The Anime Thread: Finding Good Anime

[Emerald Rocker]

It's neither Ree-yu nor Rye-yu.

[esteban]

I pronounce it Care Bear Countdown

Ha!

You know, that's a damn catchy theme song.

5, 4, 3, 2, 1

[esteban]

It's neither Ree-yu nor Rye-yu.

Roo.

[Emerald Rocker]

That's closer, actually.

[DragonmasterDan]

And I watched the first of the two movies on the disc.

[DragonmasterDan]

So I watched both Unico movies. The second one Island of Magic is actually a lot better than the first. The quality of animation in those 80s Tezuka projects is unparalleled.

Thanks for the recommendation Zeta!

[DragonmasterDan]

And as mentioned in the what did you get today thread. This is out on DVD in the US.
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[SignOfZeta]

Is that BR or DVD?

[ClodBusted]

It's Betamax.



I'm looking forward to get my hands on Robot Carnival, too.

[DragonmasterDan]

Is that BR or DVD?

DVD

[RyuHayabusa]

And as mentioned in the what did you get today thread. This is out on DVD in the US.
/zpsbcjgh160.jpg

I bought the DVD of Robot Carnival a couple of years ago off of Ebay. Definitely one of my favorite anime of all time. Deprive and Presence are my favorite parts. I also have the soundtrack. The Presence tunes are hauntingly beautiful. Almost all of my favorite anime are from the 80s. Fist of the North Star (movie and TV series), Robot Carnival, Akira, Vampire Hunter D, Bubblegum Crisis, Area 88, Golgo 13: The Professional, etc. There's just something about anime from that time that is missing today. For me the 80s is the golden age of anime.

[DragonmasterDan]

I bought the DVD of Robot Carnival a couple of years ago off of Ebay. Definitely one of my favorite anime of all time. Deprive and Presence are my favorite parts. I also have the soundtrack. The Presence tunes are hauntingly beautiful. Almost all of my favorite anime are from the 80s. Fist of the North Star (movie and TV series), Robot Carnival, Akira, Vampire Hunter D, Bubblegum Crisis, Area 88, Golgo 13: The Professional, etc. There's just something about anime from that time that is missing today. For me the 80s is the golden age of anime.

I  have a tremendous nostalgia for most of those. Fist of the Northstar the movie, Vampire Hunter D, Robot Carnival, Golgo 13: The professional (though blurred out in a lot of spots) are all movies I saw on local TV in Chicago in the 90s when Streamline pictures was distributing their movies to TV stations.

I like 80s anime aesthetically more than any other decade as you have basic mastery of what can be done with traditional paint and cel's without digital editing and cleanup that removes a lot of the fine lines, details and imperfections from the look of the animation.

[ClodBusted]

Fuck yes, you two are saying what I'm thinking of and feeling for the animation of that old days. It's the aesthetics, it's the storytelling, it's the music.

[RyuHayabusa]

Fuck yes, you two are saying what I'm thinking of and feeling for the animation of that old days. It's the aesthetics, it's the storytelling, it's the music.

Definitely. I much prefer the art and music of the old stuff. Anyone else a Bubblegum Crisis fan? I absolutely love the music to that series. I happened to find an old Bubblegum Crisis laserdisc for $1 at a local bookstore years ago. I'd heard about the series before but once I popped it into the old Laseractive, I was hooked. Bubblegum Crash is ok but not as good as the original. Probably my favorite somewhat recent anime is Berserk. The artwork, music, and story is top notch. The new Blu-Ray series, Egg of the King, is pretty good too, though I like that the original DVD series omits some of the weird stuff from the manga.

[SignOfZeta]

One really nice thing about 80s anime is that there is a ton of it. I got hooked on anime with Battle of the Planets but didn't really get "into" the fan scene until the late 80s/early 90s. But even now, even with a U.S. domestic scene and fan subbers and Bit Torrent and all that jazz I'm *still* finding cool new shows.

