Is the PC engine/turbografx consoles the defenitive platform for shmups??

[RCduck7]

Here and there i heard and read the pc engine is mostly known for it's good shoot' em ups.
From my experience it certainly felt that way, but what do you think?

The genesis has also a lot of wonderfull shmups like thruxton, the thunder force series,...

The saturn has radiant silvergun which is one of the most loved and lots of others.

In it's late years the Dreamcast still keeps pumping out shmups now and then, trigger heart excelica, ikagura, zerogunner 2, castle shikigami, borderdown,...

[GUTS]

It depends on the type of shooter you like.  If you prefer bullet hell shooters then the Dreamcast or Saturn is Lord almighty, if you prefer old school shooters then the PC Engine is the king (with Genesis coming in a close second).  Personally, I prefer old school shooters so PCE is the definitive platform.

[termis]

The Saturn, Genesis, PCE all seemed to have a good selection of shooters.

If I had to pick a favorite, I'd choose the Genesis between the three.

[RCduck7]

A bullet rain shooter like on the dreamcast can be fun but can feel in my opinion a bit soulless sometimes i guess.
I like the feeling like you can avoid any attack when your good in a game.
So, maybe we can count dreamcast or saturn out as the definitive shooter platform??
These 2 types of shmups are not really comparable eh?

I think the fight is between genesis and PCE in my opinion.

[Seldane]

Naw, X68000 wins this one.

[Tatsujin]

catch'em all!!

[NecroPhile]

Like GUTS said - PCE for old school shmups, Saturn (or Dreamcast) for bullet hell shmups.

[Keranu]

Turbo for me.

[OldRover]

PCE without question, and that's not brand loyalty either. While the Genesis did get a few, most were pretty bland and uninspired. I think Lords of Thunder was the only shooter I enjoyed on the Genesis, and hell, it doesn't even compare to the PCE original by a long shot. If the Genesis had gotten games the caliber of Gate of Thunder, Dead Moon, Soldier Blade, or even Blazing Lasers, then it might have something to show for...

[CrackTiger]

The PC Engine has quantity of quality as well as quantity in general.

Whether you only like to play good shooters or like me, you can appreciate less than perfect games, the PCE wins either way.

[runinruder]

People are really shortchanging the Genesis here.  Thunder Force 2+4, Wings of Wor, Elemental Master, MUSHA, Bio-hazard Battle, Gaiares, and Sagaia are all good shooters, and some of them are just as good as anything the Duo has.  If you include CDs and imports, you have even more quality entries, like Robo Aleste and Gleylancer.  Yes, the Duo kills it by virtue of outnumbering it by a vast margin, but the Genesis is a more-than-respectable second.

[Joe Redifer]

Yeah, the Genesis is underrated in this thread.  Here's some awesome Genesis shooters:

Thunder Force 2 - (I don't care what any of you pusses say, I like the overhead stages!)
Thunder Force 3
Thunder Force 4 - (Got balls?)
Gaiares - (I can beat this.  Bet you can't).
Elemental Master
MUSHA - (Hell yeah!)
Bio Hazard Battle - (Weird but still great)
Wings of Wor - (Almost qualifies as "bullet hell")
Gleylancer
Robo Aleste - (Sega CD, spiritual successor to MUSHA)
Super Fantasy Zone - (oh HELL yeah!)

Some honorable mentions:

Fire Shark
Task Force Harrier EX
Verytex
Whip Rush

My fave shooters on the TG-16 are:

Gate of Thunder
Lords of Thunder
Aero Blasters
and I guess Blazing Lazers, even though that gets boring really fast.

[CrackTiger]

People are really shortchanging the Genesis here.  Thunder Force 2+4, Wings of Wor, Elemental Master, MUSHA, Bio-hazard Battle, Gaiares, and Sagaia are all good shooters, and some of them are just as good as anything the Duo has.  If you include CDs and imports, you have even more quality entries, like Robo Aleste and Gleylancer.  Yes, the Duo kills it by virtue of outnumbering it by a vast margin, but the Genesis is a more-than-respectable second.  

Only one person said anything bad about the Genesis and one other picked it over the PCE. 

Although I haven't played through most Genesis shooters(or most of any other non-PCE console's), I'd pick it as second best since I prefer shooters from that era and like how the hardware compliments the genre.

[runinruder]

Only one person said anything bad about the Genesis

Oh, yeah.

But it was one too many!   

[OldRover]

The Genesis was for platformers and sports games. End of story. It is not now, nor will it ever be, renowned for its wide selection of quality shooters. Yes, more than respectable second amongst its generation and generations prior, but second nonetheless, and the topic of this thread is about whether or not the PCE is the definitive platform for shmups, not whether the Genesis is or not.

