Why the PCE? Why Not the Genesis or SNES???

[spenoza]

As soon as you type or say "haters gonna/gotta hate" for any purpose other than to mock the phrase, you instantly lower your IQ by 15 points. Those are the rules the universe plays by. Who are we to dissent?

That is a pretty kick-ass MD track, though. It's one of the best I've heard and does stuff I didn't know the MD could do. When I looked up some more of his stuff on YouTube, though, I wasn't as impressed.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I am convinced if you took something ho-hum/bland and said Tim Folin made it, Tats would go OMGrorgogGO TEH FOLIN IS GOD.

[Tatsujin]

try me

[Tatsujin]

As soon as you type or say "haters gonna/gotta hate" for any purpose other than to mock the phrase, you instantly lower your IQ by 15 points. Those are the rules the universe plays by. Who are we to dissent?

Yeah, it's not exactly the phrase I usually like to use as well, but sometimes you have to bit of overreacting to get the required attention ;)

That is a pretty kick-ass MD track, though. It's one of the best I've heard and does stuff I didn't know the MD could do.

Indeed it is. And just imagine that it is his first and only ever try on that machine. In an interview he said, that he doesn't really like that machine for its undersophicated music capabilities (may be he refers to the very white noisy FM and stuff). But he tried the best possible to do with. I think, mission accomplished.

When I looked up some more of his stuff on YouTube, though, I wasn't as impressed.

For what stuff did you looked up?

[OldRover]

Even geniuses have their bad days.

[Tatsujin]

Made a yu0vid of one of my fav Tim Tunes

It is an unused tune from the game LED Storm. Great Bassline!
I wish they would have put it into the final game.

[_Paul]

He did great things with the Amiga LED Storm also. Share the Tim love!

The Coral Sea tune has an almost PC Engine quality to it.

[Tatsujin]

Yeah, love Tim's CUS of Amiga L.E.D. Storm. Very dream BGM, lissened many many hours to it in my childhood (especially intro and high-score), still do today

[Arkhan Asylum]

try me

well when I pointed out that he fucked up GnG on Amiga pretty bad, your reply was something along the lines of

WHO CARES HES SO GREAT THE BEST TUNES EVARRRRR

etc. etc.

[Tatsujin]

You pointed it out? Right. Just because you don't like it doesn't automatically mean it is completely messed up unusable utterly crap!

I like some of the G'n'G tracks. They are very raw and have that fearing undergroundish atmosphere. Especially the last level.

We can argue now about its sound quality in general. but from a composing point of view, a can't see much wrong with it.

[Joe Redifer]

That is a pretty kick-ass MD track, though. It's one of the best I've heard and does stuff I didn't know the MD could do.

Like what?  I didn't hear anything that I hadn't heard the Genesis do before.  The melody is great, though!

[spenoza]

That is a pretty kick-ass MD track, though. It's one of the best I've heard and does stuff I didn't know the MD could do.

Like what?  I didn't hear anything that I hadn't heard the Genesis do before.  The melody is great, though!

His guitar synth sound sounds better (perhaps due some some of the modulation) than any other guitar synth I've heard on the MD.

[Tatsujin]

here's also a straight mp3 DL for the time trax tune (for those wo are interested):

_{► /mp3s/MEGADRIVE+Time+Trax+Title.mp3}

It is known that this only tune was recorded on a MD model 2. Wonder of how different it would sound on a model 1

[Arkhan Asylum]

You pointed it out? Right. Just because you don't like it doesn't automatically mean it is completely messed up unusable utterly crap!

I like some of the G'n'G tracks. They are very raw and have that fearing undergroundish atmosphere. Especially the last level.

We can argue now about its sound quality in general. but from a composing point of view, a can't see much wrong with it.

He didn't compose the tracks he butchered.  All he had to do was pick the right instrumentation and he didn't.

[Tatsujin]

You pointed it out? Right. Just because you don't like it doesn't automatically mean it is completely messed up unusable utterly crap!

I like some of the G'n'G tracks. They are very raw and have that fearing undergroundish atmosphere. Especially the last level.

We can argue now about its sound quality in general. but from a composing point of view, a can't see much wrong with it.

He didn't compose the tracks he butchered.  All he had to do was pick the right instrumentation and he didn't.

He quite composed all the tracks from very scratch. Can't you hear the difference between hims and the originals in terms of the compositions?
Only Level 2 & 4 are taken over from the original and even there he extended the songs to like tripple of the original length throwing his very own compositions in.
 