[RyuHayabusa]

One really nice thing about 80s anime is that there is a ton of it. I got hooked on anime with Battle of the Planets but didn't really get "into" the fan scene until the late 80s/early 90s. But even now, even with a U.S. domestic scene and fan subbers and Bit Torrent and all that jazz I'm *still* finding cool new shows.

There are a lot of good ones I haven't gotten to watch yet. I hear Record of the Lodoss War is good. I'm kinda interested in checking out Saint Seiya. Any opinions on SS here?

[ClodBusted]

BGCrisis was the first "mature" anime I got in contact with, when a friend of mine brought over his VHS tapes back in the 90s. Then he introduced me to Lodoss War. I was hooked from that moment.

Lodoss War is pretty much Lord of the rings in Japanimated form.

[Medic_wheat]

Question for those who can offer an honest opinion.


A few days ago Funimation had a sale on all of their Dragon Ball box sets


I jumped at sessions 1-9 for the blu Ray release of the DBZ (not Kia)

But it is on back order as they sold out.

But as I did some research I learned that Funimation went cheap and cropped the heck out of it.

For those who have it is it worth owning?

I am tempted to cancel the order even though it was at 60% off.

Anyone who owns this version of the Blu Ray set of DBZ WOULD YOU SAY KEEP IT OR WAIT FOR A BETTER QUALITY RELEASE?

[SignOfZeta]

I can't even imagine *why* you'd need a BR of Dragon Ball Z. The animation is so cheap in that show I can't see it being any more enjoyable than a VHS fansub.

Just so that nobody flies off the handle at me, this is not a criticism of DBZ. It's a terrific show, one of the greats, I just don't see there being anything to work with here, picture quality-wise.

[Medic_wheat]

I can't even imagine *why* you'd need a BR of Dragon Ball Z. The animation is so cheap in that show I can't see it being any more enjoyable than a VHS fansub.

Just so that nobody flies off the handle at me, this is not a criticism of DBZ. It's a terrific show, one of the greats, I just don't see there being anything to work with here, picture quality-wise.

From what have seen or read up on they did a lot of work (Japan) to clean it up and do color correction much like Akirs.


Then when Funimation started their import and blu Ray release they started with the high end work that Japan was doing.

But after the first two parts of season one DBZ. The cost to do it and keep the aspect ratio Funimation said. Fuck it. And revisit zoomed in and no color correction graininess removed.

Which pissed off fans. That was around 2006? 

So now the fans say the completed blu ray release (not Kia) is piss poor when compared to what they where originally where doing.


But u didn't know any of that. So I am asking for those who may have this version is it worth having?  Paid $154 for the 9 seasons at 60% Off.

[SignOfZeta]

It sounds like if you want to avoid those issues you should just stick with the DVD. DBZ was a very cheap TV anime from 25 years ago. There isn't anything...there, that you can extract by bringing it into HD except for the flaws that they apparently suck at scrubbing out. It's not like it's Nightmare Before Christmas or Do You Remember Love or Tokyo Olympiad where there is an almost infinite complexity in every frame, It's like notebook doodles.

[ParanoiaDragon]

I have the orange boxset seasons on DVD.  I wouldn't mind the BR's if only to save a lot of space in my limited DVD racks.  But yeah, I've heard they're all cropped & zoom, etc.  So I haven't bothered with them.

[Medic_wheat]

I guess the real question is if I don't mind owning a inferior copy of the DBZ show for $154 and if I am willing or rebut if a more "fistful" bluray port comes out.

[wildfruit]

Late interjection;
In general I have no emotions, about anything. My wife says I am dead inside and that I can't relate to people. She is probably right.
Gotf bent me over and did me good. O man it's powerful.
That is all.
Each and everyone of you god speed.

[DragonmasterDan]

Late interjection;
In general I have no emotions, about anything. My wife says I am dead inside and that I can't relate to people. She is probably right.
Gotf bent me over and did me good. O man it's powerful.
That is all.
Each and everyone of you god speed.