[Keranu]

I love Genesis shooters (TF series can massage my e-balls though), I wouldn't place them far behind Turbo ones. I even think SNES shooters are underrated, but it's definitely behind Turbo and Genny.

[runinruder]

The Genesis was for platformers and sports games. End of story. It is not now, nor will it ever be, renowned for its wide selection of quality shooters.

Uh, maybe not in whatever circle you run with, but the Genesis is definitely known as being a great system for shooters.  Games like the Thunder Forces, MUSHA, and Gaiares are definitely well known among (and revered by) most fans of old-school shooters. 

And while I like Dead Moon, I'm afraid there's no way in hell it's of the same caliber as games like Lightening Force and Wings of Wor.  Put forth that assertion in a conversation among knowledgeable shooter players and you'd be considered insane.  DM probably wouldn't even crack my top 25 PCE/Turbo shooters and is hardly an exemplary representative of what the system has to offer in the genre. 

[OldRover]

It's all about the cliques, ain't it? You took what I said out of context, completely ignoring what I said afterwards. Nice. That irritates the hell outta me. Now go back and read it again!

Personally, I found the Thunder Force games to be extremely boring. MUSHA isn't bad, Gaiares is decent but I wouldn't be writing home about it. But I could care less what a bunch of so-called "old-school" geeks think. I much prefer to play Dead Moon over any Genesis shooter I've ever played, and I don't give a damn if the swab-geeks think I'm insane.

Yeah...I'm cranky right now. Don't mind me.

[Keranu]

I agree with nod and I generally don't hear the Genesis being regarded as a system known for shooters, but like I said I love the it's library for them. When I hear people talking about Genesis' software strengths, it's always platform and sports, or less specifically "action games".

[runinruder]

But I could care less what a bunch of so-called "old-school" geeks think. I much prefer to play Dead Moon over any Genesis shooter I've ever played, and I don't give a damn if the swab-geeks think I'm insane.

You're the one who used the term "renowned," chief. 

[SuperDeadite]

If I could only have 3 "shmup consoles" they would be:
1. PCE
2. Saturn
3. PS2

The PCE is the best due to its arcade ports AND exculsive shmups.  Next comes the Saturn with all those great arcade shooters from the '90's.  It totally lacks any real exclusive shmups though.  Finally the PS2 is the system to have for your modern day manic bullet hell arcade shmups.

I like the Dreamcast, but its shooter library is vastly overated.  Most of the better shooters on Dreamcast have superior versions on other consoles. Also it completely lacks games made by Cave, which is sadly the only really good shooter developer left these days. 

The Dreamcast, Genesis, NeoGeo, and PS1 all have some great shooters on them, but they are greatly outclassed by a PCE-Sat-PS2 combo.  The Windows PC is also home to some great exclusive shmups such as the "Touho" series (www.shrinemaiden.org).

[Tatsujin]

Like GUTS said - PCE for old school shmups, Saturn (or Dreamcast) for bullet hell shmups.

don't forget about the PSX.

[Seldane]

What's up with this? Not a single shooter-maniac in the world ever shuts up about the Mega Drive! It's most certainly famous for its shooters. Very famous. I'd say the Mega Drive is most famous for shooters, RPGs second.

[guyjin]

Are there any shmups for the Neo geo? I can't remember any off the top of my head...

[termis]

Are there any shmups for the Neo geo? I can't remember any off the top of my head...

I thought it had a few decent ones -- the later Aero Blasters, Ghost Pilots, Strikers 1945, and the one I really liked was Last Resort.

I'm sure there's a couple more, though I dunno if anything else is good.

[esteban]

I love PCE & Mega Drive shoot-em-ups. MD is a close second to PCE.

That said, I think that the venerable famicom had a bunch of great shoot-em-ups as well. I speak the truth.

[Seldane]

I've yet to play even a decent Famicom shooter. I've tested many.

[CrackTiger]

What's up with this? Not a single shooter-maniac in the world ever shuts up about the Mega Drive! It's most certainly famous for its shooters. Very famous. I'd say the Mega Drive is most famous for shooters, RPGs second.

I guess that the euro Mega Drive got some majorly different releases than the North American Genesis, because over here, its definitely never been known mainly as an RPG console, let alone for shooters(not that people think that its lacking them either).

It seems to me that the Genesis started out as a console known for arcade ports and went on to gain a wide ranging library dominated by various style action oriented games and sports.

After the PCE CD-ROM took off, regardless of all the great games for the console, its always been known for shooters and RPGs. Not every console gets labelled for being strong in a particular genre, but the PCE did.

[Keranu]

I'm pretty sure Seldane is just pulling our chain with the RPG comment because that's a genre the Genesis is commonly regarded as weak in and it's library proves it too .

