Why the PCE? Why Not the Genesis or SNES???

[Arkhan Asylum]

If you plugged in a Mega Drive / Master System pad to an Amiga, some games used the second button. (Few, but some)


 
Turrican II and PC Kid FTW.

You mean BC-Kid. And it's a second rate Bonks Adventure game. I recently played through it on the Amiga.The game plays more like Bonk 2 in Bonk 1 maps. The spin attack is faster akin to bonk 1 than Bonk 2, but it has none of the effected attack ability of Bonk 1. So it's useless for an attack method.

dont forget, the music for it is annoying and awful compared to the PCE.  Its like, european caveman music.  and they used some weird color choices that makes the whole game look kind of dim.   The Amiga has more colors and yet they somehow managed to make the game less vibrant.   Good job, idiots.

[Tatsujin]

lol, did anyone ever came across an arky not ranting about anything? Extremely rare case in my book.

I hope he's not such a grumpy person in RL.

[_Paul]

lol, did anyone ever came across an arky not ranting about anything? Extremely rare case in my book.

I hope he's not such a grumpy person in RL.

He's just very passionate about things! Without that passion we might not have Aetherbyte and the universal amount of obey would be lower than it is now.

[TurboXray]

If you plugged in a Mega Drive / Master System pad to an Amiga, some games used the second button. (Few, but some)


 
Turrican II and PC Kid FTW.

You mean BC-Kid. And it's a second rate Bonks Adventure game. I recently played through it on the Amiga.The game plays more like Bonk 2 in Bonk 1 maps. The spin attack is faster akin to bonk 1 than Bonk 2, but it has none of the effected attack ability of Bonk 1. So it's useless for an attack method.

dont forget, the music for it is annoying and awful compared to the PCE.  Its like, european caveman music.  and they used some weird color choices that makes the whole game look kind of dim.   The Amiga has more colors and yet they somehow managed to make the game less vibrant.   Good job, idiots.

Yeah, the music is a lot like the Chuck Rock series. Probably why they changed it (to make it seem more familiar to that series). After playing through the game, it's.... OK. That is, if you never played the original. Otherwise it can't compare to the original musics. I could only get the game to run in PAL mode (A600), but it does support 2 button. The colors are actually reduced from the original, which is kind of interesting because the original never looked like it was pushing a lot of colors (missing different colored enemies, none of them turn stone color when frozen by advance bonk ground attack, some different colored background blocks, etc). But they added 'copper' graphics to make up for it Some of the softer palette choices did look nice. Also, quite a but of the sprites are from Bonk 2 which is weird. Maybe Bonk 2 had too much colors for the base model Amiga to handle (half-brite mode eats a lot of cpu memory bandwidth for old models like the A500/1000 that don't have fastram) and so they decided to go with the first bank. It's not a bad game, but it's not refined as the original. You can still milk enemies for points in the Amiga version, you just can't do it via the spin attack.

[soop]

As for the Amiga, I've had a bunch of Amigas over the years.  The exclusives aren't worth a damn and the rest of the stuff is better elsewhere.  Too many games are up to jump, one button centric disasters because of stupidity.  Some games support multi button, but the majority... nope.  You are atari-joysticking that crap.

and I stress the term crap. 

When you've got a PCE+CD and a Sega Genesis + CD, what the hell do you need an Amiga for besides a doorstop?

Really don't understand the Amiga hate.  It's spiritually the closest machine to the PCE IMO.  Conversions of PC Kid, Bomberman, Rainbow Islands, Parasol stars, NewZealand story etc, that are all closer to the PCE than anything else, and in some cases better.

Compared to their console counterparts, most Amiga games were rubbish. But I loved the machine to bits because you really had the ability to create on it - DPaint, Amos, MED etc...all brilliant bits of software. And the PD scene allowed you to really share your work for the first time. That's what made it a winner for me.

I agree, I think my life would be very different if it wasn't for the Amiga.  It enabled me to start coding, producing graphics, etc etc all off my own back.  But while I'd agree that most games were rubbish, I'd argue that it has as many good games as all the other systems at the time, just by virtue of volume and time.  Plus it originated some classic titles such as Worms, Lemmings, Turrican, Cannon Fodder, Sensible Soccer etc.

