway.

Valis III will always be a second-class game to the Great Ones, but it is closer to the first-class than El Viento.

[/rant]

Gentlegamer · 03/16/2015, 12:07 PM

Surprised Alisia Dragoon didn't make the video.

Medic_wheat · 03/16/2015, 12:11 PM

Quote from: Gentlegamer on 03/16/2015, 12:07 PMSurprised Alisia Dragoon didn't make the video.

I think they were trying to mention games they have not already discussed in previous episodes. Or at lest limit it a bit to make it more interesting.

Good news is there are tons of other games to pick from for many more installments.

Even our very own princess peach

Gentlegamer · 03/16/2015, 12:19 PM

I mean from the Joe is a FEKA Fanboy angle.

NecroPhile · 03/16/2015, 12:42 PM

No Princess Misa?!? You are dead to me!!!

Bloufo · 03/16/2015, 01:40 PM

'Beyond Good And Evil' definitely merited an inclusion.

Shoulda dropped Space Channel 5. I'm sure Dave wouldn't disagree.

Opethian · 03/16/2015, 01:51 PM

maybe if someone could send them an Athena PCB because the NES port is terrible

esteban · 03/16/2015, 02:00 PM

Quote from: Opethian on 03/16/2015, 01:51 PMmaybe if someone could send them an Athena PCB because the NES port is terrible

I guess I gotta spend some more time with arcade version of Athena. I have only played it via emulation, years ago.

I actually have a life-long mission to continue playing the NES version of Athena (I know I'll never really beat it...I can't believe this game didn't get tweaked before release...it could have been awesome, especially for the time it was released.)

Joe Redifer · 03/18/2015, 03:10 AM

Quote from: esteban on 03/15/2015, 11:52 PMI know folks love El Viento and Wolf Team, but Valis III doesn't have the UGLY PIXELATED EXPLODING EVERYTHING (I like to joke about the OCTOPI or whatever those things are in the sea stage, but every stage suffers for it).

Aw hell no! Pixelated graphics are AWESOME! That's REAL SCALING ACTION MOTHERFUCKER! If pixelated graphics weren't the monkey's tit, then WHY WAS THE SNES FULL OF SIMILAR PIXELATED GRAPHICS?????? We all know the SNES was the best in every aspect. Betcha can't answer that one! If it wasn't done on SNES, then it wasn't any good. BAM another one shut down!

Quote'Beyond Good And Evil' definitely merited an inclusion.

Shoulda dropped Space Channel 5. I'm sure Dave wouldn't disagree.

That was all on Dave. He was considering Beyond Good and Evil but chose Space Channel 5 instead. I don't know why. I tried to convince him not to choose Space Channel 5. I personally have never liked that game and don't understand why it is so admired. If he had the Dreamcast version he wouldn't be allowed to do it since he can't record the Dreamcast in 480p, but he had the PS2 version which is 480i only which he can record (he can also record PS2 in 480p). The PS2 was pretty shitty when it came to video output. Very few 480p games. Tomb Raider Anniversary was 480p and that looked great. So many PS2 developers missed the boat. Interlaced anything is for losers.

ClodBusted · 03/18/2015, 04:49 AM

The only rhythm game I tried so far is Rhythm heaven for the Wii. I halfway suck in that game, but I still think it makes fun. Good thing is that it is more about keeping in sync with the beat, and less about remembering long strings of button combinations.

And once you have seen the NSFW fan video of remix no. 10, you can't unsee it anymore when you play the game.

BigusSchmuck · 03/18/2015, 05:04 PM

Oh yeah I forgot about that crappy Parappa the Rappa Sequel Unjammer Lammy.

InfraMan · 03/18/2015, 11:14 PM

Quote from: BigusSchmuck on 03/18/2015, 05:04 PMOh yeah I forgot about that crappy Parappa the Rappa Sequel Unjammer Lammy.

I liked UmJammer Lammy more than Parappa. Especially the original Japanese version.