[Seldane]

No I'm not pulling anything. I'm serious. And you're the FIRST person I've EVER heard say the Mega Drive is weak for RPGs. FIRST! I'm also going to say: you're crazy.

[Keranu]

Well I'm serious and you're the FIRST person I've EVER heard say the Genesis is strong for RPGs  .

By weak, I don't mean the quality isn't good, but rather the quantity of RPGs for the console is weak, at least compared to some other consoles of the time. Usually when people mention RPGs for Genesis, it's usually goes "Phantasy Star II - IV and uh..."

[Seldane]

RPGs and action adventure games, all of which are PERFECT GAMES:

Phantasy Star II
Phantasy Star III
Phantasy Star IV (probably the best real RPG released in the 16-bit era)
The Story of Thor (Oasis-something in America)
Soleil (Crusader of Centy in America) (the best action adventure game ever produced- PERIOD!!)
Landstalker (2nd best action adventure. Um, period too.)
Light Crusader (more of a puzzle game, but still awesome)
Shining in the Holy Ark (better than most 1st person dungeon crawlers!)
Shining Force
Shining Force 2
Traysia
Sword of Vermilion
Wonder Boy in Monster World (original=better)
Ys III: Wanderers From Ys (best console port, all fanboyism aside)
Xin Qi Gai Wang Zi "Beggar Prince" (buggy, but still a DAMN solid game)

Then there's many ÜBER-QUALITY RPGs released for the Mega-CD. These must be counted, but I will not do it because I am lazy/don't care.

These are just some English games I can think of. There are like a million of them in Japanese. I will not be listing those.

[SuperDeadite]

Among others the Neo Geo has Pulstar and Blazing Star.  They are both quite good, Blazing Star is a must play.  Probably one of the few games to really utilize the Neo's power.  Give it a try on MAME, its really fun and looks fantastic.  NeoGeo also has Viewpoint, a nice looking game that's not for the easily frustrated. 

[Keranu]

RPGs and action adventure games, all of which are PERFECT GAMES:

Phantasy Star II
Phantasy Star III
Phantasy Star IV (probably the best real RPG released in the 16-bit era)
The Story of Thor (Oasis-something in America)
Soleil (Crusader of Centy in America) (the best action adventure game ever produced- PERIOD!!)
Landstalker (2nd best action adventure. Um, period too.)
Light Crusader (more of a puzzle game, but still awesome)
Shining in the Holy Ark (better than most 1st person dungeon crawlers!)
Shining Force
Shining Force 2
Traysia
Sword of Vermilion
Wonder Boy in Monster World (original=better)
Ys III: Wanderers From Ys (best console port, all fanboyism aside)
Xin Qi Gai Wang Zi "Beggar Prince" (buggy, but still a DAMN solid game)

I was referring to standard turn-based RPGs, but I think even with action RPGs it doesn't have many. Also I strongly consider Shining Force and SF2 as strategy RPGs. And I assume you meant Shining in the Darkness instead of Holy Ark, both of which are great games by the way.

[SignOfZeta]

The best shooter system, IMO, is probably Saturn. Not just because of RS, but also DoDonPachi, the Gradius, Salamander, and Parodius packs, Thundeforce V, Batsugun, etc.

The DC shooters are nice, but most of them are all from the same era, and have the same bullet hell style. The PCE has a lot of shooters, but they are also from the same era for the most part. The Saturn has the best range of shooter styles, IMO.

Certainly any shooter fan will have all three systems though.

[TR0N]

Among others the Neo Geo has Pulstar and Blazing Star.  They are both quite good, Blazing Star is a must play.  Probably one of the few games to really utilize the Neo's power.  Give it a try on MAME, its really fun and looks fantastic.  NeoGeo also has Viewpoint, a nice looking game that's not for the easily frustrated. 

I can recomend those shmups as well for the neo i have them.

Pulstar:One of the best r-type clones i've ever played beside being pattern based.

Blazeing Star:Pretty good shooter not to hard to beat.. with it's unlimted continues unless your trying to 1cc it.

View Point:One of the hardest shmups i've ever played on my, NeoGeo. Still i keep trying since, it has a great soundtrack beside the way the game is set.

[Tatsujin]

The best shooter system, IMO, is probably Saturn. Not just because of RS, but also DoDonPachi, the Gradius, Salamander, and Parodius packs, Thundeforce V, Batsugun, etc.

in that case, it have to be the PS2, since it not just plays its own shooters, but also the whole and huge PSone repertoire!!

[SignOfZeta]

Are there any shmups for the Neo geo? I can't remember any off the top of my head...

Pulstar and Blazing Star are both amazing. They need to be seen to be believed. I like the Areofighters games quite a  bit, and also Prehistoric Isle too. Last Resort is very good, although probably too hard to actually play.