Personally, I could list 100's of games worth playing on the Amiga, but the truth is, while I have a special place in my heart for both the Amiga and the PCE, I'm not going to go out of my way to hate any particular system on principle.  If I like a system, I'll try and get it, and my favorite games for it, if I don't, I won't bother.

And if a game is better on, say the Megadrive than the PCE, I won't stick with the PCE one because it's my favorite system, I'll shop around.

So while I agree that each system has it's pros and cons, I have no particular need to attack one because I dislike it (Jaguar and CDI for me).  Someone else does, and their reasons are likely perfectly valid.

[SaturdayMorningRobots]

Really don't understand the Amiga hate.

I love the Amiga, As a computer. To this day I still use Caligari Truespace which got started on Amiga as Caligari, As well as Mirage which IMO is a spiritual descendant of Deluxe paint 4. Amiga basiically created the 3D special effects industry for Television, and Lightwave's continued wide spread use is a testament to the Amiga's lasting influence.

As a gaming machine... ah well it sure beat the hell out of an IBM PC of the same era.

[nat]

I dig the Amiga as a computer as well, but I prefer the Apple IIGS.

[esteban]

I dig the Amiga as a computer as well, but I prefer the Apple IIGS.

I played about a million hours of Pirates! and Dungeon Master for IIGS, for starters...

This philosophy applies to music as well as games. Variety is the spice of life, as they say. Especially now, from our vantage point as lovers of video game stuff.

But if composers completely change the soundtrack with 100% different music that was in the arcade, then the same argument can be applied for the graphics, level design, gameplay, etc.  Hell, it could be Ghouls 'n Ghosts in name only but in fact we're driving a race car shooting aliens to a techno beat.  When it comes to arcade translations, they need to stick to the arcade, pure and simple.  There should not be a completely detached and irrelevant substituted soundtrack.  Arrangement is one thing.  Obliteration is quite another.  The fact is, people like Tim Follin were more interested in making original compositions to say "Hey look at meeeee!" than they were in retaining the original feeling of the arcade.

I respectfully disagree with you. A straight arcade port was not necessarily the wisest strategy, especially considering the hardware capabilities at the time.

But, for the sake of argument, let's assume a "pure" arcade port was feasible... I still appreciate when alterations/modifications/variations/etc. are made when a game is ported. These alterations, however subtle or egregious,  for better or for worse, provide a rich, interesting range of fruit to be sampled.

Sure, some of the fruit is rotten. But you can't truly appreciate the sweet flesh without some rotten crud.

Yes, I want some variety. I don't want to hear 99.44% identical songs.

Word up.

[Joe Redifer]

If you want some variety, you wouldn't buy the same game for a bunch of different platforms.  I always find it interesting to see how each system handles an arcade translation, but when they don't even bother and just change it completely, that tells me that they couldn't handle it.  Why don't they chang the stage graphics to be outer-space as well?  After all you want some variety!

[nat]

A perfect example of this is Super R-Type on the SNES. It seems like they went in with the intention of doing a straight port of R-Type 2, but because of the SNES limitations (slowdown issues, etc) they ended up completely changing a couple of the levels. What you ended up with was a loose port of R-Type 2 with 2 of the later levels completely changed and a new (superfluous) level tacked on the beginning of the game.

[_Paul]

I have a theory that back in the days of the Spectrum and C64, the only access they had to the games they were converting was to go down to the local arcade and play them, then write their own version from memory. Of course, some games would not have the sound on, or be a bit quiet, meaning that the musicians either had to invent their own tunes or come up with incomplete versions (Out Run, Rastan..). This would explain a lot  O:)

[SuperPlay]

Why the PCE? Why Not the Genesis or Snes???

Back in the day I had used to work at a console importer here in the UK, so I had access to pretty much every console that came along.  And as such most of my wages also went this way ;-)

To be honest the reason why I am continuing my PCE collection rather than focusing on the other systems is for a few reasons:

* Must OBEY PCE!