Just for some context, I'm assuming you watched it subbed rather than dubbed?

[NightWolve]

I would've preferred to have watched that dubbed, and preferably by Disney. Reading text for 1:30 to 2 hours while listening to gibberish (as whatever foreign language you're listening to, you don't understand a word of it) makes it harder to connect with characters and hence care for them.

Like, I enjoyed "Porco Rosso" where the main character, the fighter ace, was voiced by Michael "I'm Batman!" Keaton; he brought an old skool cool to it. In "My Neighbor Totoro" the girls were voiced by the Dakota sisters (Fanning & Elle Dakota) and I think they did a great job as well. Christian Bale voiced the lead in "Howl's Moving Castle" and I could tell it was him - I was at first very surprised that they got someone as high profile as him to do an anime as that was one of the first Studio Ghibli animes I watched localized by Disney. It's a weird one, but I liked it too and thought his voice fit.

Anyway, with GotF, that was the only one I watched subbed while listening to Japanese. The difference in that is you don't connect to any characters by their voice obviously, there is far less memory of it when it's over too, and it might as well be or could have all been voiced by one person in whatever foreign language it's in, you just sat there and read text through the whole thing, like a book or an article... That's just a different experience and it's not gonna be as enjoyable, moving or interesting, etc.

I agree with somebody earlier who found parts of it boring, I did as well. Maybe dubbing would've helped, but my first experience was without it and that's how I came to feel what I do about this one. It's understandable that it's not as good as their later work, it's one of the first ones they made. But yeah, I just didn't think it was all that great and I'm kinda surprised a movie critic like Roger Ebert considers it to be one of the best and most powerful war films and had added it to his "greatest movies" list... It just wasn't THAT good in my view, but yeah, I get that some came away with a far more intense reaction to it...

[xcrement5x]

I guess the real question is if I don't mind owning a inferior copy of the DBZ show for $154 and if I am willing or rebut if a more "fistful" bluray port comes out.

Return DBZ.  Buy Dragon Ball and watch it instead as it is much better IMHO.

[ClodBusted]

I got in contact with the Dragon Ball manga at first, read through all 42 volumes, when the TV series was released a few years later in my country. I enjoyed the books, and the TV series is fine too. But since I already knew the story, I didn't put too much interest in watching every episode. The TV series moved on in a rather slow pace, which put me off a bit, while I could determine the pace by myself when reading the books.


Long story short: Today I wouldn't start watching such a near-endless TV series or even collecting its numerous books. I lack time and shelf space.

[ParanoiaDragon]

I guess the real question is if I don't mind owning a inferior copy of the DBZ show for $154 and if I am willing or rebut if a more "fistful" bluray port comes out.

Return DBZ.  Buy Dragon Ball and watch it instead as it is much better IMHO.

Correction, return DB & DBZ & trade em' in for DBGT!  BEST. SERIES. EVER!  Kidding, actually, I thought it was "ok" but it didn't excite me.

[xcrement5x]

I guess the real question is if I don't mind owning a inferior copy of the DBZ show for $154 and if I am willing or rebut if a more "fistful" bluray port comes out.

Return DBZ.  Buy Dragon Ball and watch it instead as it is much better IMHO.

Correction, return DB & DBZ & trade em' in for DBGT!  BEST. SERIES. EVER!  Kidding, actually, I thought it was "ok" but it didn't excite me.

The original Dragon Ball is so much more fun to watch to me.  Lots of goofiness and entertaining side stories going on, plus plenty of kids humor that's still funny to watch.  Just my 2c though. 

[DragonmasterDan]

Just my 2c though. 

Wasn't that also the animation budget on those episodes?

[GreatBlue Swirlof99]

Pokemon advanced series so great!

[BigusSchmuck]

I finished Death Note this weekend, that's one screwed up anime. Now my wife is watching the live action drama series, it's ok..