[SignOfZeta]

If I could only have 3 "shmup consoles" they would be:
1. PCE
2. Saturn
3. PS2

PS2? Seriously? Well I guess the Cave factor is huge, but does it make up for the fact that the number of shooters on PS2 isn't very large, and most of them are on DC?

[Tatsujin]

PS2? Seriously?

PS2 = PS2 & PSone

[TR0N]

Bump! I can't beleave nobody recomend Twinklestar Sprites for the Neo.

Sure it can be found on the, Saturn and the DC.. but least it's in english for the NeoGeo.

Still TSS is more fun when it's a 2p match.

[Joe Redifer]

I'd like to say that Aero Blasters is not a Neo Geo game.

I'd also like to say that magazines like EGM and GamePro used to BITCH CONSTANTLY back in the day with quips like "Another shooter for the Genesis" or "I wish the Genesis would release a game that wasn't a shooter" (I'm paraphrasing, but they really did bitch about the Genesis having too many shooters, and this was before games like Lightening Force came out).

Lastly I'd like to say that Wings of Wor is vastly underrated.  This game kicks ass!

[Kitsunexus]

Among others the Neo Geo has Pulstar and Blazing Star.  They are both quite good, Blazing Star is a must play.  NeoGeo also has Viewpoint, a nice looking game that's not for the easily frustrated. 

Yes and yes.


BTW, the ultimate system for SHMUPs is the PC, because if you name it, it's most likely emulated.

[runinruder]

Lastly I'd like to say that Wings of Wor is vastly underrated.  This game kicks ass!

Hell yeah, it's definitely one of my favorite shooters.  Brilliant soundtrack, LOTS of bullets, and stage 5 is absolutely freakin' unforgettable.

[GUTS]

Blazing Star is the greatest horizontal shooter ever created.  That game is pure brilliance in every possible way.

[Tatsujin]

i really don't like its to much use of pre-render objects and BGs.

[Joe Redifer]

I'd love to play through Blazing Star, but I agree that I don't like pre-rendered graphics like Donkey Kong Country.

Is stage 5 of Wings of Wor the inside of that thingy where it's moving and convulsing and the like?  I played through it about 6 months ago and can't remember if that was stage 5 or 6.  The boss designs in that game are insane!  A train/boat with a head?  Awesome!

[Keranu]

I love Wings of Wor, but I hated that damn body level and that's the highlite for most people. It looked cool, but it made things way too hard for me to see. The bosses in that game are so awesome.

[Joe Redifer]

If the game was exactly like that on the Turbo you'd love that level!

[SuperDeadite]

If I could only have 3 "shmup consoles" they would be:
1. PCE
2. Saturn
3. PS2

PS2? Seriously? Well I guess the Cave factor is huge, but does it make up for the fact that the number of shooters on PS2 isn't very large, and most of them are on DC?

Here's the lineup of the two systems:
DC:                                                  PS2:
1. Bangai-oh                                      1. Baldr Force EXE
2. Baldr Force EXE                              2. Do Don Pachi Dai Ou Jou
3. Chaos Field                                    3. Espgaluda
4. GigaWing                                       4. Ibara
5. GigaWing II                                    5. Mushihimesama
6. GunSpike/Cannon Spike                    6. Psyvariar Complete
7. Gun Bird II                                     7. Psyvariar II Ultimate Final
8. Ikaruga                                         8. Homura
9. Last Hope                                     9.  Gradius V
10. Mars Matrix                                 10. GigaWing Generations
11. Psyvariar 2                                  11. Twinkle Star Sprites: La Petite Princess (includes the AES version too)
12. Radiligy                                      12. Raiden III
13. Rainbow Cotton                           13. Shikigami No Shiro
14. Rez                                           14. Shikigami No Shiro II
15. Trizeal                                       15. Rez
16. Twinkle Star Sprites                     16. Trizeal
17. Zero Gunner II                            17. Chaos Field: New Order
18. Border Down                               18. Radiligy Precious
19. Shikigami No Shiro II                     19. R-Type Final
20. Karasu                                       20. Gunbird 1 & 2
21. Trigger Heart Excelica                   21. Strikers 1945 Parts I & II
22. Under Defeat                              22. Sol Divide & Dragon Blaze
23. Macross M3 (only certain levels)     23. Star Soldier
                                                     24. Sengoku Aces & Sengoku Blade

So as you can see they are about equal in numbers.  I'm probably missing some more PS2 games.  I'm also not counting things like Metal Slug, Contra Shattered Soldier and all the retro releases like Sega Ages (I can't wait for the Galaxy Force 2 release) and Taito Memories.

And as already stated the PS2 plays PS1 games, so Raiden Project, R-Type Delta, Zanac X Zanac, Gradius Gaiden, Geppy-X, Einhander, and many more are also available.