* I just think that the design of the unit and the cards is awesome

* I lost my back job in the day (Company closed) so I had to sell my PCE collection at the time and I missed it ;-)

* The PCE has a bit more of a wow factor with friends who only know of the mainstream consoles such as Genesis and Snes.

[_Paul]

Back in the day I had used to work at a console importer here in the UK,

Which one?

[SuperPlay]

Console Concepts (PC Engine Supplies)

Which one?[/quote]

[SignOfZeta]

I have a theory that back in the days of the Spectrum and C64, the only access they had to the games they were converting was to go down to the local arcade and play them, then write their own version from memory. Of course, some games would not have the sound on, or be a bit quiet, meaning that the musicians either had to invent their own tunes or come up with incomplete versions (Out Run, Rastan..). This would explain a lot  O:)

I'm pretty sure this was the case with a lot of ports in the early 80s.

[_Paul]

Console Concepts (PC Engine Supplies)

Heh, I think I still have one of your newsletters somewhere (cover- 'The creature that ate Concole Concepts' I think, unless I'm getting you mixed up with another company)!
You probably knew of my friend Chris, he used to buy tons of PCE stuff back in the day.

[OldMan]

I have a theory that back in the days of the Spectrum and C64, the only access they had to the games they were converting was to go down to the local arcade and play them

Probably not, but it may have been easier to do that way.
A LOT of those games were in assembler, and it's very raer to find a good programer who knows two different assembly languages, and can convert one to the other. I doubt the arcade versions were done on 6502 compatible cpus...

And having access to the original assembler source-code probably wasn't much help, anyway. Well, except for figuring out some basic structure.

[Joe Redifer]

A perfect example of this is Super R-Type on the SNES.

Excellent example.  But see what they did there?  They called it Super R-Type instead of R-Type 2.  If they had called G&G for the Commodore Ghouls & Ghosts Legends or some shit like that, nobody would have complained about any differences they chose to put in there because it would be seen as a mostly original game unto itself.

[CrackTiger]

A perfect example of this is Super R-Type on the SNES.

Excellent example.  But see what they did there?  They called it Super R-Type instead of R-Type 2.  If they had called G&G for the Commodore Ghouls & Ghosts Legends or some shit like that, nobody would have complained about any differences they chose to put in there because it would be seen as a mostly original game unto itself.

Like Super Darius II or even Super Darius to a lesser extent. Darius Plus didn't offer anything unique, but it did have two less screens of play area. ;) Even the split PCE R-Type chapters added something to the title to indicate that the content was different.

[Tatsujin]

So why didn't they call Gradius III = Super Gradius, or Final Fight = Final Fight 1/2? Following by that same rule, they must have do this, since the content is quite different to the original.

[Arkhan Asylum]

lol, did anyone ever came across an arky not ranting about anything? Extremely rare case in my book.

I hope he's not such a grumpy person in RL.

You call it ranting, I call it going against the grain.  I don't care if the Amiga / C64 were the most popular at the time and everyone touches themselves to the games.  I don't like them and I'm not afraid to say it.  I have enough experience with the both of them to be justified in my criticism.  I spent around ... hmm.  7 years playing C64/Amiga extensively, not including the 5ish years we had an Amiga growing up.

As for the Amiga, I've had a bunch of Amigas over the years.  The exclusives aren't worth a damn and the rest of the stuff is better elsewhere.  Too many games are up to jump, one button centric disasters because of stupidity.  Some games support multi button, but the majority... nope.  You are atari-joysticking that crap.

and I stress the term crap. 

When you've got a PCE+CD and a Sega Genesis + CD, what the hell do you need an Amiga for besides a doorstop?

Really don't understand the Amiga hate.  It's spiritually the closest machine to the PCE IMO.  Conversions of PC Kid, Bomberman, Rainbow Islands, Parasol stars, NewZealand story etc, that are all closer to the PCE than anything else, and in some cases better.