Then again, I like rhythm games in general.

shawnji · 03/21/2015, 03:17 AM

I think I've pretty much caught up on the show now. I actually only found out about it when I was hunting YouTube for Ys version comparisons. I feel like a dummy because it wasn't until about a month ago that I realized Joe was "Moderator Joe" on here.

You guys have really improved a lot since the early episodes. In particular, Dave's readings don't sound quite so forced these days. Game Grumps, JonTron, and Game Sack are about the only gaming shows on YouTube I can stand to watch recently; the former two for their humor and Game Sack for being a well-produced and edited, genuinely informative gaming show.

I'd really like to see an episode on games with controversial content. I only say this because I desperately want to see more people talk about the Exile games in depth and make note of the changes (intentional and otherwise) made for the US versions. C'mon, Joe, make it happen!

P.S. If we're discussing rhythm games, have you guys played Gitaroo Man!? Such an awesome and overlooked little game.

DragonmasterDan · 03/21/2015, 08:46 AM

Quote from: InfraMan on 03/18/2015, 11:14 PMI liked UmJammer Lammy more than Parappa. Especially the original Japanese version.

Then again, I like rhythm games in general.

I agree.

It's Parappa 2 that's lousy.

InfraMan · 03/21/2015, 02:42 PM

Quote from: shawnji on 03/21/2015, 03:17 AMP.S. If we're discussing rhythm games, have you guys played Gitaroo Man!? Such an awesome and overlooked little game.

I LOVE Gitaroo Man! I can still hear that acoustic theme from stage 6 in my head, lol.

I also really like the underrated Taiko Drum Master on PS2... I lived in an upstairs apartment back when that one first came out, and it's a wonder the people living below me didn't kill me in my sleep.

Quote from: DragonmasterDan on 03/21/2015, 08:46 AMI agree.

It's Parappa 2 that's lousy.

Yep, Parappa 2 was an abomination.

TR0N · 03/29/2015, 02:30 AM

The PC-FX - Game Sack

Gentlegamer · 03/29/2015, 02:57 AM

This episode better be about Queen of Queens.

Bloufo · 03/29/2015, 03:37 AM

Zenki looks great but where to find it? I'm guessing the asking prices on that one are through the roof.

I do though own that Chip Chan Kick game that Dave reviewed. So far it's the only game I've had some fun with on the PC-FX.

sirhcman · 03/29/2015, 10:43 AM

Quote from: TR0N on 03/29/2015, 02:30 AMThe PC-FX - Game Sack

I thought the SuperGrafx was the follow up to the PC Engine, not the PC-FX?

BlueBMW · 03/29/2015, 11:16 AM

Super grafx was kind of mid cycle. It came out in 1989 I think.

Opposite to most Game Sack episodes I think this might make fewer people buy the PC-FX. Usually GS episodes increase the popularity of a system...

Bloufo · 03/29/2015, 11:37 AM

Quote from: BlueBMW on 03/29/2015, 11:16 AMOpposite to most Game Sack episodes I think this might make fewer people buy the PC-FX. Usually GS episodes increase the popularity of a system...

From the horses mouth,

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/18/2015, 11:11 PMIf anything our episode will make the price go DOWN!

Bloufo · 03/29/2015, 11:39 AM

*double post*

Medic_wheat · 03/29/2015, 12:08 PM

Now I am sure this episode wasn't the entire library just what Joe has.

And now that it is DOB people can stop asking for it.

Now that I see an informative video about it. Ehhhh

The system has only two games I found interesting to a degree.

It would be more of a novelty then anything

poponon · 03/29/2015, 02:21 PM

Only game that looked interesting enough to warrant a new console was zenki. Shame

Dicer · 03/29/2015, 07:35 PM

System makes me angry, like legit mad...

Gentlegamer · 03/29/2015, 10:44 PM

This is the game that makes PC-FX worth it

Queen of Queens

TR0N · 03/30/2015, 02:27 AM

Quote from: BlueBMW on 03/29/2015, 11:16 AMSuper grafx was kind of mid cycle. It came out in 1989 I think.