[ClodBusted]

I finished watching Yamada's First Time on Blu-Ray. Usually, I don't like today's animation, but this one grew on me pretty well. It's about a virgin schoolgirl on her mission to lay 100 boys or so, but very soon it becomes apparent that she's got to change her insane plans when she faces reality. Funny, charming and entertaining.

At the moment, I'm watching the 3rd season of the Wooser's hand to mouth life via Crunchyroll app on Xbox 360. Man, Wooser is some messed up mascot. I'm also watching Miss Monochrome, which looks like a sister series to Wooser with a cameo. Both series are wacky and have episodes that last around 5 minutes.

[xcrement5x]

I finished watching Yamada's First Time on Blu-Ray. Usually, I don't like today's animation, but this one grew on me pretty well. It's about a virgin schoolgirl on her mission to lay 100 boys or so, but very soon it becomes apparent that she's got to change her insane plans when she faces reality. Funny, charming and entertaining.

At the moment, I'm watching the 3rd season of the Wooser's hand to mouth life via Crunchyroll app on Xbox 360. Man, Wooser is some messed up mascot. I'm also watching Miss Monochrome, which looks like a sister series to Wooser with a cameo. Both series are wacky and have episodes that last around 5 minutes.

Haha, Yamada's First Time was one of those animes I thought was going to be all fanservice with no plot but it was surprisingly good and endearing in parts. Glad to see other people are enjoying it too, there can be a lot of modern anime hate on these boards sometimes when there is still really good stuff being put out

[DragonmasterDan]

This arrived today.
/2015-08-25%2016.22.35_zpsrbtmfpn3.jpg

[RyuHayabusa]

This arrived today.
/zpsrbtmfpn3.jpg

Wow, that's the first time I've seen the Vampire Hunter D Blu-ray. Cool Amano artwork on that cover. Is that a US region BR? Gotta pick that up. Let me know how the picture and sound quality is. I've watched the VHS and DVD versions and there's a lot of dark, sometimes hard to see parts but that's probably just the way the movie was made. Thanks for posting this. I had no idea it was available on BR. Hopefully all those old Streamline Pictures anime will be coming to BR.

[DragonmasterDan]

Wow, that's the first time I've seen the Vampire Hunter D Blu-ray. Cool Amano artwork on that cover. Is that a US region BR? Gotta pick that up. Let me know how the picture and sound quality is. I've watched the VHS and DVD versions and there's a lot of dark, sometimes hard to see parts but that's probably just the way the movie was made. Thanks for posting this. I had no idea it was available on BR. Hopefully all those old Streamline Pictures anime will be coming to BR.

Yes, it's a US region Blu Ray.

Picture quality is excellent. The Urban Vision DVD was very dark but the Streamline VHS and LD releases were brighter. This is a much cleaner brighter transfer.

 I heard bits and pieces of the redone dub (the Streamline dub is not included) and I'm not that impressed. The big reveal at the end is kind of limited in its effect by the rewritten dialogue. Audio quality is overall pretty good, those complaints aside.

[RyuHayabusa]

Wow, that's the first time I've seen the Vampire Hunter D Blu-ray. Cool Amano artwork on that cover. Is that a US region BR? Gotta pick that up. Let me know how the picture and sound quality is. I've watched the VHS and DVD versions and there's a lot of dark, sometimes hard to see parts but that's probably just the way the movie was made. Thanks for posting this. I had no idea it was available on BR. Hopefully all those old Streamline Pictures anime will be coming to BR.

Yes, it's a US region Blu Ray.

Picture quality is excellent. The Urban Vision DVD was very dark but the Streamline VHS and LD releases were brighter. This is a much cleaner brighter transfer.

 I heard bits and pieces of the redone dub (the Streamline dub is not included) and I'm not that impressed. The big reveal at the end is kind of limited in its effect by the rewritten dialogue. Audio quality is overall pretty good, those complaints aside.

Yeah, just read a review for the BR and was disappointed that they've omitted the Streamline dub. After watching the movie for 20 years it will be jarring to hear different voice actors. Wish they would've added more extras. I'm still going to get it just to check out the improved picture quality.