There are no PCE games on the Amiga that are better than the PCE ones.   I hope that's the meth talking.

The Amiga controller setup is retarded.  The hardware itself is a bit of a pain in the ass.  Try running A500 games on an A4000.  Its fun. Not really.

The action games seem forced, or generic (Menace, lol), the conversions usually have coked out European disaster soundtracks instead of the real tunes.  The hardware is overpriced for what gaming you will get out of it.  All of the RPGs are western style, and that sucks even though theyre fun.  There isnt enough variety in them.

All of these RPGs are accessible on the PC also, and really, they are much simpler to get going.  Use an MT-32, and you have just destroyed Paula, that stupid whore.

The Amiga boasted really nice graphics.  *really* nice ones.   The games themselves however, are rarely as great as people make them out to be. 

especially BC kid.  What the hell were they doing when they made that.  Like I said before they somehow managed to make it look worse on the Amiga despite it having 3500something extra colors.  The sky should have been the limit in porting it.  More shading/detail, parallax out the ass.  None of it happened.  Its washed out and crappy looking.   then you have to listen to some awful congo music, and then you wonder why you are playing it on an overpriced computer that takes up more space than a betamax VCR, when you could play it on a nice, sexy PCE.

Find me an Amiga game that is on par with Lords of Thunder, Sapphire, or Cotton.   I bet you can't.

[Joe Redifer]

So why didn't they call Gradius III = Super Gradius, or Final Fight = Final Fight 1/2? Following by that same rule, they must have do this, since the content is quite different to the original.

I have no clue what Gradius 3 is like in the arcades nor do I really care, but Final Fight should not be renamed.  It tries to be like the arcade but system limitations forced them to leave some crap out.  The soundtrack is the same from what I recall (only SNES-ized).  Any actual differences are not as significant than a completely redone soundtrack by some random guy.

[spenoza]

You know, honestly, the companies which licensed the porting/reprogramming duties to these Euro dev houses are just as much to blame. Their contracts should have included the right of review and approval.

[esteban]

If you want some variety, you wouldn't buy the same game for a bunch of different platforms.  I always find it interesting to see how each system handles an arcade translation, but when they don't even bother and just change it completely, that tells me that they couldn't handle it.  Why don't they chang the stage graphics to be outer-space as well?  After all you want some variety!

I hear you, and I do not disagree with you... it's just that I thought you appreciated the variety (see below) because we benefit from it.

Yes, as a person obsessed with video games, I enjoy the nuanced (and not so nunaced) differences between various versions/ports of the same game. Remember, I am talking from the vantage point of someone who will EVENTUALLY try multiple versions of a game because I have nothing better to do.

I will certainly LISTEN to most, if not all, of the music offered by these multiple versions.

From this vantage point, I don't want too many clones/duplicates, because then I have fewer things to listen to.

I have a disease, Joe. So do you.

[CGQuarterly]

To answer the original question...

I never had a Turbo back in the day, but to me the 16-bit era was the golden age of gaming.  I was in high school at the time, and I was all about the Genesis, my computer, and regular trips to the arcade.  So needless to say, I really like playing games from that period.

I've been collecting games for about 12 or so years, so by this point I've played (or am at least familiar with) most games on the SNES and Genesis that are worth playing.  I've dipped my toe in the TurboGrafx pool before, but now I have more disposable income than I once did, and one of the first things that I bought was a Duo-R from doujindance.  I also have a PCE flash cart, but I like collecting the real games so I don't use it very much.  My point is that now I have this whole new huge selection of games that I have not only never played, but many that I have never even heard of (on the PCE side of things).  So even though the console is over 20 years old, to me it almost feels like a brand new system, and that feels exciting because I look forward to exploring its library. 

I certainly don't play my PCE *instead* of the Genesis or SNES, but for me right now it is a lot more fun to play and collect for.  That being said, I love my other two 16-bit systems and would never want to give them up.

Chris

[thesteve]

i prefer my turbo to my other systems because before the 3D revolution games were built more around playability, not just rendering.
i loved the Atari 2600 and Sega master system as well