Opposite to most Game Sack episodes I think this might make fewer people buy the PC-FX. Usually GS episodes increase the popularity of a system...

Well i'm still not sold on one having a pc-engine is enough for me.

SamIAm · 03/30/2015, 04:14 AM

It's a shame Dave didn't find the Miraculuum FAQ or the intro to Fire Woman Matoigumi the that's on the PC-FX society site. I would have liked to hear a few more of his thoughts on those.

When it comes to Nirgends, the final game in the video, Japanese reviews seem to be unanimous: the gameplay part is crap, but story-wise it's perhaps the best written game on the system.

EvilEvoIX · 03/30/2015, 12:42 PM

Why make a system with Turbo Guts and not able to play Turbo games? This is system was a total cock up.

Shame

Joe Redifer · 03/30/2015, 07:20 PM

Agree 100%. It should be able to play Turbo Games. It would be awesome to play with with native, built-in S-video. But NEC and Hudson are dumb. They make Sega's console choices look brilliant.

Quote from: SamIAmIt's a shame Dave didn't find the Miraculuum FAQ or the intro to Fire Woman Matoigumi the that's on the PC-FX society site.

Yeah I think Dave mostly sticks with sites he knows like GameFAQs.

kazekirifx · 03/30/2015, 09:15 PM

Quote from: EvilEvoIX on 03/30/2015, 12:42 PMWhy make a system with Turbo Guts and not able to play Turbo games? This is system was a total cock up.

It doesn't actually have any PCE hardware in it other than the sound chip.

SamIAm · 03/30/2015, 09:17 PM

Quote from: kazekirifx on 03/30/2015, 09:15 PMIt doesn't actually have any PCE hardware in it other than the sound chip.

No, it's got the graphics processor, too. Two of them, actually. Had they included a Hucard port, they could have made it backwards compatible with the Supergrafx.

The only major component that it's missing is the CPU.

kazekirifx · 03/30/2015, 09:26 PM

Cool. Didn't know that. Always thought it was completely different hardware. Would have been interesting if it had been made backward compatible.

CrackTiger · 03/30/2015, 09:57 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 03/30/2015, 07:20 PMAgree 100%. It should be able to play Turbo Games. It would be awesome to play with with native, built-in S-video. But NEC and Hudson are dumb. They make Sega's console choices look brilliant.

So the PC-FX should have only been sold as a box that plugs into the HuCard port of PC Engine systems, with a cable hooking into a video port and used a second power supply... and been released the same day as a much more powerful stand-alone console that NEC/Hudson fully supported as the true successor to the PC Engine?

Quote from: kazekirifx on 03/30/2015, 09:26 PMCool. Didn't know that. Always thought it was completely different hardware. Would have been interesting if it had been made backward compatible.

That's why so many elements of PC-FX games, like all(?) sprites look like PCE graphics. It really is the PCE equivalent of the 32X.

kazekirifx · 03/30/2015, 10:56 PM

Quote from: guest on 03/30/2015, 09:57 PMThat's why so many elements of PC-FX games, like all(?) sprites look like PCE graphics. It really is the PCE equivalent of the 32X.

Yeah, a lot of games do. Why is it that even though the system supports higher resolution graphics than the PCE, there still seem to be some games where the sprites look like they could've been done on PCE?

Joe Redifer · 03/30/2015, 11:01 PM

Quote from: guest on 03/30/2015, 09:57 PM
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 03/30/2015, 07:20 PMAgree 100%. It should be able to play Turbo Games. It would be awesome to play with with native, built-in S-video. But NEC and Hudson are dumb. They make Sega's console choices look brilliant.
So the PC-FX should have only been sold as a box that plugs into the HuCard port of PC Engine systems, with a cable hooking into a video port and used a second power supply... and been released the same day as a much more powerful stand-alone console that NEC/Hudson fully supported as the true successor to the PC Engine?