[KnightWarrior]

Anyone watch Strawberry Panic?

[ClodBusted]

Never heard of it. Please tell me more.

[DragonmasterDan]

On a semi-PCE related anime note. Discotek announced a Space Adventure Cobra the movie Blu-Ray release scheduled for December.

[esteban]

On a semi-PCE related anime note. Discotek announced a Space Adventure Cobra the movie Blu-Ray release scheduled for December.

If it features female buttocks on motorcycles, I'm in.

[DragonmasterDan]

If it features female buttocks on motorcycles, I'm in.

And in high definition!

[esteban]

If it features female buttocks on motorcycles, I'm in.

And in high definition!

What's funny is I only recently bought a BR drive for my computer. So, suddenly, I Am interested in BR.

A few months ago, I would have skimmed past any reference to BR.

[DragonmasterDan]

What's funny is I only recently bought a BR drive for my computer. So, suddenly, I Am interested in BR.

A few months ago, I would have skimmed past any reference to BR.

It's probably the last "standard" physical consumer format we're going to have for movies/home media. So I've been buying quite a lot of old favorites on blu-ray lately.

The other thing is that with animation, watching it on Blu-Ray lets you see a lot of cel detail and things you won't notice as much on lower resolution transfers. Watching Vampire Hunter D in HD for example, I saw a lot of fine detail that on DVD or Laserdisc would have been too low res to make out. It also shows you more imperfections, grain, and dirt. But I think that's part of the fun of it.

Now when movies are mastered like garbage, that's another issue entirely.

[esteban]

What's funny is I only recently bought a BR drive for my computer. So, suddenly, I Am interested in BR.

A few months ago, I would have skimmed past any reference to BR.

It's probably the last "standard" physical consumer format we're going to have for movies/home media. So I've been buying quite a lot of old favorites on blu-ray lately.

The other thing is that with animation, watching it on Blu-Ray lets you see a lot of cel detail and things you won't notice as much on lower resolution transfers. Watching Vampire Hunter D in HD for example, I saw a lot of fine detail that on DVD or Laserdisc would have been too low res to make out. It also shows you more imperfections, grain, and dirt. But I think that's part of the fun of it.

Now when movies are mastered like garbage, that's another issue entirely.

Yeah, I don't mind seeing the imperfections (it's akin to playing a record). The imperfections are *part* of the experience.

ASIDE: But seeing them as "imperfections" is just one way to look at it—it is also touches on our quest for "purity" (see below).

However, poor mastering is unacceptable. Or lazy transfers.

I have a bunch of movies (Dvd) where the subtitles are permanently on the film itself (instead of data track allowing you to turn captions on/off). The transfer looks like they pulled it from the damn SVHS version (which I already had)...

...anyway, this was from the dawn of DVD and I think a lot of early DVDs cheaply done (especially foreign films).

Why do I bring this up?

I'm OK with pops and scratches on a BR...

...but it does take away some of the magic of the film.

*ASIDE: I made a similar argument with RGB vs composite: some games just look aesthetically "better" when color/graphics morph into something unique (less perfect) on a standard CRT. I argued that the intended destination was the canvas artists were painting for—regular consumers with standard television/inputs...when you compare the same game on RGB + monitor, the sharp (often harsher) pixels provide a distinctly different aesthetic, one that often "takes away the magic" (more sterile) because pixel artists used tricks to make a sterile, unrecognizable block of four pixels transform into a  recognizable character's face on a standard television.

Ok, I'll stop.

The point is: restoration projects that clean up source material without corrupting/altering the original content are good. But, if that is not going to happen, I am willing to put up with the sterile, harsh imperfections of the original.

However, I do wonder how much "magic" is lost in our quest for "purity"—be it purity of RGB signal, or the purity of literally capturing all the specks of dirt and film grain in a film.

Am I silly for suggesting that consumes should have the option to use filters (beyond the standard settings in TV) to intentionally *downgrade* an image...say by offering a "smart blur" (PhotoShop filter) that would hide the dirt and grain?