That tells me quite clear, that you barely lissened to them really.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Who cares if he tripled the length?  That just means he butchers it even longer. 

I played through the first 4 levels of GnG on Amiga and thought the music was complete crap.

Compared to the SGX version, its a joke. A victim of sampling disasters.

Just like R-Type.

[Tatsujin]

As I just said on the previous page, we can argue on the quality concerning the samples the tunes are made of, but I can't see much wrong on the composition side. This was your point, that he didn't composed them, but on which you are wrong, since he took over not even 15% of the original tracks content overall.

[_Paul]

I feel a Wibble special on Amiga Ghouls 'n' Ghosts coming on...

[Mathius]

I feel a Wibble special on Amiga Ghouls 'n' Ghosts coming on...

You should

[_Paul]

I feel a Wibble special on Amiga Ghouls 'n' Ghosts coming on...

You should

I will.

[Tatsujin]

I feel a Wibble special on Amiga Ghouls 'n' Ghosts coming on...

You should

I will.

Ark will fall in a hole

[SuperDeadite]

I loved playing Lemmings and Apprentice on my friend's Amiga back in the day. 
But other then that, I've really never understood the appeal of that computer.

[Tatsujin]

I loved playing Lemmings and Apprentice on my friend's Amiga back in the day. 
But other then that, I've really never understood the appeal of that computer.

Proably you should have played others than just lemmings and apprentice then?

[SuperDeadite]

But there was Lemmings, then Oh No More Lemmings!, then Lemmings 2 The Tribes.
After that We had NES, Sega Genesis, and a 486 with Doom.  Doom>Amiga

[_Paul]

Compared to their console counterparts, most Amiga games were rubbish. But I loved the machine to bits because you really had the ability to create on it - DPaint, Amos, MED etc...all brilliant bits of software. And the PD scene allowed you to really share your work for the first time. That's what made it a winner for me.

[Joe Redifer]

I was generally fascinated with the Amiga because of the Video Toaster and Lightwave 3D.  But when I finally borrowed my friend's Amiga for a while I was like "WTF is this trash?"  And yes, it had Lightwave and The Video Toaster.

[esteban]

I feel a Wibble special on Amiga Ghouls 'n' Ghosts coming on...

Heck yeah!

[CrackTiger]

Whether it really is good or not, European game musicians seemed to love the kind of arpeggio that hurts my ears.

An example of nice arpeggio on Turbo/PCE is the Somer Assault/Mesopotamia soundtrack.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I totally loved cocked up "recompositions" of songs, complete with gay sampled guitars where applicable.  I mean I guess it's cool for a title tune, sort of.  If you like guitars that sound like a toy.

They're SO GREAT CAUSE TIIIIIIIIIM FOLIN MADED THEM.

And what the hell is this about?  The first level omits the classic tune that gets you pumped for your epic adventure...... and replaces it with some repetitive background noise.

All of the Amiga tracks lack that eerie horror movie vibe that was present even in the NES GAME.   It's replaced by stupid peppy nonsense and whatever else you want to call it.

Maybe if the stuff wasn't in Ghouls n Ghosts it would be ok.  It doesn't fit the game at all and just sounds like Tim being full of himself and taking artistic liberties since everyone verbally strokes the guy off.  IM TIM FOLLIN, THEYLL LOVE IT.

As for the Amiga, I've had a bunch of Amigas over the years.  The exclusives aren't worth a damn and the rest of the stuff is better elsewhere.  Too many games are up to jump, one button centric disasters because of stupidity.  Some games support multi button, but the majority... nope.  You are atari-joysticking that crap.

and I stress the term crap.  

When you've got a PCE+CD and a Sega Genesis + CD, what the hell do you need an Amiga for besides a doorstop?


EDIT:

See, why the hell didn't he just do this again, with better instruments?

But this in no way saves the game itself which is another WHERE ARE THE FUCKING SOUND EFFECTS AT disasters.   If I recall correctly that is.   I don't remember there being SFX on the C64 one, to my disappointment.

and I believe the first tune sounded like reggae, and then I shut that crap off and played Temple of apshai.

[_Paul]

Maybe if the stuff wasn't in Ghouls n Ghosts it would be ok.  

I hated when home computer games changed the arcade soundtracks (which happened a lot). Now it's easier to separate the music from the titles and appreciate them more for what they are.