Hell yeah! It would have been hella cheaper for sure. Who was stupid enough to pay full retail for a PC-FX at launch when it cost more than the Saturn and Playstation which had already been released? But it couldn't have a wire because NEC stupidly not not supply us with an RGB jack. I suppose it could hook onto the expansion port. The 32X was not released on the same day as the Saturn. Not here anyway (I know you pay no attention to the US market at all).

kazekirifx · 03/30/2015, 11:14 PM

I would guess it probably would have sold even worse as an expansion. Look at the 32X. It sold only 665,000 units whereas the Saturn sold 9.5 million. Look at the Arcade Card. People seem more willing to buy a whole new system than an expansion.

Joe Redifer · 03/31/2015, 12:35 AM

How much did the Arcade Card sell? Maybe PCE owners were just fickle? 32X sold over 6 times what the PC-FX did. Though honestly I'd compare the SuperGrafx to the 32X before I'd compare the PC-FX to it. Even though the 32X seemed to be much more powerful than either.

As for the Arcade Card, my uninformed theory would be that they made a mistake calling it the ARCADE Card. Why not System Card 4.0? Or Ultra CD or some shit? And what did it have to show for itself? Mostly fighting games. I think PCE owners weren't really into the fighting games as much as into other genres.

kazekirifx · 03/31/2015, 12:50 AM

Yeah... I can't find any sales data for the Arcade Card, but considering the small library of games for it I think it's pretty safe to say it wasn't very widely adopted.

elmer · 03/31/2015, 12:53 AM

I enjoyed the Game Sack episode on the PC-FX ... thanks.

Pretty much echoes my feelings on its software library.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 03/31/2015, 12:35 AMAs for the Arcade Card, my uninformed theory would be that they made a mistake calling it the ARCADE Card. Why not System Card 4.0? Or Ultra CD or some shit? And what did it have to show for itself? Mostly fighting games. I think PCE owners weren't really into the fighting games as much as into other genres.

Weren't the arcades full of fighting games at the time? I seem to remember that they were still the hot genre at the time that the Arcade Card came out ... which was also why the Duo-RX came with a 6-button pad.

SamIAm · 03/31/2015, 01:47 AM

That's probably it. Wasn't Art of Fighting the Arcade Card's "release game"? It's kind of ironic considering the direction they took with the PC-FX, but I think they were going after the arcade-game-at-home appeal.

JoshTurboTrollX · 03/31/2015, 12:31 PM

PC-FX is the weirdest console of all times. It's almost like NEC was just begging for it to fail so they could go back to just making electronics....

Dicer · 03/31/2015, 01:06 PM

Quote from: JoshTurboTrollX-16 on 03/31/2015, 12:31 PMPC-FX is the weirdest console of all times. It's almost like NEC was just begging for it to fail so they could go back to just making electronics....

If they didn't waver and actually pushed the original "ironman" hardware when it was time, they would have been in a much better spot I think...

The latter choices by NEC/Hudson were really fucked up. There should have never been a Shuttle (sorry shuttle lovers) or Supergrafx, I understand doing the Arcade card as a last push as fighters were huge at the time.

Maybe when time travel becomes a thing we can go back and smack some heads around...

esteban · 03/31/2015, 05:42 PM

Quote from: SamIAm on 03/31/2015, 01:47 AMThat's probably it. Wasn't Art of Fighting the Arcade Card's "release game"? It's kind of ironic considering the direction they took with the PC-FX, but I think they were going after the arcade-game-at-home appeal.

Yeah, I don't think it was surprising at all. In fact, it was exactly what you would expect a company to do...

https://archives.tg-16.com/Dengeki_PC_Engine_1994_03.htm

https://archives.tg-16.com/Dengeki_PC_Engine_1994_05.htm

https://archives.tg-16.com/Dengeki_PC_Engine_1994_07.htm

https://archives.tg-16.com/Dengeki_PC_Engine_1994_10.htm

NecroPhile · 03/31/2015, 06:14 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 03/31/2015, 12:35 AM32X sold over 6 times what the PC-FX did.

I'm sure the $20 clearance bin price tags had something to do with that.