I know emulators have various filters, but I am talking about a different set of filters specific to viewing TV vs film content.

Consumer would always buy the purest source...but then have ability to modify it. Seems like the best of both worlds (content providers could even have their "suggested filters" activated by default, so only the video enthusiast would have to tinker around, if he/she was so inclined).

Ok, I'll stop.

[DragonmasterDan]

Yeah, I don't mind seeing the imperfections (it's akin to playing a record). The imperfections are *part* of the experience.

However, poor mastering is unacceptable. Or lazy transfers.

Without getting into a long rant. This is still a problem even with major studio movies on Blu-Ray. Being a big general fan of animation I picked up a favorite from my childhood "An American Tail". A movie not even 30 years old. it looks fucking terrible. Absolutely terrible lazy mastering jobs. It's like they ran the 35MM negative through some kool aid, let it dry in a dusty vacuum bag and then ran it through the digital scanner to capture each frame in HD for the Blu-Ray. Just atrocious.

I have a bunch of movies (Dvd) where the subtitles are permanently on the film itself (instead of data track allowing you to turn captions on/off). The transfer looks like they pulled it from the damn SVHS version (which I already had)...

...anyway, this was from the dawn of DVD and I think a lot of early DVDs cheaply done (especially foreign films).

I have some LDs like this too.

Why do I bring this up?

I'm OK with pops and warbles on a BR...

...but it does take away some of the magic.

I made a similar argument with RGB vs composite: some games just look aesthetically "better" when color/graphics morph into something unique on a standard CRT (I argued that the intended destination was the canvas they were painting for—regular consumers with standard television/inputs)...when you compare the same game on RGB + monitor, the sharp (often harsher) pixels provide a distinctly different aesthetic, one that often "takes away the magic" (more sterile) because pixel artists used tricks to make a sterile, unrecognizable block of four pixels transform into a  recognizable character's face on a standard television.

I think it depends on the game and the situation. Some things like the famous Sonic water effect on Genesis don't look right in RGB on a good monitor because the developers did expect people would be using inferior inputs and used that to their advantage to create a "special effect". In general, you see more detail, color seperation and overall sharpness using RGB on old game consoles. But as a good example I had a young lady visit me who felt some of these games looked too "blocky" in RGB and preffered the smoothness of using Svideo or composite on the same display.

The point is: restoration projects that clean up source material without corrupting/altering the original content are good. But, if that is not going to happen, I am willing to put up with the sterile, harsh imperfections of the original.

However, I do wonder how much "magic" is lost in our quest for "purity"—be it purity of RGB signal, or literally capturing all the specks of dirt and film grain in a film.

I have no problem with minor smoothing out of dirt or grain from a film to improve the transfer.

However, when this is done through some sort of batch process program to save time and energy this removes detail. Look up some of the reviews of the Disney movie the Sword and the Stone on Blu-Ray. It's an abomination for the reverse reason of the aforementioned An American Tail release.

[RyuHayabusa]

I watched part of An American Tail in HD a few weeks back and it did look absolutely horrible. I was a somewhat early adopter of BR and one of the first movies I bought was Terminator. Damn was I disappointed with that one. Picture quality was terrible. After watching Blade Runner HD I was hoping for similar results but it wasn't even close. I've since bought the Terminator Collection but I can't remember if it had the original or remastered BR in it.

[DragonmasterDan]

I watched part of An American Tail in HD a few weeks back and it did look absolutely horrible. I was a somewhat early adopter of BR and one of the first movies I bought was Terminator. Damn was I disappointed with that one. Picture quality was terrible. After watching Blade Runner HD I was hoping for similar results but it wasn't even close. I've since bought the Terminator Collection but I can't remember if it had the original or remastered BR in it.

Heh, I remember getting a very early DVD version of Terminator with a really faded picture. That movie is just cursed with bad transfers. I think a special edition came later that looked better.