When you've got a PCE+CD and a Sega Genesis + CD, what the hell do you need an Amiga for besides a doorstop?

Homebrew!

[Arkhan Asylum]

When you want to hear this

and you get this:

You start to understand how shit like this:

happened

[SaturdayMorningRobots]

The Amiga was better for 3d games, Star Glider (Think Star Fox where you could fly between planets and even melt your ship if you flew too close to the sun.) and F-18 hornet were both pretty great for their time.

Mostly I used my A2000 for 2d animation (Deluxe paint 4 and Disney animation studio) And stuck to my Duo and SNES for gaming.

[Arkhan Asylum]

There arent alot of 3D amiga games that are really worth the time, esp. considering setting one up is a pain in the ass.

[SignOfZeta]

The Amiga was better for 3d games...

...what?

[Mathius]

The Amiga was better for 3d games...

...what?

Maybe he is thinking the Amiga CD32?

[nat]

When you want to hear this

I don't know that I've ever actually heard this, but GODDAMN what an awful racket that is. Any semblance of melody is lost in the abrasive FM cacophony. If this is what people considered "good" video game music, it's no wonder the Turbo ended up becoming my console of choice.

Thank god for the SuperGrafx and SNES renditions.

and you get this:

This one is even worse, however. This isn't actually a song or even what I might consider "music," it's just ambient noise.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I don't know that I've ever actually heard this, but GODDAMN what an awful racket that is. Any semblance of melody is lost in the abrasive FM cacophony. If this is what people considered "good" video game music, it's no wonder the Turbo ended up becoming my console of choice.

agreed, that version is a little tinny.  The actual arcade isn't that bad so I think maybe it was a bad output.

The SGFX version is undoubtedly the best rendition of the classic "oh shit, zombies and satan just stole my hoe" tune.

but, I couldnt find it and I am lazy.

as for the ambient noise:


ITS BY THE LEGENDLY TIM FOLIN.  YOU MUST LOVE IT OR DIE.

or whatever.

[Joe Redifer]

I don't know why you quoted Ghosts & Goblins arcade when you should have quoted Ghouls 'n Ghosts arcade.  Nat, Ghouls sounds millions of times better than Ghosts in the arcade, but I agree, Ghosts sounds like crusty anus.  The Genesis version of Ghouls sounds great as well (and in my opinion substantially better than the Supergrafx version).

I do agree, though, that just about every creative effort from Europe back in those days was trash.  They've gotten much better over the years.  Brits made Burnout Paradise and that game rocks my socks!

[Arkhan Asylum]

OH, I did ghosts and goblins?  Fuck man I wasn't awake, they all look the same when you've just crawled out of bed to come flail around on the internets.

woops

There we go.

mmmmm.

There weren't alot of euro games that I recall being great fun on these old systems.   I notice though that the trend seems to be, if the game is some original idea, its pretty good.

If its an a port of a Japanese game (R Type), or an attempted-in-the-style-of (Menace), you end up with

WHAT THE HELL WERE THEY THINKING


The original ideas, like Parallax... yeah those turned out nice.

[SaturdayMorningRobots]

The Amiga was better for 3d games...

...what?

Maybe he is thinking the Amiga CD32?

Nope plain old floppy games on an Amiga 2000. Those were the only 2 3d games I had though. The others were all crap like Police quest

[Arkhan Asylum]

The Amiga had some cool 3D games like Stuntcar Racer, Robocop, and some others.  Amiga *did* do neat 3D stuff.

if our friends in .JP would have gotten into Amiga dev bitd, I bet we'd have some insanely fucking awesome games on the Amiga.

Instead we got games that are better on Sega because THERE IS MORE THAN ONE BUTTON.

[_Paul]

The Amiga had some cool 3D games like Stuntcar Racer, Robocop, and some others.  Amiga *did* do neat 3D stuff.

if our friends in .JP would have gotten into Amiga dev bitd, I bet we'd have some insanely fucking awesome games on the Amiga.

Instead we got games that are better on Sega because THERE IS MORE THAN ONE BUTTON.

If you plugged in a Mega Drive / Master System pad to an Amiga, some games used the second button. (Few, but some)

[Tatsujin]

The Amiga had some cool 3D games like Stuntcar Racer, Robocop, and some others.  Amiga *did* do neat 3D stuff.

if our friends in .JP would have gotten into Amiga dev bitd, I bet we'd have some insanely fucking awesome games on the Amiga.

Instead we got games that are better on Sega because THERE IS MORE THAN ONE BUTTON.

If you plugged in a Mega Drive / Master System pad to an Amiga, some games used the second button. (Few, but some)

Turrican II and PC Kid FTW.

[esteban]

Wow. All I can say (to the haters):

[reading]

If you can find a tiny nook (or cranny) in your heart to appreciate music that strays from your "standards" (including your hated platforms/composers), you just might be surprised with what you enjoy!

Personally, I am glad that, occasionally, folks do more than simply acting as a photocopier and cloning. A long time ago I wrote about the problem of "monoculture" in the video game world (when a game is released for several platforms and nearly identical for each). I  know, I know: this is a hallmark of our modern gaming era. I understand why corporations want their games to offer a "standardized product" and provide a "uniform experience" to the customers, but I can't help but wonder if we (video game players) have lost something in return for this "standardized product".

I love the variation and experimentation that occurred back in the day. I know, I'm the crazy one

[/reading]

This philosophy applies to music as well as games. Variety is the spice of life, as they say. Especially now, from our vantage point as lovers of video game stuff.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Turrican II and PC Kid FTW.

Sucks and Better on the PCE ftw.


the fact that the amiga didn't take that quantum leap to multi-buttons as standard really says alot about how those retards view the concept of gaming.

[Mathius]

Very well said Esteban! I have actually written a few gaming publications discussing the fall of variation among the same games across different platforms. It's truly a bygone era.

[Joe Redifer]

This philosophy applies to music as well as games. Variety is the spice of life, as they say. Especially now, from our vantage point as lovers of video game stuff.

But if composers completely change the soundtrack with 100% different music that was in the arcade, then the same argument can be applied for the graphics, level design, gameplay, etc.  Hell, it could be Ghouls 'n Ghosts in name only but in fact we're driving a race car shooting aliens to a techno beat.  When it comes to arcade translations, they need to stick to the arcade, pure and simple.  There should not be a completely detached and irrelevant substituted soundtrack.  Arrangement is one thing.  Obliteration is quite another.  The fact is, people like Tim Follin were more interested in making original compositions to say "Hey look at meeeee!" than they were in retaining the original feeling of the arcade.

[TurboXray]

If you plugged in a Mega Drive / Master System pad to an Amiga, some games used the second button. (Few, but some)


 
Turrican II and PC Kid FTW.

You mean BC-Kid. And it's a second rate Bonks Adventure game. I recently played through it on the Amiga.The game plays more like Bonk 2 in Bonk 1 maps. The spin attack is faster akin to bonk 1 than Bonk 2, but it has none of the effected attack ability of Bonk 1. So it's useless for an attack method.

[Mathius]

This philosophy applies to music as well as games. Variety is the spice of life, as they say. Especially now, from our vantage point as lovers of video game stuff.

But if composers completely change the soundtrack with 100% different music that was in the arcade, then the same argument can be applied for the graphics, level design, gameplay, etc.  Hell, it could be Ghouls 'n Ghosts in name only but in fact we're driving a race car shooting aliens to a techno beat.  When it comes to arcade translations, they need to stick to the arcade, pure and simple.  There should not be a completely detached and irrelevant substituted soundtrack.  Arrangement is one thing.  Obliteration is quite another.  The fact is, people like Matt Furnace were more interested in making original compositions to say "Hey look at meeeee!" than they were in retaining the original feeling of the arcade.

Some of the greatest games of all time started out in the arcades, but when moving to the lesser powered consoles they flowered into something greater. Ninja Gaiden, Bionic Commando, and Punch Out!! come to mind. Of course, I am sure there are some non-NES games that fall into that category. I think.

But, on the flip side some things that aren't broken should remain unchanged. G 'n G really didn't need an ambient soundtrack, although I can see where they were trying to go with it. G 'n G is all about pulse pounding gonna die any second now action. Not quite survival horror.

I really do admire Tim Follin for the work he has done on other projects though. Silver Surfer has some of the best chip tunes I have ever heard in my life! He took the "boops" and "beeps" of the Spectrum and injected Bionic Commando with a simply fantastic score far removed from the arcade original's. Some of his more experimental stuff may not have worked out so well, but I can't fault the guy. He's only human.

[spenoza]

If there's one thing I think we can all agree upon, the NES's inability to produce arcade accurate ports forced some developers to work hard and, in the process, create better games. In addition to Mathius's list I should add Double Dragon 3. I really wish the PCE had seen more improved ports in the same vein.